Why Not Tax Religions?, page 3

reply to post by jd140

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I said that to annoy you, i edited it quickly because i realised it was the wrong thing to do. I apologise for that comment, my post was edited very quickly with my real belief.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

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I wasn't responding to you. It was to someone else.

I think after reading your latest responses, it's time to leave this thread. You are pointing out one group from dozens of tax-exempt groups under US tax law and asking why they would be exempt simply because you don't like them.

Personally, I don't find coin collectors appealing. I believe all coin collecting organizations should lose their exempt status because of my personal bias. Doesn't that sound silly? Honestly?

Lose your bias.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by jd140

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Charities are often set up to comment on politics. Pro life and pro choice organisations are common place. Religion has other interests at it's heart. There is the differece. It is not religion bashing but i'm sure you wish to point to it as that. It is simple logic. Religion is set up to change peoples religious beliefs, the ones that are supposed to be separate from church and state. Charities commenting on religion are set up to do that and not change peoples religious beliefs. If they are trying to change religious beliefs then they should not get tax exempt status.

Church and state should be separate, so why allow tax exempt status.

You have yet to come up with a good reason they should have tax exempt status, please take a proper shot at it. This is not bashing religion, you can believe whatever you like.

[edit on 4-6-2009 by ImaginaryReality1984]

Taxes are paid to the state and federal government. So by them not paying taxes they are going with the seperation of church and state.

You don't want to drive on a road paid with church money now would you?

I haven't spoken about pro life and choice organizations. Even though they too are tax exempt and should stay nuetral. I posted about the NAACP and how they force their politics on their people.

You can dodge that if you want. I don't care.

I see your point though. As long as a non profit is not religous then they don't have to pay taxes.

That is one of many forms of discrimination.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

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Can you please post a link backing your claim that church ran soup kitchens will only feed you if you are a christian?

Atleast point me in the right direction, I have tried finding it myself and am having problems finding anything backing your claim.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

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I refer you to the first part of my post.

If you are a firm believer in seperation of church and state then why should a church pay taxes that will be used to help with state road construction, state workers, federal workers and all the other uses taxes are for.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

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So do all other non profits.

They all act on their best interests. You don't like them being tax exempt because they are a religious non profit.

I can't put it any better then that. So this will be my last post on the matter.

Originally posted by ImaginaryReality1984
reply to post by fraterormus

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Your USA law is interesting, i wonder why then more people haven't undergone this little change to avoid taxes? Maybe because they would be refused? I'm not sure, please give a good reason why they haven't. My original point however still stands. Why are religions tax exempt?

Besides the two reasons I mentioned in my initial (first) post...here is another very good reason...

Almost all US law is based on Tort (just like in the UK where we borrowed the idea from), that being the upholding or violation of a law is based on the monetary value or damages. Crimes are determined by whether monetarily assessable damage to either property or person has been committed (did the victim have medical costs due to the incident, or did something have to be repaired?). It is not a crime to offend someone with harsh words or criticism, however if the victim can prove monetary damages, then it becomes Slander or Harassment. The same with the enacting of Laws. Laws are made to protect property or person from monetarily assessable damage or harm.

Taxation is no different in the US.

The US government taxes goods and services that have an assessable monetary value. I work for an employer, so I provide that employer a service that is worth $X dollars. Therefore, I can be taxed on a percentage of that value. Likewise, my employer sells the product which I have made for him for $X dollars, so he therefore can be taxed on a percentage of the value of that product. I own a house that is assessed at $X value, therefore I can be taxed on a percentage of that assessed value.

How can you assign a monetary value to spirituality?

What is the going rate of religious belief? It's not listed as a commodity on NASDAQ. Is there an open market where this service is valued in comparison with other beliefs? What is it's resell value? At what rate does it depreciate in monetary value? It is not something physical, and therefore something that Tort applies to.

This is what we call an "intangible" service.

We are not taxed, in the US at any rate, every time money exchanges hands, contrary to popular belief. Instead, we are taxed by reason that there is an assessable monetary value of the goods or services that we are providing/purchasing. When something has no monetary value, then the exchanging of currency is considered a donation as it has no value. It is therefore Tax Exempt.

Sure, you could make "intangible" things like spirituality be taxable, even though they have no real market value, but you would be treading in dangerous waters by doing so. What other intangible things do you tax? Do you tax Sex between lovers? Do you tax Thoughts when someone reads a book or watches a movie or partakes in a forum? Do you tax children that use their Imagination to play make-believe store? Ridiculous, don't you think? Why would taxing Religion be any different?

(Actually, the US Congress is debating on this issue right now in concerns with Virtual Property in MMORPGs like World of Warcraft, Online Video Games, and Virtual Worlds like Second-Life, and whether it should be taxable or not...and they are having to discuss the same issue of intangibility and no real market value.)

Sure, people are upset when Religions try to use Tax Exempt Status as a Tax Shelter. I'm not arguing that they shouldn't be. However, there are already regulations in place to prevent this, and in the U.S. at least the penalties are a stiff maximum of $250,000 per item through the IRS alone, plus possible criminal prosecution from the Justice Department. Just because Religious Organizations are Tax Exempt from basic Revenue sources through donations and sometimes even Property Tax, doesn't mean that they are exempt from Taxes entirely nor are they exempt from Tax Fraud.

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