Originally posted by uncommon-sense
I cannot believe this debate is about what to tax next.... How about NO new taxes!!! learn to only spend the money coming in. Quit adding taxes!

I don't think The govt. (any govt.) should be allowed to add or increase an existing tax without a voter approval. It is our money not theirs.

Taxes pay for everything you use. If the taxes were left to the people to decide upon then you wouldn't have any tax at all and everything woudl fall apart. People would have to privately school all of their children. This may sound great but you end up with the same situation that occurred in victorian times where only the rich went to school.

You woudln't have the police, fire service, libraries, roads etc etc.

I don't like new taxes, especially pointless ones but religions tend to be rich, they hqave no good reason for not paying tax and therefore i see no good reason to not tax them like any private corporation. Charities exist solely to help, churches exist for other reasons and therefore shouldn't be tax exempt.

If they started being completely transparent and not abusing their status of being tax exempt then i would leave them as they are. Maybe this effort would encourage them to do what they claim they do.

Originally posted by uncommon-sense
where did I say to eliminate the taxes? There is far more than enough being collected now to fund the services the Govt. is responsible for.

I think all of the people acting like we should tax more and hit up people who are not as highly taxed as they should need to wake up. The problem with our deficit is not a matter of people not paying enough taxes it is a problem of the Govt spending too much.

The thread however is not about taxes as a whole, just about a small section that don't pay taxes with no good reason.

Originally posted by uncommon-sense
Goverment waste and pork is what is killing this country and the worlds economy, not the people who make the money, who employ the masses, who pay the lions share of the taxes collected.

I was not speaking of one country. I meant all countries that allow religion to not pay tax. Let me be clear. The amount of money that would come in from religions if they were taxed would be very large.

Originally posted by uncommon-sense
new taxes will never be used to pay down a debt.
new taxes will never drop away when the crisis is over.
new taxes simply force people to have less money and depend on the govt. more.
new taxes will never be the answer to making the govt stick to a budget.
new taxes are like putting on the brakes to any economic recovery.

We are talking about what i consider an unfair exemption from tax. It is a new tax, but a deserved one. Many taxes here in the UK should be abolished, inheritance tax for one is absolutely unfair.

However new taxes that produce large amounts of revenue and are fair would help the government coffers and if spent correctly coudl do a lot of good. Spending correctly is a seperate argument.

Originally posted by uncommon-sense
simple fact from CBO: even if you taxed all people who made over 75k at a 100% tax rate (take every penny they earn) we would still rack up over a 1 Trillion dollar debt this year alone.

You are not talking about my country, this thread isn't simply about making more money through tax. It is about addressing what i see as an unfair exemption from tax.

I understand your stance. my point is simply that governments simply do not manage money well. Governments have an insatiable desire for more money and that will never end. during the heyday of the industrial revolution when the infrastructure was non existant somehow the world was able to build far more and do far more with a paltry percentage of what they demand now.

it's not what you make but what you spend that determines your wealth.

Originally posted by uncommon-sense
I understand your stance. my point is simply that governments simply do not manage money well.

I would argue that some governments do. Most don't but lets not give up on the idea of government shall we? Otherwise the only choice is anarchy. If voters make the government accountable then the spending would be better. Currently in the UK many parts of spending are hidden and nepitism is rampant.

Originally posted by uncommon-sense
Governments have an insatiable desire for more money and that will never end. during the heyday of the industrial revolution when the infrastructure was non existant somehow the world was able to build far more and do far more with a paltry percentage of what they demand now.

it's not what you make but what you spend that determines your wealth.

They did more because there was a limited minimum wage, slaves were still used, poor houses were common and children of a young age were forced into work. Simply check the cotton industry of the victorians in the UK for evidence of this. Not just cotton either, i simply use that as a really big example.

You're comparing apples to oranges on that one.

Originally posted by Amagnon
I laughed when I read in your post 'they don't tax charities and that's fine'. Haha - you realize charities are just smart corporations who are just avoiding tax and bleeding good people for extra cash.

I've worked for charities, this idea they are scamming people isn't true. Some may, they are conning people and get caught. Most however are trying their best.

Originally posted by Amagnon
Charities are just another ripoff that prey on the simple minded. If you want to do good - do good in your local community, then you can enjoy the value of it, make friends and see the effects. The large charities are simply scams - most of the money goes to perpetrating the things you are trying to prevent.

Churches of course are the mother of all scams - so yes, of course they should be taxed.

It depends on the charity. Religious ones do abuse things. Oxfam i would argue also abuses it. However many cahrities are good people trying to do their best. Look my own father has Motor Neurone Disease. The charity sent several people round, each person spending a few hours talking and trying to help with benefits, adjustments and tons of other stuff. All charities are not the same and i would argue most are well meaning.

Originally posted by Amagnon
I would also have to agree with Uncommon sense on this issue as well - there is no basic need to have tax at all. If governments were small and useful - then levies would be charged for specific infrastructure projects - rather than blanket taxes and who knows where the heck the money goes.

[edit on 5-6-2009 by Amagnon]

Your entire paragraph is nonsense. If all government expenses were proclaimed then it would stop a great deal of corruption. Don't you see that?

Near me a set of traffic lights were put in. This cost 80,000 pounds. I talked to a builder friend and he told me he could have done it for 40,000. The council doesn't put this into the public domain because it shows that companies either abuse contracts or there are underhand deals. The only reason it came to light was because there was an insider.

However if we the people pushed to have all expenses made public then every journalist in the country we are in would go over it and the government would be much cleaner.

Well Really If you would want tax to be on small religions it would be hard to determine your meaning of religion i believe aliens planned out earth and is a big experiment but you wouldn't tax that hope that made sense. I think people are drifting away from the whole meaning of religion and believing whatever you want

In that case taxing what you belief makes me scared not even to think anything and express it without having to pay man sooner or later were not even gonna be able to think

Originally posted by napierrl
In that case taxing what you belief makes me scared not even to think anything and express it without having to pay man sooner or later were not even gonna be able to think

It would be pretty easy. Simply state a religion needs a minimum of 500 followers to become tax exempt. You will have to pay taxes anyway and it doesn't stop you thinking whatever you want to think. In fact it effects you in no way whatsoever! Only the organisations you choose to give to.

If you give 5 pounds to christian aid then it won't effect you if this law comes into being. You still give 5 pounds.

Good idea, let’s start with Secular Humanist and Atheistic Darwinist who sap the tax system in America with their illogical and state supported nonsense. It is noted that the largest support for evolutionary idiocy is the government. While we’re at it, let’s tax the state controlled media, NBC, MSNBC and others who are owned by companies like General Electric, who’s CEO advises the President while making a fortune off the ‘Climate Change’ hoax. Don’t forget Al Gore who has just reported to have earned over 100,000,000 pushing his trash science global warming (now climate change) wealth redistribution carbon tax on uniformed Americans using insider lobbying and US tax payer funds. Hey, while you’re at it…


[edit on 6/5/2009 by SGTChas]

This whole thing sounds like a "Tax people you don't like" system.

No thanks.

Stupid Idea, like the Sugar Tax. Is the Plan to Finantially bankrupt everybody that doesnt Eat, sleep, and live like YOU?

Whos the real deamon?

Originally posted by Mikeyy
This whole thing sounds like a "Tax people you don't like" system.

No thanks.

Stupid Idea, like the Sugar Tax. Is the Plan to Finantially bankrupt everybody that doesnt Eat, sleep, and live like YOU?

Whos the real deamon?

It's nothing to do with liking someone or not. It is not comparable to a sugar tax either. This is a tax on a larg organisation that has other interests then simply charity.

Originally posted by SGTChas
Good idea, let’s start with Secular Humanist and Atheistic Darwinist who sap the tax system in America with their illogical and state supported nonsense.

The atheist organisations should also be taxed yes. See this wasn't just a rant about religions However there is no such thing as a Darwinist. But yes the large atheist societies should be taxed.

Originally posted by SGTChas
It is noted that the largest support for evolutionary idiocy is the government. While we’re at it, let’s tax the state controlled media, NBC, MSNBC and others who are owned by companies like General Electric, who’s CEO advises the President while making a fortune off the ‘Climate Change’ hoax.

Media is already taxed. As for the evolution thing, it has no place in this discussin so you're just tryign to derail the thread.

Originally posted by SGTChas
Don’t forget Al Gore who has just reported to have earned over 100,000,000 pushing his trash science global warming (now climate change) wealth redistribution carbon tax on uniformed Americans using insider lobbying and US tax payer funds. Hey, while you’re at it…

Again off topic. Topic was about taxing religions, large atheist bodies would be included. Not that i think atheism is a religion because every single atheist can live differntly, there is no book to follow or code of conduct. In the interest of fairness however yes tax them as well.

Charities are the biggest tax break the Illuminati have.

They just mimic the religions because freedom of religion
is one of the big one.

Take it from South Park we have freedom to make war and
the freedom to say we want peace at the same time.

Bush had his war freedom played out.
Nixon had Nam.

Meanwhile the president set by JP Morgan to control science in now
in the hands of the OSI and given national security power
to suppress any research as well as ol' JP did.
It took WWII to unlock some of the science secrets.
And they have them locked up so the Illuminati can play Green Games
with us.