America Has Lost its Influence and Prestige Around the World.

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There has been lots of Gloom and Doom lately about the decline of US power and influence. There is lots of fear mongering mixed with misinformation. I wanted to clarify some finer points so that some can gain a better perspective and understanding of the situation.

The US is not declining because of Fat, Dumb or Lazy Americans!

In recent years the US has been losing ground in its influence on global issues. At one point in time, starting around the end of World War II in 1945, the US was the dominant power on the planet. For roughly 45 years there was only one other power that threatened the role and that was the Former Soviet Union. It was not a force which threatened our relative wealth or prestige as being a global leader, but threatened us with a military confrontation. When they finally collapsed it went out with a whimper and not a bang. Will we go the same way? The US was the supreme power when it came to influence over world affairs. We stood supreme economically, militarily, financially and politically. We were the leaders in industry, manufacturing, space research and high technology. Today we are a declining empire.

So what has happened? Why has the US lost its dominant influence? Was it due to our lack of understanding of global affairs? Is it the loss of our manufacturing sectors? Was it the two globally unpopular wars we have been fighting since 9/11? Maybe it is corporate greed and their search for ever increasing profit margins by switching manufacturing and high technology production to overseas locations? The answer is all of the above and more.


The US began out sourcing their manufacturing to save on costs which were imposed by the ever growing environmental protection legislation. Instead of doing what was needed to make their factories environmentally friendly we started to see a trickle of industry leave the country in order to find locations where they could create products and didn't need to deal with environmental issue. Union Carbide desaster India

This slow trickle has now turned into a hemorrhage of jobs and industries that once took place on our own homeland soil. We now have a history of creating an industry then off it goes to other markets because profits are higher due to the lower costs of labor in those foreign markets. What is so ironic is that we then have the service or product sold back to us. The US still dominates the highest levels of technology in space and military hardware, however, the consumer never sees it until it is declassified and then deemed safe to be sold to the public. By then our overseas competitors use their unfair labor cost advantage to undersell American industries in the same field.


In an article posted on CNN.Politics.com, dated November 20, 2008, Alan Silverleib quotes the National Intelligence Councils stating:

“Although the United States is likely to remain the single most powerful actor, the United States' relative strength -- even in the military realm -- will decline and U.S. leverage will become more constrained.”

This is one of four reports that the Intelligence Council has written to better inform our U.S. policymakers. It goes on to describe how many countries around the world that were not formal US rivals, may start to become so, as they gain wealth and influence through their expanded purchasing power on global commodities such as steal, oil and other natural resources.

U.S. power, influence will decline in future, report says

The report, "Global Trends 2025: A Transformed World," was drafted by the National Intelligence Council to better inform U.S. policymakers -- starting with the incoming administration of President-elect Barack Obama -- about the factors most likely to shape major international trends and conflicts through the year 2025.

Due to the economic crises of recent months, the US has been left in a severely weakened financial state. Richard Benson the president of Specialty Financial Group wrote an editorial called the Comparative Advantage: Back in the February 27th, 2004 edition of Benson’s Economic and Market Trends. Benson warns us back then that what the massive labor arbitrage is doing.

"Destruction of American Industry,”

“gutting, hollowing out and closing down, American manufacturing forever.” Our national resiliency is going to be sorely tested as we face the destruction and collapse of American Industry.

Our recent headline news is stating that many countries including China and Russia are calling for a new global reserve currency other than the US dollar, it is yet again another troubling sign of the decline of the US as the global leader.

Now with a global increase in demand for natural resources grows the competition also increase for global influence from competing nations. I have covered this in another thread of mine called The New Great Game well worth the time to read up on the present situation.

This decline, however, does not spell gloom and doom for America, it just means that the US will not be the undisputed leader. There will be new competitors that the US will have to recognize and cooperate with in order to maintain peace. For example, India has a large growing middle class population whose desire for an American level of lifestyle means more competition for the US not less. Same goes for China with its huge population with just over 1.3 billion people (1,330,044,605 as of mid-2008); China is the world's largest and most populous country that will need to be dealt with on a mature and respectful manner.

For example if China were able to get roughly one quarter of its population to a middle class standard of living it will reach a level of consumer buying influence equal to that of the US. The US would lose it status as the world’s largest consumers market. That title would fall to China which in essence buys them the leader status as they will be the ones calling the shots as far as what is and isn’t in demand.

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As the world moves toward globalization, markets and industries become more international. In the long run this will be a positive step for the US. It will open new markets for our products. As the US dollar lowers in value our products will become more reasonably priced to foreign consumers. The question becomes which products? Will we still have an industrial base to produce products?

Corporate greed seems to be the underlying cause and the effect? We are losing our industrial base to foreign competitors.



Thank you for taking the time to read this

Peace
Slay

[edit on 3-6-2009 by SLAYER69]

This year China's trade deficit with the United States is expected to top $250bn, as imports flood in and exports fail to find a market with Chinese consumers.

In return, jobs have flowed into China from the US, a trend both US presidential candidates have vowed to reverse.

But how serious is the problem facing the next American President and beyond the political rhetoric, is there anything he can really do?

In the third of his special series, Tony Cheng traveled to the heartland of US heavy industry to find out.

[edit on 3-6-2009 by SLAYER69]

Im not from the US and i cant comment on anything economic because im not qualified too, But attidudes over here are not what they used to be.

I think what done it was the two unjustified wars after 911 and your whole police the world attitude,This is why you have gained so much hatred towards you because of this arrogant we are better than you thing you have going on.

I cant comment on much just my own opinion and that of others in my country that i pick up on.

Just to add i know its not the fault of the average american joe (six pack) just like in this country the TPTB speak for us and we have little say in what happens in global politics and such and i dont dislike americans at all i had an american girlfreind from atlanta and she was an amazing person, so dont come with the sweeping generalization comments either!

Good thread

The US has lost a lot of its control but it will always be a major player, if not the major player for the next half century anyway. As long as the power transition doesn't lead to a messy war with China.. but thats unimaginable at this stage because China are loving the whole new Capitalism thing.. it is still possible if things fall apart. Noone knows what the future holds.

Anyway.. It will be cheaper for the American people for the US to share the responsibility for expanding "capitalism" and modernizing the world with the EU and China.

It will also be better for the rest of the world IMO because for us, the US has seemed volatile for the last odd decade and it has been very worrying waiting for what was going to happen next.

I welcome a tripolar world.. I know it must be worrying for many Americans because of the posts and comments I see on various forums and websites..

Its not that bad not being top dog

Also.. having tripolar economic power as China joins in instead of just the US/EU will mean more money, jobs and explosive global growth in the next decade as the Chinese and Indian grow quickly into consumer economies..

Our evolution will speed up exponentially and I look forward to seeing how the planet looks in fifty years.




[edit on 3/6/09 by Dermo]

True enough, our average civilians have nothing to do with government or policy. Despite the fact they might vote, two things are absolutely necessary for democracy 1) that the people voting are educated and understand the issues, and 2) that everyones vote carries the same weight. We have neither of those here, the US is run and controled by corporations and the wealthy elite, and the rest are pretty much bystanders. Our public relations have been squandered by those attempting to enforce control over the rest of the world, and now we are losing the military and economic might to back it up.... might that was achieved, i might add, by pilfering the resources of those we were trying to control. A new day is beginning...and while the burden is going to rest upon the uneducated masses, perhaps its a good thing, in that the wealthy elite oligarchy is losing their control of all countries other than their own.

Future accurate history books will refer to this era as the Decline of the American Empire. Basically, the same exact fate which befell Ancient Greece and Ancient Rome when they went on their own little globalization kick. Throw in some healthy doses of greed and corruption and you have the makings of a train wreck.

Yep, we sure didnt last long. We really only attained dominance post WWII, so i'd say we had a 60 year reign.

Well put together in the OP, starred and flagged. I don't think it's just the US though, I think most of Europe, Canada and Australia are going to follow this too. To the point of labour, services etc - it may well get to the point where up and coming markets can dictate cheap labour from other nations - the problem I foresee is that the traditional Western markets aren't easily going to adapt to providing labour and services for newer markets at competetive prices, considering the current problems with unemployment, it may seem like a boon to have employment come in from abroad (no problem with that myself - a job's a job) - the main problem is going to be that we in the West have become used to certain lifestyles and creature comforts that are gonna be hard to lose, which realistically we'll have too. Although, it may well be easier for the poor to adapt to this than the middle classes (and beyond).

Yeah, I think it is gonna be the fall of Rome again, Empires based on decadence are bound to fail.

As for the perception of America as a world leader/power - as a Brit, I think that's been a long, long way away for a good few years - not that the UK and Europe aren't partially responsible too. I don't personally know of anyone that thinks of the traditional US power structure as anything other than merciless bullies. There is also a probblem with how a lot of Western culture shows itself in the media... from film stars, to politicians, religious leaders and rock stars - the majority of these come across as charlatans or vain egotists.

Good post OP, from my perspective it's a real shame but not unforseen. America has been through a P.R. nightmare for the past 9 years.
Through the 80s you amassed great wealth, along with the successful export of American pop culture during the 90s the whole world was watching America.
Since then the whole world has watched as mistake after mistake has been made, outsourcing killed manufacturing, neverending wars on two fronts, politics that restricted brand USA from being re-invented and the list goes on and on, added to all this possibly the worst president EVER as mascot.
I don't think it's the end nor do I think that you will go the way of Russia, call it blind faith but I think America will crack sustainable alternate energy first.
Of coarse with my tinfoil hat on, the real agenda to collaspe the US is to add a bit more chaos to an already chaotic world.
Once they fill us all full of enough fear they will offer a one world govt and then the enslavement begins.

reply to post by Reading


I'll try to make it down the list of replies when I can.

Reading where exactly are you from?
I'm just curious.

Originally posted by Dermo

Also.. having tripolar economic power as China joins in instead of just the US/EU will mean more money, jobs and explosive global growth in the next decade as the Chinese and Indian grow quickly into consumer economies..

Our evolution will speed up exponentially and I look forward to seeing how the planet looks in fifty years.

Dont get too excited China has already pasted the US as far as the largest polluter and their growth hasnt even really started yet.

Stay tuned on that one. Also pay close attention to central Asia

Originally posted by Badfuture
I don't think it's the end nor do I think that you will go the way of Russia, call it blind faith but I think America will crack sustainable alternate energy first.
Of coarse with my tinfoil hat on, the real agenda to collaspe the US is to add a bit more chaos to an already chaotic world.
Once they fill us all full of enough fear they will offer a one world govt and then the enslavement begins.

Here is an interesting view of the present situation. I quoted this from another thread we were on. It's about the US and China.

Originally posted by one4all

I would like to give you one canadians view of things. America is a hostile nation when its values are threatened,it is a Nation which has given the world some incredibly important gifts in terms of free will,free speech,and freedom of expression in every way,however the country is corrupted by money and power like all countries of the world so above and beyond the usual corruption such a young nation has achieved incredible things. They are a good neighbor. They encountered conflict during their childhood as a nation but they get full marks because they are still only pre-teens compared to other world superpowers yet they are so mature in other areas of their humanitarian developement.

However big guns are only big guns, they make you feel safe but you might want to ask Custers troops if guns are the only thing that can kill you. America heralded the nuke age and they must now see it out as history leaves it behind. The gunslinger days are over and it is time to begin the big cleanup America must do to survive, I mean cleaning up the babyboomers mess that they are leaving behind.Democracy is safe forever the Duke can go to sleep now, the world has adopted the western way but now its time to change again,no one likes a bully even if they are doing good things when they arent busy doing bad things. Did I mention that we Have a lot of room here in Canada and everyone in America is welcome here, we are like kissing cousins anways. Please just leave your guns and grenades at the border.

China,is also a hostile nation when its values are threatened, china has a long history compared to the US so it is hard to compare the two in terms of contribution vs age or maturity level. But I will say that China has given the world gifts that are so highly numbered that I wont offer any comparison at all, however I must add that it took thousands of years to give those gifts and it has been a very long time since china has contributed what would be considered its fair share to the present day world.

China has in fact done what Russia did and will end up in a social political state of restructure soon unless they change right now, but they cant change right now simply because chinas growth patterns always contain a healthy dose of warfare and aquisition of resources. The world will not accept the type of growth that china needs experience to become the future world power it wishes to aspire to be. Never again, because the world as a whole now condems the type of war largely populated powerful countries need to wage to survive.

So China MUST CHANGE NOW and adopt a more current global perspective and possible stop referring to democracy as being American and study a little history,if anything blame democracy on the romans if you need to blame the path to humanities future on someone. On that note so I dont offend anyone, china needs to become a lot more like the ROMANS or they wont survive to become the great leader they wish to be.

Making excuses for atrocities committed against your people by pointing out that someone else previously made the same error is actually admitting weakness and inability to learn and I will say that for a country with a history as long proud and decorated as Chinas is It is disappointing to hear these things. The only way china can CATCH UP ON ALL OF THE PROGRESS IT HAS LOST GROUND ON WITH THE OTHER SUPERPOWERS IS TO CHANGE THE WAY IT VIEWS ITSELF AND TO START TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE LAST HUNDRED OR SO YEARS,PULL UP ITS PANTS,START TO MAKE FRIENDS INSTEAD OF ALLYS AND ACCEPT THAT THE WORLD WILL NOT ALLOW ANOTHER WAR SO THE COUNTRIES GROWTH WILL HAVE TO BE SUPPORTED THROUGH FRIENDSHIPS.

Political differences aside, as a canadian I can tell you that everyone can count numbers so we are all aware of the population dynamics of our planet and this means we are all aware of the reasons certain nations have proliferated nuclear weapons. Numbers dont count when you drop a nuke. The nuclear age changed Chinas path forever,it had nothing to do with Democracy or Communism. Had china aquired nukes first we would all be learning mandarin, thats just reality.With Global proliferation of weapons of mass destruction chinas ability to move forward with proper growth and living conditions for its people ended forever because nothing can ever be gained through war again without destroying the planet. The only thing left is to become Canadian and we have room for everyone,we love the world and as long as you leave your guns and swords at the border you are welcome here any time.

Google Video Link

www.plabu.com... Ron Paul speaks about the American Empire collapsing!

[edit on 3-6-2009 by SLAYER69]

I wrote this awhile ago I think now more than ever it applies.

You may have to turn the volume all the way up for the video.


I’m talking to the American guy or gal who gets up in the morning when the alarm goes off and for a brief moment in the predawn light sits on the edge of the bed and goes through the tasks ahead of them for the day, and washes the sleep from their face and reaches for their morning coffee, the guy or gal who kisses their family good bye and heads dutifully off to work either because they want to or have to.


The American guy or gal who loves this country and is concerned about which direction it’s headed. As Real Americans, Your racial, Religious, and social economic back grounds, Are your business. The Americans who understand and respect that.

The ones who believe in the bill of goods I mean bill of rights we have been sold.

I would like to have a frank and open discussion about what has happened to our country, where we are headed, and what “We The People” can do to reclaim our country.

If you’re not an American you are still welcomed to participate but Please no anti American flaming. Lets have an honest and open discussion please.


I’ve been reading and hearing all kinds of alarming things happening around the world and looking very hard at our country and its recent actions both at home and abroad.

The wars, The Economy, The racial unrest, Food shortages, Sky rocketing oil prices oh wait they have fallen again oh wait there is always next year. YADDA YADDA BLAH BLAH BLAH.


There are many around the world that seems to be chomping at the bit, circling like vultures waiting for America to fall. I to be totally honest I cannot blame them. If the past 20 years or so have been an example of what our country is becoming then this is truly a sad day for me.

This is no longer the America I grew up knowing. Not the America my great Grandfather, Grandfather, Father, myself and now my son fought for. The America I grew up knowing, the one whose streets I’ve walked the one where I traveled growing up. I have been fortunate enough to have lived in 3 major US cities on both coasts as well have lived in a small town and farm country. My family moved a lot because of my fathers work. My people, the American of all racial and religious backgrounds are good people. I know this first hand. Some outside the US just do not know who we really are or what makes us tick.


We have a rich history all be it short. We have gone from one of the smallest, poorest, and backward country to the wealthiest most powerful country the world has ever seen up to this point in human history in little over 200 years. We have fought in two major world wars, Twice in Europe when we did not have to.

We stood toe to toe with Communism. We have influenced and contributed to major global advancements in the fields of industry, science, medical, avionics and computer technology the likes of which the world has never seen before.

Am I being overly patriotic?

Maybe, but there is a real history behind what I’m saying.

The question now becomes what made us great? Was it Detroit and our big cars? Was it New York, Chicago and our tall skyscrapers? How about Motown and Hollywood with our movies and loud rock music? Maybe it was coca cola and roller skates? Could it have been drive in theaters and superhighways.

Some think it was landing on the moon or sending deep space probes out of our solar system.

Maybe it’s our simple and humble “can do” attitude.

Do we always need to be the top dog?

Americans traditionally love the underdog. Why? Because we were the underdog. And we fought so hard and so well from that that we became a world superpower, now that is working against us because we are perceived rightly or wrongly as the overbearing bad guys. Remember it’s in human nature to find a bad guy. And with our recent actions around the world I really can’t blame those who feel we have become the bad guys.


I remember one of my professors discussing great civilizations and empires and how they all thought they were the end all be all. And that the world would never change! But it does and has. I don’t see too much of the great Egyptian kingdoms or too many Roman senators running around or a Mayan high priest not to mention a Chinese emperor or even the great British fleet. History repeats itself.

I say we go back to the basics, what made us great in the first place. No I’m not talking about isolationism; I’m referring to our roots, our traditions of taking care of Americans first. Focus on schooling, take care of our elderly. Respect each other’s beliefs. Help the less fortunate. Regain the moral high ground.

Stop talking about how great we are and start doing the things that made us great.

Whether you are of Native American descent or of European blood, or your forefathers were dragged here in chains, I say not bad for a bunch of uneducated immigrants. Not bad at all.

If we are going to fall like other great empires before us then so be it. I feel that we have had one hell of a ride.

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Dont get too excited China has already pasted the US as far as the largest polluter and their growth hasnt even really started yet.

Stay tuned on that one. Also pay close attention to central Asia

I don't know if that makes too much of a difference, China is already one of the only major viable investment economies and the EU/US know that the sooner it becomes a large scale consumer market, the better for us.

This in my opinion is one of the main reasons why our governments are so willing to pay to reduce China's emissions.. In order to help curb the emissions while stimulating growth which will in turn expand the market for us.. The Chinese know this and therefore will take everything they can get.

Central Asia? As in Pakistan etc? Or India? India is not too far off China.. thats why I am so confident that between them, an extra 2.5 billion people will create a serious consumer base for the 800million odd people of the EU/US. We'll just have to wait and see.. and hope lol.

Now, I'm not an economist - and would really appreciate some input from someone more versed in economics...

...but if/when China becomes a major market, where will the money come from, what will Chinese currency be worth and how will it integrate with the $/£ etc? My thought is that the current economic climate has come about due to "unreal" money being created to lend (Mortgages, business loans etc), so more people have a foothold and so the economy can expand, people can buy homes, big tv's etc - but this money isn't actually real, it only exists on computers - right?

So China becomes a major player economically (I think this is likely), but for them to use us as a labour/production market, we'll be using their currency as a basis for payment? I'm assuming this as it would seem that a strong "buyer" can determine how it pays to a weak(er) service provider.
I'm guessing China would need to mint a lot more of its currency to trade or that the value of it would greatly increase... also, take into account that China has a massive population and I would think much more likely to source labour from within.

I'm thinking it all spells doom and/or gloom.

reply to post by jokei


I might be after missing your question altogether but..

As products are made, they have a value.. Money can be created to match this value without causing problems with inflation.

The more that is produced, the more money is needed to buy it therefore the more money that is borrowed and the more money that goes into the economy to add to economic growth.. Mainly because most products are made with natural resources of some description.

Its kind of like the way Mortgages work except high rate depreciation in value is a given in everyday products. This way, money can be printed (or added to a database) in order to lend to someone to buy this product.. the money used will go back into the economy by paying for the various stages of production.

So, this is the same with the Chinese system except at the moment, they dont need to borrow money to buy into the country as they are not so much a consumer as an exporter. As this changes, and it already is in a massive way.. (I personally know several business people in Ireland that make a living JUST exporting various products or services to China).. The Chinese will be exporting their cash while importing our products and services.

I know China has a huge population but every country imports products and services once there is a free market.. thats a fact of economics.. So as the Chinese economy expands and we keep moving to add the services they are looking for while expanding, therefore giving us more money while giving them a higher standard of living.

As the resources (that a large amount of debt for production is based on) run out, the world will move more and more to renewable energy which is almost a perpetual 'resource for cash' economy.

Im not too sure what you are getting at with the currency thing.. Or I might have given an explaination for that already. Anyway, i hope it helps.

reply to post by Dermo


Awesome, cheers for your reply, I think it's helped clarify things (think???)... I'm getting at the idea that this system is based on growth year on year and that it can only go on for a finite amount of time.

Originally posted by jokei
Awesome, cheers for your reply, I think it's helped clarify things (think???)... I'm getting at the idea that this system is based on growth year on year and that it can only go on for a finite amount of time.

No problemmo

Yes, that is correct about it being finite.. The only way to move on from this is new industries etc.. thats why there is such a scramble for resources at the moment.. as they are running out so that industry is starting to tighten up. Resources are the most important of all because as you mine resources, you can basically create money to pay for them without really getting into unbacked debt.

This is also one of the main reasons for the new space race because as the global economy grows, our resources will need to start coming from outside this planet.. so space is a new industry that is only a few decades away from booming.. that will eventually replace the mining industry on earth but create ten times the amount of jobs off the planet in a couple of hundred years.

As long as we have entrapreneurs and capitalism, we'll find a way for growth.. Don't worry

Originally posted by Dermo

Central Asia? As in Pakistan etc? Or India? India is not too far off China.. thats why I am so confident that between them, an extra 2.5 billion people will create a serious consumer base for the 800million odd people of the EU/US. We'll just have to wait and see.. and hope lol.

Yeah central Asia, I would highly recommend you take a gander over at my other thread The New Great Game