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Venezuela Chavez says "Comrade" Obama more left-wing

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posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 12:40 PM
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BTW, most westerners believe all of these lies about Cuba, and the Communist regime being a paradise despite most Cubans who have left the island saying loud and clear that it is no paradise in the least.

i was just telling a member who send me a U2U about all the films which most westerners see about Cuba, you see people dancing, and looking happy. Well, most Cubans had to learn to be as happy as they can despite living in a dictatorship, but if you can ask those same Cubans who are dancing and seem happy, and if you don't film them tlaking about the regime, they "might" be willing to tell you the truth.

What most westerners don't know about Communist regimes such as that of Cuba is that "EVERYTHING", or almost everything, that is filmed in the island has the consent of the Communist regime, and those people being filmed had to "act" as if they are happy, because if they do not, and after the filming crew are gone, those people who were filmed and if they told the truth about Cuba they would have to awnser to the regime.

ALL jobs in Cuba are "NATIONALIZED" which means the state can deny you work for your political views, which this happens in EVERY Communist dictatorship.

Back in 2006 I wrote an article in these same forums about former Helena Houdova, the former Miss Czech Republic who runs a charity for children and who went to Cuba with another model friend and wanted to film what really happens to Cuban children such as AIDs victims.

Here is again what happened to this model and her friend for trying to film the truth about Cuba.

I wish I could quote the entire thing, but to avoid the excerpt from being deleted due to policy of ATS, I will excerpt the most important parts.


A set of photos showing the suffering of Cuban AIDS victims and the squalid conditions in a Havana shantytown went on display here last week after having been smuggled out of Cuba by a Czech fashion model.

Helena Houdova, whose face has graced the covers of numerous magazines, and her friend Mariana Kroftova, who is identified in news reports as a psychologist and sometimes model, complained they were held for 11 hours and denied access to Czech consular officials after being arrested for taking the pictures while visiting the island.

The Czech women were detained while photographing a slum outside of Havana on Jan. 23. Authorities confiscated a roll of 35 mm film from Miss Kroftova's camera, but Miss Houdova managed to save her photos by slipping the memory chip from her digital camera into her bra.
.......................

"People can't do what they love. People cant speak what they want," she said in an interview. "Thats whats happening. The fact that the [government] says there is no poverty" only makes a bad situation worse, she said.

Among those who turned out to applaud Miss Houdova's derring-do, and to remind people of the grim realities of communism, was the Czech Republic's most famous former dissident, Vaclav Havel.
........................
Miss Houdova said her biggest fear during her detention was not for her own well-being but for that of her Cuban guide, the wife of a leading dissident, who could have been jailed indefinitely. So far that has not happened.

Miss Houdova said the guide urged her to "please talk about it everywhere you can, and let the world know what is happening here." The photo exhibition, which she hopes to bring to several U.S. cities in addition to Washington, is Miss Houdova's way of fulfilling that request.
............................

While Miss Houdova expressed relief that her Cuban friend is not in jail, the foundation's Nikola Horejs was more cautious.

He said life has gotten more difficult for Cubas dissidents and their families since a sweep in 2003 landed 75 journalists, doctors and other regime opponents in jail.

The Cuban government is increasingly sensitive to negative publicity, he said. "They know very well how to do this thing. They wait a bit, and then slowly, step by step, harass these people and try to make them leave the country."

..................................

"Europe could do more," Mr. Havel said. "And I think that our countries, with our experience, have to press the whole European Union."

newsgroups.derkeiler.com...

Everything that you read about Cuba, and comes from official websites, and from the UN is allowed under the consent of the Communist regime, and only if the regime likes it.

The claims that life in Cuba is excellent, and that the life expectancy is very high, ect, is all a LIE, this is information that comes directly from the Communist dictatorship and they MAKE IT UP" to make it look like life in Cuba is great...

The claims that medical care is excellent, and everyone in Cuba gets the best medical attention is a lie. Doctors, and I have in the island two uncles who are doctors, and a cousin who is a dentist, and i have witnessed as a child what happens in hospitals since my mother was a nurse. Now-a-days you can't visit hospitals in the island even if you have family working there.

Anyway, doctors lack the necessary items to treat people, and most of the time they have to give an aspirin when other medication is necessary. Doctors don't even have rubber gloves, that is unless you go to one of the hospitals which is ONLY for rich tourists, or for the Communist elite.

The only hospitals that have everything, and the best equipment you can find are the hospitals which only the Communist who work in the regime go to, or where the tourists can go to. BTW, any tourist that goes to Cuba is seen as a "rich person" by most Cubans.



[edit on 4-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]




posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 12:43 PM
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Originally posted by mr-lizard

Not all left wingers believe in socialism or communism, again like not all right wingers are fascist. I happen to be left wing and denounce all three.

You're comments sound like a brain washed right winger.

(See how tiresome your arguement has become?)


My comments have become tiresome for people like you because you don't want to accept the truth, just like all left wingers such as yourself were claiming several years ago that Chavez is not a Communist.

Everything i have said is the truth based on my experiences, and if it bothers you that is your problem.

I really don't give a hoot what left wingers might think of what i have to say, it is simply the truth.

And one more thing, in case you haven't realized it yet, the people who are brainwashed are left wingers who don't want to accept the truth even when it comes from real people who have experienced what left wingers claim to be paradise.....

If you want I can show you my Cuban passport, even though I became a U.S. citizen, in Cuba I am seen as a Cuban citizen, just for the fact that if the government in Cuba thinks I am doing anything "counter-revolutionary", they can put me in jail even if I am an American citizen.



[edit on 4-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by dominika

Anyway, I can assure you all the Obama is most certainly NOT a communist/socialist. Being a communist myself, I should know.


And this is exactly what other Communists, and the rest of the left-wingers were claiming about Chavez years ago, even when those who have "experienced' Communism, and not just read about it and think it is paradise, were seeing that he is a Communist from the beginning by the actions he was making, and the programs he was/is implementing in Venezuela.

Even when Chavez himself was stating years ago that Castro was his mentor, and that Cuba was an example that Venezuela should follow, most left-wingers were claiming even then that Chavez was not a Communist.

When Communists take over a country, and convert it into a dictatorship, they don't announce from the beginning that they are Communists, they claim they are bringing "change", and they start implementing Socialist programs, and only announce they are Communists after they have taken complete power.

A Communist orSocialist is a Communist or Socialist by the actions he/she takes, not by what he/she claims.

BTW, in case you haven't noticed it yet, i have stated that the "Socialist" programs being implemented in the U.S. are reminiscent of both 1930s National Socialist Germany, and Communist regimes such as that in Cuba.

The current administration could very well be National Socialist, or Communist, or they could even make up a new Socialist form of government so that people think "it is a new form of government", but with similar, if not the same Socialist programs found in dictatorships around the world.

[edited to add comments]




[edit on 4-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 01:24 PM
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Originally posted by HunkaHunka
Why not, in the rest of your post you accuse "timmy" of being stupid and not understanding what's going on.

What makes his stance more stupid than that of the Chinese?


Actually, I don't have to accuse Timmy of anything that is pretty self evident.
Everytime he speaks, the market drops, the Chinese are well aware of this which is another reason why they laughed at him/us.
If the Chinese spoke New Yorkese, they would have stood up and yelled. "GitTahFookOttaHee",
...instead they laughed.



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by Alxandro
reply to post by earlywatcher
 


Yep.
I think I liked it better when the rest of the world hated the US because at least we know that hate usually comes from envy and jealousy.
Now we must prepare to get slapped around because of a pushover Prez.

Welcome to the era of Carter II.


Lol envy and jealousy...hardly. I think it was Bush and his feeble mind alienating the rest of the world by telling everyone to go # themselves. Bush was never taken seriously, the man was a complete joke a good ole boy. It's amazing this country could elect such a moron to power.
The thing about Bush is everyone saw him as a joke, they take Obama seriously.



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by dominika

Anyway, I can assure you all the Obama is most certainly NOT a communist/socialist. Being a communist myself, I should know.


And this is exactly what other Communists, and the rest of the left-wingers were claiming about Chavez years ago, even when those who have "experienced' Communism, and not just read about it and think it is paradise, were seeing that he is a Communist from the beginning by the actions he was making, and the programs he was/is implementing in Venezuela.


You need to understand what the definition of communsim is, because Venezuela isn't communist.



When Communists take over a country, and convert it into a dictatorship, they don't announce from the beginning that they are Communists, they claim they are bringing "change", and they start implementing Socialist programs, and only announce they are Communists after they have taken complete power.


Right and you think this is what Obama is going to do




BTW, in case you haven't noticed it yet, i have stated that the "Socialist" programs being implemented in the U.S. are reminiscent of both 1930s National Socialist Germany, and Communist regimes such as that in Cuba.


Ah or like Roosevelt in the 1930's.


The current administration could very well be National Socialist, or Communist, or they could even make up a new Socialist form of government so that people think "it is a new form of government", but with similar, if not the same Socialist programs found in dictatorships around the world.


And of course countries which aren't socialist or communist ie. Scandinavian countries.

BTW, have you researched any of this yourself or just going on editorials you have found on the internet - it sounds like a bit of parroting.

[edit on 4-6-2009 by rogue1]



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 01:57 PM
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Originally posted by rogue1

You need to understand what the definition of communsim is, because Venezuela isn't communist.


Really? Well you better go and tell that to Chavez...... have you actually done any research yourself?... Chavez has proclaimed to be Communist, and every program implemented by him, and his regime are Communist, I guess for someone like you that doesn't make him Communist...

I have given several times in the past direct links to Chavez talking about what form of government he wants for Venezuela. I have done so under the name Muaddib, and I have translated into English what he has said, and other members who also speak, and can read Spanish have confirmed what I have translated...

Chavez is a Communist, he has stated so himself... he even appeared recently proclaiming that the U.S. empire has collapsed an under the guidance from Communist China there would be a new world order...

BTW, don't give me that BS about "Communism has never existed"... That is nothing more than excuses made up by Communists who want their form of dictatorial rule to expand..


Originally posted by rogue1
Right and you think this is what Obama is going to do


...i don't "think", that is exactly what he, and his administration is doing....




Originally posted by rogue1
Ah or like Roosevelt in the 1930's.


Thank you for admitting the fact that Democrats for the most part tend to implement Socialist/Communist programs....



Originally posted by rogue1
And of course countries which aren't socialist or communist ie. Scandinavian countries.


Really? has Scandinavia Nationalized private firms? Has Scandinavia made into law that children starting from seconddary, and even primary should do mandatory Community service? Has Scandinavia trained children to be counter-terrorists? Has Scandinavia given power over all the learn-based/educational programs to something they call the Corporation?...


Originally posted by rogue1
BTW, have you researched any of this yourself or just going on editorials you have found on the internet - it sounds like a bit of parroting.


I have done more than "research"... in case you haven't read my statements I have "experienced" Communism.



[edit on 4-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 02:15 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
BTW, most westerners believe all of these lies about Cuba, and the Communist regime being a paradise despite most Cubans who have left the island saying loud and clear that it is no paradise in the least.


True. Cuba is a poor country. But more likely because of the unfair embargo, instead of their the Communist regime.



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by bluepanic
True. Cuba is a poor country. But more likely because of the unfair embargo, instead of their the Communist regime.


Not true, this is what people from outside of Cuba claim. Cuba is not really poor, the Cuban people are poor, the regime has a lot of money but they spend that money to "expand" Communism, or as it is also called "the revolution" to other countries.

Cuba produces enough food to feed the entire population well, but the products harvested by children since they are 11 or 12 years old, and until they graduate are sold or sent to other countries in which "revolutionaries' are trying to impose a Communist dictatorship.

Since castro was in power, and even before the embargoe began, the Cuban people became poorer...

This is what Communism brings, equality in poverty except those who work for the regime and are part of the elite.

BTW in case some of you didn't know there are European countries which do business with Cuba and still the Cuban people are suffering.

Can European countries not bring to Cuba what the U.S. could?.. yes they can, except that Communism does not allow for "the good Communists" to be tainted by "Capitalism".

[edit on 4-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 02:39 PM
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reply to post by bluepanic
 



Do tell me, how can people become wealthy if they don't own anything, and they don't have any businesses of their own?

In Communism the state owns all property, and it can take you out of your home if the state thinks your house should belong to someone else.

All jobs are "NATIONALIZED' which means the STATE owns all jobs too.

How can people succeed in such a form of government? Only the elite in power succeed in such a government.

That is what Communism, also called true Socialism brings.



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


I would like to know about your "experiences" of socialism



posted on Jun, 4 2009 @ 04:18 PM
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Originally posted by Kombatt98
reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


I would like to know about your "experiences" of socialism


Communists describe themselves as Socialists, or also as "revolutionaries", and in all Communist dictatorships there are Socialist programs. I was born and grew up part of my life in such a system, so i do have "experience" in Socialism.

A similar program just like the one that president Obama signed into law, known as bill H.R. 1388 exists in Cuba, and other Communist regimes.

Under such a program children starting from around 11 or 12 years old must do service for the good of the State, also labeled for the good of the revolution.

I still remember very well when a bus would stop near my house, which was split by the government for two families, mine, and another family. Meanwhile my family lived in the second floor, which had two rooms, a small kitchen, and a small living room, the bottom floor was for another family. My grandmother owned this house before the revolution took it.

Anyway, I still remember how a government bus would stop close by to take my two older half sisters to the summer work camps. Which are harvesting work camps for children, to harvest food, sugar, tobacco plants etc, most of which was sent overseas, and which the children could not eat.

They would be there for about 45 days, and we could visit once a week for a couple hours. We, as well as other families, would get whatever food we could to take it to my sisters, the other families to their kids, because they would go hungry in these camps.

My mother used to tell me stories that when she had to go to these hard labour camps, the walls were made from cloth, and there was no roof. Later on the walls were made from wood, and there was a roof, but the children would live in these buildings without an AC, or fans, not that Cuban families enjoy ACs, but some of us had fans, anyway, the children would, and still suffer a lot from the heat.

My two sisters always came back home, even with the food we were able to take to them, very thin, with lice on their heads, and with intestinal problems.

I also remember very well the long lines of Cuban people who would go to the "bodegas" (stores), and which for the most part were almost empty, and we could only buy whatever was in our "libretas" ( food books) which would be, one steak, if there was any, for an entire family for a month (if i remember correctly), some rice which was not enough to feed one person well, then each family had to decide whether they needed a toothpate tube for the month, or a bar of soap, which most families got the soap, and we would use the soap to brush our teeth with our index finger.

Ah, and btw at the age of 7 all Cuban children, except for the elite, were denied milk. That's the age when the Cuban government says children don't need milk anymore.

I also remember going to school in my white short sleeve shirt, with red short tie, which was just a red "pañuelo" (handkerchief) and red shorts. We would start each morning in the school with every child singing outloud the national anthem, and you had to as the teachers would make sure each child was singing outloud, about how willing each child was to die for the revolution and the country, then we would be indoctrinated into believing Capitalism is evil, and Communism/Socialism is the best form of government, and how "materialistic" the westerners were, and that we must be ready to fight them to the last child because one day such a battle would occur.

I remember having to go in hiding to a building where there were teaching about Catholicism, and we had to claim that we were going to learn to play the piano, and there was always a piano playing just to give credence to this, and when el vecindario (the neighborhood) found out that they were teaching Catholicism there, it was closed by the government, and children like me were harassed by other children who not too long ago were my friends, and i had to fight them, and only one other friend of mine was there to help me fight my other friends, or who used to be my friends until they found out i was going to learn about Catholicism.

I remember my family fighting against the government to keep their old home, the government was claiming another bigger family should have it, in which three generations of my family were/are living, now they are four generations living in the same old house, and the few lands we had were confiscated by the state, and my family was never rich, or even wealthy.

To this day my family still has to show the government that several people are living in the same room, and the house is full of our family just to keep living in the house.

The other house of my grandmother, which my father had left for my two sisters, and their kids, which was just the top floor, was taken by the government and given to another family, and a smaller apartment was given to my sisters and their children.

I could keep going, but then I would have to write a book about my experiences with true socialism/Communism.

BTW a country that has some Socialism, and Capitalism as an economic system is not a true Socialist nation.

As far as i know there are no European countries in which children starting from secondary, or primary have to do mandatory Community service. And how many European countries have nationalized private companies?..


[edited to add comments]




[edit on 4-6-2009 by ElectricUniverse]



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 03:51 AM
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thanks for your input Electric Universe



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 07:58 AM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Really? has Scandinavia Nationalized private firms? Has Scandinavia made into law that children starting from seconddary, and even primary should do mandatory Community service? Has Scandinavia trained children to be counter-terrorists? Has Scandinavia given power over all the learn-based/educational programs to something they call the Corporation?...


Hmm has America. Nationalizing corporations....this would mean the corporations that have been kept afloat with tax payers money.I think you misinterpret what nationalization means. The government is just like any other entity which buys a majority stake in a company...they want a say in how it is run to protect their/our investment. Lord knows the present management couldn't manage them.




I have done more than "research"... in case you haven't read my statements I have "experienced" Communism.


Have you ? Funny as true communism has never existed in any country. So have you experienced communism....NO you haven't.

I could say I ahve experienced communism because I lived in China for a long time....thing is China isn't communist

They call themesleves communist, but from my experience travelling and working all over China, they aren't.



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 08:05 AM
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Originally posted by rogue1
Have you ? Funny as true communism has never existed in any country. So have you experienced communism....NO you haven't.



this is a bogus statement which I read repeatedly on forums- there is no such thing as "TRUE" communism, anymore than there is a "TRUE" Christian- in the land of man, with all it's imperfections and compromises, there is no 100% "true" anything- there are just different variations on a theme

China is (or certainly WAS) indeed a communist endeavour, the whole "TRUE" thing is meaningless in any context in the world



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by blueorder
this is a bogus statement which I read repeatedly on forums- there is no such thing as "TRUE" communism, anymore than there is a "TRUE" Christian- in the land of man, with all it's imperfections and compromises, there is no 100% "true" anything- there are just different variations on a theme.


Well no it isn't there has never been any true communism - simple fact. When people bitch and moan about communism what they are really trying to articulate is countries run by dictatorships, many of which don't happen to be communist



China is (or certainly WAS) indeed a communist endeavour, the whole "TRUE" thing is meaningless in any context in the world


Well if you ever speak to a Chinese person they would call it communism with a Chinese flavour. The ignorant still label China as a communist country now which in fact they are not. But it helps the simple sensibilities of a lot of people in this country to rail against a new bogeyman, whilst having the illusion of American superiority.



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 08:15 AM
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Originally posted by rogue1
Well no it isn't there has never been any true communism - simple fact.


It isn't a simple "fact", it is SIMPLE but not a fact- there is no such thing as "TRUE COMMUNISM" outside of a text book



When people bitch and moan about communism what they are really trying to articulate is countries run by dictatorships, many of which don't happen to be communist



This is communism in action, outside of textbooks




Well if you ever speak to a Chinese person they would call it communism with a Chinese flavour. The ignorant still label China as a communist country now which in fact they are not. But it helps the simple sensibilities of a lot of people in this country to rail against a new bogeyman, whilst having the illusion of American superiority.



Exactly, communist with a chinese flavour- every attempt at communism will differ depending on region, culture etc, and all of it will involve some dictatorial rule and/or totalitarianism- but it will be different in EVERY instance



posted on Jun, 5 2009 @ 08:06 PM
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reply to post by rogue1
 


why do you think china is not communist? how does it differ from a communist country? did you work for the chinese government when you lived there or for a private chinese company or a foreign owned country? why did you leave china? sounds like it definitely agreed with your way of thought.



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