Obama's plan for taking our guns!

Originally posted by NWOhereNOW

It would have saved countless lives had we not engaged in war... Fathers and husbands would not have been killed. Blacks would not have been enslaved.

By whose measure? George III? Oh wait... you mean English fathers and husbands would have been saved... The colonists would still be under the Draconian rule.

Slavery??? What a shining example of historical revision! Boy, you're American History teacher must be a real card!

Don't know if you knew this, but many of the founding fathers were opposed to slavery. Jefferson freed his slaves in his last will and testament, as well as had them counted as members of his family in a census (Sorry, don't remember which year, but if you insist, I'll find it... I don't mind teaching REAL history, unrevised). It could be argued that the only reason slavery continued past the revolution is that it was not deemed a popular enough issue to revise until after the war of northern aggression.

Oh, what legacy our weapons leave behind. War, death, and slavery.

Of course, your type are all FOR WAR and FOR WEAPONS OF DEATH.

Well, wrong again... been there, done that... I had hoped to grow old in peace and raise a family, but it appears I'll have to put the old "game face" on once more to honor the oath I took, and hold sacred.

There are scores of others on this board that are like minded. We are neither psychopaths, nor criminals. You vilify us for our steadfast belief in the RIGHTS the Constitution grants us?

There's just no reasoning with fools.

reply to post by cbianchi513


To be honest cbianchi, I'm starting to believe that we shouldn't reason with fools period. I'm sure you've heard of communities back then that practiced Ostracism right? Essentially, idiots who posed a threat to the community with their idiotic ideas were simply ignored and given no influence. Since they were not allowed to have any real influence (political power etc.) they could never actually enact their stupidity on everyone else. Oh sure, they could still practice their first amendment rights and talk their nonsense to their hearts content. But people also simply practiced their right to ignore them. Giving them no influence or sway over anybody.

Unfortunately though, in the effort to be more "progressive" these idiots have been given way too much power and way too much influence over not only communities, but our nation as a whole, and unfortunately, Ostracism alone won't do, we'll have to literally take them out of power, physically if need be before they ruin the country further.

reply to post by Question


Oh yeah, I remember ostracism... Then again, I had a strong healthy interest in history, especially American, not to mention a slew of objective teachers. I was lucky to have such instructors... They are few and far between today.

The Amish (yes, I live right beside Lancaster county) have their own version of this today, and it works exceptionally well for them.

As the saying goes: Those that neglect to learn history, are doomed to repeat it.

What amuses me, is americans assert that Guns don't kill people, people kill people.
Let's be honest, though. The gun probably helps, doesn't it? I don't think walking up to someone and shouting BANG is going to do too much damage (unless they had a really bad heart problem).

Originally posted by cbianchi513

Originally posted by NWOhereNOW

It would have saved countless lives had we not engaged in war... Fathers and husbands would not have been killed. Blacks would not have been enslaved.

By whose measure? George III? Oh wait... you mean English fathers and husbands would have been saved... The colonists would still be under the Draconian rule.

When two groups DO NOT engage in war, both sides don't suffer any loses.

Slavery??? What a shining example of historical revision! Boy, you're American History teacher must be a real card!

Yes, slavery existed... historical revision? Try Draconian rule for historical revision.

What on Earth are you talking about? Learn to read!

It could be argued that the only reason slavery continued past the revolution is that it was not deemed a popular enough issue to revise until after the war of northern aggression.

Right.. and I suppose you'll tell me next that slavery wasn't that bad?

There are scores of others on this board that are like minded. We are neither psychopaths, nor criminals. You vilify us for our steadfast belief in the RIGHTS the Constitution grants us?

There's just no reasoning with fools.

Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish... and when your RIGHTS are TAKEN AWAY by REPEAL OF AMENDMENT... and by LAW...

What will be your excuse then? Will you gladly give up your weapons because the constitution does not guarantee you the right?

No, you will still try to keep them. Quit using the constitution as an EXCUSE... and your PERSONAL DOORMAT.... as a reason for you wanting to wield the power of death in your hand.

You know NOTHING of the constitution, or it's purpose. It is not a static document.

Do you really think you reserve the right to carry a nuclear sidearm?

In 500 years, the constitution will be gone. Replaced, like the one previous to it.

Hell, it could be replaced due to the issue of gun ownership! How much of a kick in the nuts would that be to you?

I don't understand. Which constitution previous to this one?

respectfully

reluctantpawn

reply to post by NWOhereNOW


Maybe it is you that seems to forget what the constitution is about. The constitution, or at least the bill of rights (the first 10 amendments) are simply a reminder of people's natural laws. If you remember correctly, these are INALIENABLE which means? they CANNOT CHANGE! Also, you forget that these rights are ENDOWED by our creator (God, allah, spaghetti monster, whatever) Therefore, neither YOU nor the government hold the power to strip the people of these rights.

So what happens if they try to strip us of our rights by using the very same document against us? DUH! It's immediately considered unconstitutional and therefore such act is null and void. The amendments (or at least the bill of rights) CANNOT be changed (do you REALLY need a lesson on what Inalienable means?) what CAN be done, is amend it, or in other words ADD to it, but even that is a slipery slope as prohibition has clearly shown. Oh sure, they can try all they want to make it "unconstitutional" to bear arms, lets see how long that lasts.

As stated, the bill of rights (first 10 amendments) can be seen as reminders of what our natural born rights are. We are BIRTHED with these rights, the right to speak our mind, the right to defend ourselves, the right to defend myself properly in court, etc. etc. Nobody can take these rights away unless we let them. So yes, we will continue to practice our right to bear arms even if somehow the idiots in power managed to "change" the constitution to reflect that. We will continue to defend ourselves against a rogue govt. or cowards such as yourself who are to afraid of even their neighbors, that they feel they need to enforce some kind of draconian rule in order to feel "safe"

If you honestly have such a low view of your God given rights, that you're too willing to give them away in order to feel "safe" then perhaps you might consider another haven like Cuba, or Hitler's 3rd reich Germany, to see what your kind of "we don't need to defend ourselves" philosophy does to people.

Oh, and by the way, the founders in fact DID intend for the constitution (at least the bill of rights) to be static. Why? Because this way it would be incredibly hard to change said rights in case some power hungry nut job would have a hard time trying to take over the country. One of them I believe (I think it was T. Jefferson) even stated that if this was NOT to be the case (keeping the constitution as a static document) then all their efforts and all the blood and lives lost were for nothing. What would be the point of having the constitution in the first place, if somebody can come in and enslave them again just by using a pen?

Why do you think even AMENDING the constitution is so hard in the first place? They knew times would change, but they wanted to make sure that the law wasn't to change so easily either, that it would allow dictators to take power by using the law to their benefit.

[edit on 1-6-2009 by Question]

Originally posted by reluctantpawn
I don't understand. Which constitution previous to this one?

respectfully

reluctantpawn

He's referring to the continental congress. Before the constitution and before the federal govt. The 13 colonies had to in essence, form an interim sort of govt. after defeating the British. This was done in order to try and make sure there was some sense of order in the colonies WHILE they worked on the constitution. Remember, they did just come out of a big war, things were bound to be chaotic.

reply to post by thewind


The current administration needs to understand that all Texas take pride in gun ownership and that will never change, NEVER!

Ciao!

[edit on 03/31/2009 by rgseymour]

reply to post by NWOhereNOW


Wow, these guys are quick... I don't even get the progressive jack slap on this one! Thanks Question and reluctantpawn...

I will add a further point:

Originally posted by Question

If you honestly have such a low view of your God given rights, that you're too willing to give them away in order to feel "safe" then perhaps you might consider another haven like Cuba, or Hitler's 3rd reich Germany, to see what your kind of "we don't need to defend ourselves" philosophy does to people.

I respectfully submit that our progressive friend also considers England or Australia, who have already willingly turned in their firearms. Why not ask somebody among the many on this board from those countries how that's working out for them?

You see, this will all come full circle, and God willing, we'll be able to help pull our cousins across the pond from the jaws of the NWO when we are finished picking their parasites from our country.


[edit on 1/6/09 by cbianchi513]

reply to post by rgseymour


I honestly am starting to wish you guys would secede already that way I can pack up and move there. Honestly, if there's one state that's better prepared to be it's own country, especially since it already was its own country in the past, it's the Republic of Texas.

reply to post by James Random


You're right, but I can also use a fork or a kitchen knife just as effectively (Yes, I actually CAN, I'm actually more proficient in melee weapons than I am in guns) so should we start banning kitchen utensils? Baseball bats? Where is the line drawn? I'm actually pretty good at mixed martial arts (could never really learn just ONE form of martial arts) and know certain techniques that can in fact kill people should I choose to use them, should I be put in prison because I choose to practice a form of self defense?

Again, it's not the tool (gun, fork, whatever) it's the PERSON using them and how effective that person is at using said tool.

My father was a cop for 10 years, and I remember him even stating that there are certain caliber weapons that he feels that if he really needed to, he could actually take a bullet from. Crazy, I know, I asked about it, he said that simply put, certain bullets don't really cause that much devastating damage because of how small they are. These are usually reserved for small game hunting. But since a lot of stupid criminals don't know this, and all they see is a gun a "tool of death" they honestly don't know WHAT kind of tool they're buying.

So again, another example, it's not the tool, it's how proficient and knowledgeable the person is on killing people.

The question is not about their plans to take our guns, the questions is IF and HOW you intend to surrender them. They can have mine, bullets first; want to bet how many I can get when theres any warning of collection at all with an M1A1 National Match and a M6 Sniperscope with hand loaded super match bullets? Can you say 'tagged and bagged' and stacked like cord wood?

Originally posted by thewind
reply to post by jitombe

 

"So you think having your own guns will protect you from the nwo?"


Which house would you rather rob, the one who you know is an armmed citizen, or the one you know is completely helpless? If you read my post closely, you'd have understood it's meaning?

The coming apocalypse is not the nwo, it's the robbing and killing by average citizens who will do what they have to to keep from starving!

Also, do you think that the PTB can ever be voted outta office? Elections are rigged, and that's a fact! The only way we're ever gonna be rid of the nwo is to kill the head and let the body die! This feat can be done without the firing of a single shot from any gun, but you'll never get anybody to go along with it!

Ya wanna kill the NWO? Stop spending their worthless FIAT currency, and demand that our gov't start printing american currency! All americans should just simply walk off their jobs and refuse to work and not allow anybody else to go in and do their job! I just read an article where a congressman said that banks own and run our gov't. Truer words were never ever said!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Banks run Congress, top Democrat says
By John Byrne
rawstory.com...

You can't be serious with the statement that all Americans should simply walk off their jobs, etc? As far as banks go, they are the main body of the nwo and they control the fate of the world's economy, deal with it. The nwo is untouchable no matter what you think you can do to stop them. It's just nice to think that sheeple such as myself can make a difference when I know that reality dictates otherwise.

Originally posted by Question
reply to post by NWOhereNOW

 

Maybe it is you that seems to forget what the constitution is about. The constitution, or at least the bill of rights (the first 10 amendments) are simply a reminder of people's natural laws. If you remember correctly, these are INALIENABLE which means? they CANNOT CHANGE! Also, you forget that these rights are ENDOWED by our creator (God, allah, spaghetti monster, whatever) Therefore, neither YOU nor the government hold the power to strip the people of these rights.

As stated, the bill of rights (first 10 amendments) can be seen as reminders of what our natural born rights are. We are BIRTHED with these rights, the right to speak our mind, the right to defend ourselves, the right to defend myself properly in court, etc. etc. Nobody can take these rights away unless we let them. So yes, we will continue to practice our right to bear arms even if somehow the idiots in power managed to "change" the constitution to reflect that. We will continue to defend ourselves against a rogue govt. or cowards such as yourself who are to afraid of even their neighbors, that they feel they need to enforce some kind of draconian rule in order to feel "safe"

You are living in circular reasoning fantasy land.

How do you know God exists?
Because the bible said so!
How can you believe the bible?
Because God wrote it!

Those papers, those amendments, are not some magical blanket that changes reality and protects us. We only have rights because those in power agree to give us those rights and agree to play the game of rules.

How do you know its a right to own a weapon?
Because the constitution says so!
How can you believe the constitution?
Because its a right to own a weapon!

Rules can be broken. Governments can be dissolved. Martial law can be implemented. Rights can be taken away. You may be happy with your guns, but they'll be happier standing over your dead corpse.

How about a quote from one of the founding fathers?

I go further, and affirm that bills of rights, in the sense and in the extent in which they are contended for, are not only unnecessary in the proposed constitution, but would even be dangerous. They would contain various exceptions to powers which are not granted; and on this very account, would afford a colorable pretext to claim more than were granted. For why declare that things shall not be done which there is no power to do?

It's obvious today that the second aendment is a colorable pretext to claim more than were granted.


[edit on 1-6-2009 by NWOhereNOW]

reply to post by NWOhereNOW


Again, they only have power over our rights if we LET THEM have power over our rights. You seem to misunderstand that. These are natural rights given from BIRTH. Nothing can or will change that, unless YOU yourself WILLINGLY SUBMIT and as you say "play their game" I like to call those people cowards or willingly ignorant people.

You somehow think that by posing the threat of me being killed by them is somehow going to make me change my principles because I should fear death. Listen kid, I've already accepted my mortality, there really is very little this nation is offering me in return for my hard work, now they want me to give up more of my freedoms in order to retain the same status quo. That I should TRUST THEM to protect MY family from intruders, when they obviously are having trouble wiping their own a##es, are you seriously that naive? It's NOT worth giving up my rights and my principles because of some power hungry despot.

I will be happy with my guns, they will be happy fighting me till I'm dead and I will HAPPILY die a FREE man, and not some slave dog groveling at their feet and whimpering "Please sir, can I have some more?" It must be really sad because it seems you will never understand the freedoms that were given to you, what many have fought and bled for, all so you could throw it away with a ridiculous statement such as "Well, you have to play the govt's game or else they'll kill you" You may be afraid of dieing in the field of battle, I'm more afraid of dieing a worthless, dispensable slave-bot.

This is the problem with you, you have been brainwashed into thinking you are no longer free, that your birth rights - as decreed in the bill of rights - are somehow "a privilege endowed by the government" when even the mention of such a thing is utter ridiculousness. Driving is a privilege, even higher education is a privilege, BUT, the right to LIFE, to LIBERTY, the right to VOICE your opinions and ideas, the right to DEFEND yourself and your loved ones from harm, be it from street criminals, or from govt. criminals, these are NOT privileges, these are 100% unchangeable, inalienable rights endowed to you the moment you were born! and NOTHING, not YOU, not the GOVERNMENT, NOT ANYBODY can change that! Not even the very burning of our constitution.

If you can't understand that, if you can't understand what it was our very own founding fathers were trying to do then I honestly feel very sorry for you. It must really REALLY suck being you and living with your kind of attitude. Why? Because you will obviously have that nagging conscious always telling you that you're a slave to whatever the govt. tells you to do, when you should be more concerned in pursuing your own goals (as long as you don't do something that infringes on someone else's right)

I came to the realization years ago that Liberals were totally retarded and probably brain washed. I have plenty of guns and to be honest I also know how to use them quite well. I think We will see another civil war in the future and the funny thing is those fools won't be armed because they are pussies that cry over guns. I found out as a child the best way to get over the fear of the dark was to turn off the stinking lights and go to sleep. You know what 36 years later and the boogey man still hasn't came for me. So why all this fear over guns. I can't understand it at all. The only time I am going to be afraid of a gun is when a thug is pointing one at me and I don't posses one. So since I don't want to snivel and cower like a wimp I'll just get some more guns so I can live my life without fear. You guys think every solution to Your problems lies in some mysterious government program that will solve all the worlds problems. I hate to break it to You but the government is full of evil corrupt people that think nothing of stealing from you. The worst part is these people think nothing of killing people like You because in the end as long as their goal is complete no cost is to high. So keep drinking that kool aid and keep listening to the MSM babel that everyone that has a gun is evil unless the work for the gubermint.

reply to post by Question


I am sorry you aren't familiar with me yet. It was sarcastic humor. And I am not so sure that he even knows of what he is speaking. The apparent lack of history and the current world view that is espoused in his posts is alarming. Even more so that it is becoming the main line beliefs of the current generations. Nikita Kruschev once said that they would take over this country without firing a single shot. This is the method of choice. Convince the young that what America stands for is invalid. Thus overthrowing the government through attrition of its patriots. Unfortunately I am less patient than many here for childhood indulgences into utopian pipedreams.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

We do not need to fear the NWO. Everyone keeps talking about these elected officials as being the puppets. Take a close look in the mirror because we are the actual puppets. Sure they take our guns, thats great who cares, well I care but for arguements sake lets say I dont. Now all these law abiding citizens who would only use their weapons in self defense of themselves and their families (people like me) have no protection. The only people who will have a gun are those who acquire them illegally and with the intent to potentially rob someone or they acquire them for the known act that they want to kill someone. Now, you take away the guns of the lawful citizens that is only going to make it that much easier for these "thugs" to cause chaos. They will not have to worry about which home they go into, because guess what, the law abiding citizen is going to give up his guns because it's the law not to have a gun. So hey I'm a thug walking down the street see a beautiful 2 story house, a $70,000 car pull into the driveway, wow what a perfect place to go and rob. There will be no resistance because hey no one wants to gets shot.
Now lets take this one step further. Lets put it into terms all you parents with daughters can grasp, as I have a daughter myself. Man breaks into your house, you gave up your guns (which you would only use to protect yourself) but you gave them up because its the law. Now this man pulls out a gun and makes you watch as he "does things" to your daughter. You and your daughter are terrified because he has a gun and you both dont want to get shot. So you can only sit and watch.
This is how the NWO is going to take over. It is going to use the general population ( their puppets) to do the depopulation, cause the chaos. Then when they deem fit martial law will be implemented to "rid" these people and make everything ok. So ask yourself these two questions....

Who is really the puppet?
Are you really willing to give up your rights( right to bear arms), the rights our country was founded on?

reply to post by Question
That's exactly my point! Don't give them any chance to exploit the new currency! We need to send a message to the world, which is, there's a new sheriff in town, and he is the american people, not a gov't/nwo puppet!

If foreign nations choose not to do business with america, that's okay too, and when they get their panties in a bind, they can get them outta their tangles all by themselves and not scream for america to help them!

America has the means to be a self-sustaining country, and we don't really need foreign trade of any type to keep a very healthy and substantial lifestyle. Greed is what has robbed us all of the american dream, and it's time for we, the american people to depend on ourselves for a change! "Self-dependence" is the only "real change" that we can ever believe in!