The Spear of Destiny

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
However there is a great film about it, based on one of history's best cartoons, Hellblazer, and the film is called Constantine, after the main character in the magasines, John Constantine, played by Kenau Reeves. A mustsee for anyone interrested in mystics surrounding our civilisation. This film gives an alternate take on what happened to the spear after the war, and if Hitler found it magic a century ago, it sure is in the world of John Constantine.

The film is very, very, very loosely based on the comic book series, and they should, in my opinion, not be compared. For one thing, as fond as I am of Mr Reeves, he does not look anything like Sting. And for another, he’s American. Little things. Soon mount up.

As far as the Spear of Destiny goes, Trevor Ravenscroft wrote a very interesting book about it. As magical as it may or may not be, I don’t think it did Hitler any particular favours, but then, if the tale of Frederick Barbarossa is to be believed, he should have been holding it at all times. I don’t think he did, that I’ve noticed, and you’d probably notice that sort of thing.

reply to post by shamhat


Indeed, John Constantine is tall, blueeyed and blonde in Hellblazer and not exactly the spitting image of mr. Reeves. But still, if you see the movie and the comic books as separate concepts they both get snake eyes on my dice any time.....

The whole Longinus myth needs a little background, it seems.

First there is the Name Longinus, the Latinized from Greek longche (λόγχη), a spear.

It first appears lettered on a Crucifixion beside the figure of the soldier holding a spear, written in horizontal Greek letters, Loginos around the yeaar 715 CE.

So the name is mythical.

Also the phrase placed into the Syrian Centurion's mouth in the 1st and 3rd gospels ('this is the son of god' ) is also a myth. Luke translates the phrase 'this man was a son of the gods' meaning 'an innocent man' i.e. this man did not deserve this.

So the words placed into 'Longinus' mouth are also mythical.

As for the spear itself, although it is a very pretty artifact, and resembles Roman military spears of the 2nd and 3rd century CE, it could never be proved either way if it was around to be used at Pesach ('passover') in 36CE when R. Yehoshua bar Yosef was arrested for armed rebellion against Rome by arming his own disciples 'with swords' on the hill (Luke 22:40-50)--and well, looked how that turned out.

As others have rightly pointed out on this thread, relics in the 3rd to 18th century were very big business ($$$) for the Roman Catholic (and Greek) church in Europe and North Africa.

If one were to collect in one place all the pig and horse bones that had been sold (and re-sold) to the gullible masses fobbed off as St Peter's body parts over the centuries you'd have half a tonne of material to work with.

Now THAT'S what I call doing business !!

reply to post by Sigismundus


Another important thing I mentioned earlier in this discussion about the name Longinus, is that one of the conspiritors against Julius Cæsar held that name.

As for this spear resembling 2nd century Roman weapon design, I beg to differ. The Romans didn't use spears like this, and as far as I know it was carbon dated once, but the results were kept secret, as if the artifact was either much older than believed or of much more recent origin than thought and claimed. Personally I believe the Vienna spear is as old as Tubalcain, the son of Lamech on Cain's leg. The Romans didn't make blades of bronze did they? Steel and iron was much cheaper and easier to get hold of than bronze. and much stronger too.

Just like the aeroplanes won WW1 and the atomic bomb won WW2 this artifact won the stone age, I believe.

[Post removed by poster]

[edit on 9/29/09 by silent thunder]

Another name of the Roaman officer is Pantera which means cat or lion.

And the story goes that he was later executed by his superiours for having helped a convicted "criminal" survive the crucifiction. There is no greater love than to give your life so others may live.

Judas was the one dying, not Jesju, he simply just stopped breathing for a while, dead men don't bleed. Iscariot hanged himself, probably because he had eaten too much of the unleavened bread and wine. What happens in your stomac if you eat too much of this bread and drink to much leavened drinks, well, it will start to ferment produce heat (which in right proportion is a pro if you have to leave Egypt in the middle of the night and spend the nights in temperatures way below the freezing point) and you may literally burst. The story goes that Judas Iscariot hanged himself and burst open.

Blessed Jesju survived, and it was the result of the greatest rescue operation in history. We simply can't see our greatest hope die. We watch as Jesju spake unheared words in a new language and gave up his spirit because it was the will of the mindless sheep of this world, and how thes centurion pierced his thorax, and received knowledge of healing from his wound.

[edit on 29/9/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/1aaa9ae6bfcb.jpg[/atsimg]

"He who posesses the Spear of Destiny, holds the fate of the world in his hands....."

[edit on 8/10/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
The spear is on earth. Below is a link to Kunsthistorischer Museum Wien where the spearhead is kept to this date:

www.khm.at...

Too much has been said about this relic for all to be true, but maybe this lance is the reason why that Morgenstern character wins all the ski jumping contests....

The Spearhead and the stick it is attached to is still intact. It was transfered out of Germany roughly about 1947 - 1949, some say it went to Jerusalem, others say The Vatican, but in reality it went to The USA. How do you think The US has been able to do pretty well whatever it wants without no one saying anything about it? That's because it's in our possession.

Jerusalem and The Vatican salivate trying to get their hands on it but a spiritual mandate during The 1949 Berlin Conference prohibited any particular nation or particular entity from having total control over it. Currently it is being held by certain elements in The US in trust of The Vatican which The Vatican cannot use or harness its powers.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


Though your assumption may sound like an exciting solution, the lance is kept in Vienna at Kunsthistorisches Museum. See link for details:

The Vienna Lance

You may be talking about another lance, the so called Vatican Lance which was found during the First Crusade. As you can see in the picture below it's a completely different lance:

Vatican Lance

It is the Vienna Lance which was taken by the Americans towards the end of WW2, but it was returned to Vienna shortly after the War. This was also the lance Hitler had in his possession.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
reply to post by TheImmaculateD1

 

Though your assumption may sound like an exciting solution, the lance is kept in Vienna at Kunsthistorisches Museum. See link for details:

The Vienna Lance

You may be talking about another lance, the so called Vatican Lance which was found during the First Crusade. As you can see in the picture below it's a completely different lance:

Vatican Lance

It is the Vienna Lance which was taken by the Americans towards the end of WW2, but it was returned to Vienna shortly after the War. This was also the lance Hitler had in his possession.

That's a replica as the real one is in The USA in a secret hiding spot. You do not put something with that much power and signifigance on public display Remember how easy it was to steal The Mona Lisa? You do not want this on public display.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

That's a replica as the real one is in The USA in a secret hiding spot. You do not put something with that much power and signifigance on public display Remember how easy it was to steal The Mona Lisa? You do not want this on public display.

Oh dear. Are you saying the Mona Lisa is a replica too? Straight after the Spear was returned, there rose speculation whather the spear was the original one. I am sure the Austrians have checked it to make sure it really is the same piece as Hitler stole. I don't believe in hocus pocus, and like I said earlier in this thread, the reason behind the Lance giving whosoever possess it world power must be due to it once being hi tech weaponry thus giving it's owner extra power, since I believe Tubalcain blacksmithed it in a time when most people were using regular Cains, simple pointed sticks of wood. It is the design of it which brings the power, not the actual piece. Take a look at the picture where I have placed a blueprint of an F-16 over the Lance. Now that's quite amasing, showing how the US understood it's significance as a masterpece with more than one application. Tubal-cain means Spearhead or "At the End of Cain", he is also the last named pre-flood descendant of Cain. But he certainly wasn't the last Kenite. The people of Cain survived the Flood, a story untold in the Bible.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1

That's a replica as the real one is in The USA in a secret hiding spot. You do not put something with that much power and signifigance on public display Remember how easy it was to steal The Mona Lisa? You do not want this on public display.

Oh dear. Are you saying the Mona Lisa is a replica too? Straight after the Spear was returned, there rose speculation whather the spear was the original one. I am sure the Austrians have checked it to make sure it really is the same piece as Hitler stole. I don't believe in hocus pocus, and like I said earlier in this thread, the reason behind the Lance giving whosoever possess it world power must be due to it once being hi tech weaponry thus giving it's owner extra power, since I believe Tubalcain blacksmithed it in a time when most people were using regular Cains, simple pointed sticks of wood. It is the design of it which brings the power, not the actual piece. Take a look at the picture where I have placed a blueprint of an F-16 over the Lance. Now that's quite amasing, showing how the US understood it's significance as a masterpece with more than one application. Tubal-cain means Spearhead or "At the End of Cain", he is also the last named pre-flood descendant of Cain. But he certainly wasn't the last Kenite. The people of Cain survived the Flood, a story untold in the Bible.

Some say that The Mona Lisa when it was stolen in 1911 that the original dissappeared.

reply to post by TheImmaculateD1


As with "the Spear of Destiny" I am sure they made damn sure "Mona Lisa" is the original they have in possession. The age of radio carbon testing has made it extremely difficult for forgers to operate. Although the Italian who was arrested with the painting could have produced a "perfect copy" in the two years he held it in his possession. Afterall he was a painter. Of walls and celeins atleast...

Separating Myths and Truths.
------------------------------

1. The Nephlim had shown an ancient forefather on weapons creation successfully. In that era, it indeed had been a weapon of destiny, for it slewed the nephlim's enemies. But it was only for a time, as mankind soon learnt how to fashion similar tools and fought back.

At the end of the day, it is only a tool, nothing magical.


2. A common Roman soldier would not have the priviledge to be carrying such a revered relic under the sun and rain. His spear is another, and is only of historical significance, not of magic or holiness, etc.

The one whom he speared was not an immortal, but only a man in flesh, who was determine to teach mankind the better path, and took on human form. It is his inviolable SPIRIT, that the spear could never touch.

Thus the spear is only another common spear, nothing magical.

Such tools are thus ordinary, and could do no more than the purpose it was original made - to defend or to kill. There is no harm in respecting it, holding reverence to it, for it brought a sense of history and perspective on mankind that later era can learn from and acknowledge with.

Our Creator had wisely and long prevented us from worshipping material and inanimate objects. Such objects cannot help in any way.

What would help would be our Creator's teachings. His words, if un-misinterpretated by man, are the only 'magic' - which is logic, reason and science - that we need in our daily lives to fulfil mankind's destiny.....

Some of these threads make me wonder what century I'm living in.

reply to post by Neo Christian Mystic


Thanks for the info I have never heard of this story befor.What a relic that could be made from a being from the heavens.That is awesome!

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
Separating Myths and Truths.
------------------------------

1. The Nephlim had shown an ancient forefather on weapons creation

The Nephilim were the hybrid children of the sons of God, and they didn't teach man much other than that they were fearsome giants and monsters. It was one of the sons of God who taught man to make weapons, namely Azazeel.

As for the "common Roman soldier", he was a centurion, a higher officer, and he might have been much more also. Perhaps a limb of some secret organisation, a holy bloodline? Who knows.

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
The Nephilim were the hybrid children of the sons of God, and they didn't teach man much other than that they were fearsome giants and monsters. It was one of the sons of God who taught man to make weapons, namely Azazeel.

So why would they be called 'heroes of old, men of reknown' if they were monsters?