The Spear of Destiny

Will the Spear of Destiny make you invincible, all powerful and immortal? Will he who possesses this relic get the power to kill whole battlefields in a breath? Will anyone killed by this spear automatically become damned or saved? Many things have been said and believed when it comes to one of the most bizarre relics of our civilisation, the elusive Spear of Destiny or Longinus' Lance, Lancae Longini in it's proper Latin. And one is certain, it touches the very foundations of Christendom and hides more than one tale, just in principle. And the eighth century Catholic Gollum would go: How much more in real life? I give you...:

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The Spear of Destiny

According to the Bible, the Roman officer at the foot of the cross became a Christian instantly, proclaiming Jesus to be the Son of God when Jesus stopped breathing, uppon which the officer pierced his lance in Jesju's chest, and water mixed with blood flowed out of the wound -- instead of breaking his bones like he and his soldiers did to the other two, something which might actually have saved his life, for had they broken his bones according to their methods, it would most certainly have killed him or at best crippled him until Death would come by on his sulphurous horse. However Death wasn't occupied with Jesus that day, he survived, and most certainly because of what many Christians and Bible scholars forget, appart for the fact that surgeants today still pierce the chest of patients with ruptures in their longue, in order to relieve air pressure and drain the thorax for blood and condensed water. His special treatment on the cross. How his corpus was first miraculously saved from being broken into pieces and secondly from ending up in the fires of Gehenna, which is translated Hell in most Bibles. Gehenna is a garbage dump in the Ben Hinnom valley outside the old walls of Jerusalem where they cremated executed- and/or dead criminals and other un-touchables.

Anyway, let's get back to the actual subject of this thread, the Spear of Destiny. The officer or Roman Centurion is not named in any of the books we know, but tradition has it he was called Longinus or Panthera, some even call him Gaius Cassius Longinus or in different combination. This name, however, is identical with the name of one of the conspirators who killed Julius Cæsar nearly a century earlier, so I guess the name Longinus is a bit spurious, and I sense perhaps something like what happened to names like Judas and Quissling etc. We humans have a tendency to honor the worst of our kind by making their names eternal. But to make things simpler I will call the centurion Longinus in the coming few paragraphs since it's the most common name from which we know the guy.

In Satanism and occultism, as in Christianity, the Spear of destiny is a sacred relic. What is even stranger is that both Satanists and Christians keep it in it's elevated regard because of the same reason as if it had been agreed upon: It was not the crusifiction that killed Jesus, it was Longinus or more precisely, his spear, Lancea Longini. For the Church it was crucial that Jesus died on the cross in order to explain their existence and right to ecclecial and secular power, and for the Satanist the answer is too obvious to even mention, but it still resonates in harmony to that of the Church. Myth covers secrets about how Jesus survived the cross and lived happy days ever after together with lady Rosemary and their children in Europe until he died an old man at 120 and buried with his fathers in England.

According to tradition Longinus was later sentenced to death by his Roman superiors and executed because Jesus survived the crusifiction.

There are many candidates to being the true Lancea Longini around today, but a few stands out as the most prominent ones. Firstly the Catholic relic known as the Vatican Lance, the Echmiadzin Lance and the Vienna Lance or Hofburg spear which belonged to the emperors of the Holy Roman Empire. The official Catholic one is the one with the longest known history attached, but it is the Vienna Lance that has caught the most attention. Among it's admirerers are Napoleon and Hitler. Hitler even managed to get his hands on it in 1939 after having been obsessed by the spearhead since he as a child is supposed to have seen it in an exhibition in Vienna. According to Wikipedia Hitler believed he would become invincible if he owned the relic, as if the blade possessed supernatural powers, though that sounds a bit biased. The man wasn't stupid. After the war it was given back to Austria by an american officer, and it has been locked down ever since. However there is a great film about it, based on one of history's best cartoons, Hellblazer, and the film is called Constantine, after the main character in the magasines, John Constantine, played by Kenau Reeves. A mustsee for anyone interrested in mystics surrounding our civilisation. This film gives an alternate take on what happened to the spear after the war, and if Hitler found it magic a century ago, it sure is in the world of John Constantine.

[edit on 25/5/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

You're forgetting the moon that was blood and darkness over the land at the sixth hour. Which of course would be a coincidence by literal definition of the word meaning "This is the Son of God."

[edit on 5/25/2009 by watchtheashes]

Great post s & f

I always wondered where the legend behind the powers of the spear of destiny came from - why world leaders clamoured to own it

I watched a documentary a few years ago which revealed that the spear (in the picture in your OP) was a fake - built up over the years - BUT in the centre of the spear is an ancient nail - thought to be one of the Jesus crucifiction nails.

If this is not the original spear (who knows) - who has the real spear?

I can see why it would be valuable if it contained any traces of blood - dna for the purposes of research / cloning although I am not sure how viable this would be

PS I agree, Constantine is a great film x

What's puzzled me about that spear in particular in the OP, is why on earth is it so elaborately crafted? Wouldn't it have just been a roman army standard issue throw away in the heat of battle sort of spear?
It's this sort of thing that makes me question the validity of a lot of alleged relics...

Originally posted by suziwong
I can see why it would be valuable if it contained any traces of blood - dna for the purposes of research / cloning although I am not sure how viable this would be

I doubt, atleast with todays technology if that's even close to enough dried blood on that thing which seems to have been made from bronze basically which is known to oxydise heavily over time ad concidering how it has been handled over the years.... if you could find one native protein belonging to Jesus on it , my guess is youd've been very lucky indeed.

PS I agree, Constantine is a great film x

Yeah Strange that mr. Reeves should get the role however. In the comicbooks he is blonde, blueeyed and six and a half feet. But I guess Dolph Lundgren wold have difficulties with all the difficult words and subjects.... Probably for the better.

The spear isn't actually mentioned again until the 500's (according to Wikipedia and some sources) when a pope viewed the lance and the "crown of thorns." The centurion isn't mentioned, even in exocanonical references until the 400's.

Early churches vied for holy relics; having the bones or artifacts of a saint (or a piece of the True Cross) lent validity and power to their chapels. Nobles and kings also wanted pieces of this and they were sometimes set into weapons to "imbue" them with greater power. So there was a great interest in finding (or making) "real relics."

There are actually a number of "Holy Lances" floating around. You can see from the Wikipedia article how it was used to gain political and religious power:
en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by suziwong
Great post s & f

I always wondered where the legend behind the powers of the spear of destiny came from - why world leaders clamoured to own it

I watched a documentary a few years ago which revealed that the spear (in the picture in your OP) was a fake - built up over the years - BUT in the centre of the spear is an ancient nail - thought to be one of the Jesus crucifiction nails.

If this is not the original spear (who knows) - who has the real spear?

I can see why it would be valuable if it contained any traces of blood - dna for the purposes of research / cloning although I am not sure how viable this would be

PS I agree, Constantine is a great film x

Whoa....cloaning Jesus.....That thought deserves it's own thread I think. pretty cool to think about though.

reply to post by Byrd


False relics has always been present at auctions and with antiquities dealers. It's big business, and I just read an article about how net auctions like e-bay has actually helped tracking and sometimes even arresting and charging people with fraud etc. I have read that ancient charcoal, ancient, but worthless fabrics etc. to confuse dating, is often found at these people's workshops.

Famous Church hoaxes are the Shroud of Turin found to be 1000 years younger than it was supposed to be, and studies show the "miraculous" picture of a very longnosed character is actually painted on using ocres and other pigments popular to the midaeval artists. Result: All art depicting the Saviour look the same, and all canonised pictures are based on the impression of the Turin shroud. And the Donation of Constantine, a decree supposedly issued by Constantine the Great where he basically donates the Roman Empire to the Bishop of Rome and his cardinals in the Catholic Church. How convenient. Result: How would Europe have looked had it not been forged?

[edit on 25/5/2009 by Neo Christian Mystic]

Originally posted by purehughness
What's puzzled me about that spear in particular in the OP, is why on earth is it so elaborately crafted? Wouldn't it have just been a roman army standard issue throw away in the heat of battle sort of spear?
It's this sort of thing that makes me question the validity of a lot of alleged relics...

Indeed, but this isn't just another spear, it's supposed to be humanity's first weapon made of metal, and it was crafted by the Kenite blacksmith Tubalcain, seventh generation grandson of Adam, in the tribe of Cain. Apparently it was initially crafted to battle the Nephilim. Maybe it was even made by Azazeel, the angel who taught the humans to make weapons according to Enochian tradition. The link to Tubalcain is found in Genesis. Genesis chapter 4 verse 22 tells us that Tubalcain made all kinds of tools from iron and bronze. The myth goes that along with the elusive spearhead goes a cursed blessing, that whosoever holds the spear and knows it's secrets, holds the destiny of the world in their hands, the destiny of good and evil. The undeniable truth of life and death light and darkness, good and evil.

The name Tubalcain is like a riddle, and it means "You will be carried by Cain". Cain means "Spear" as in a pointed stick, and we find it in English cane and candle. What is it a spear or a lance carries? A spearhead.

From Constantine the Great via Charlemagne to the German emperors, and eventually into the hands of Hitler, the Spear of Destiny has voven a mist of mystery around it. Does the spearhead predate the birth of Jesus by more than 2000 years, making it a pre-flood artifact.


Well, sorry, but I gotto go! I'll come back to this later....

Yeah, the Spear of Destiny / Spear of Longinus / Holy Lance has a pretty cool story and heritage attached to it, but I think that, given the medieval world's proclivity for producing "relics", it's a fairly safe bet that none of the current relics touted as being the Spear of Destiny are the real deal.

Good thread, dude!

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
Indeed, but this isn't just another spear, it's supposed to be humanity's first weapon made of metal, and it was crafted by the Kenite blacksmith Tubalcain, seventh generation grandson of Adam, in the tribe of Cain.

That right there would falsify the object. By the time of the Romans, metal weapons had been around for over 5,000 years (5,000 BC is the approximate time of appearance of the first copper weapons.) Bronze and iron appear later. The copper weapons appear in Egypt (ditto bronze) first but are also found in any culture with copper deposits.

Supposedly the starving, outnumbered members of the First Crusade dug it up when they were trapped within the walls of Antioch, surrounded in siege conditions by a vastly larger body of Arab warriors. The siege of Antioch itself is an amazing tale; first the crusaders almost starved to death trying for months to get inside the walled city. Then once they were in there, they went hog-wild, raping and looting and spilling gallons of blood. By the time all the terrified citizens had either been killed or fled, the Crusaders discovered they were now trapped *inside* the walls of Antioch. There began another multi-month epic of starvation and slow death when the will and organizational integrity of the crusading forces was tested almost to the breaking point.

Finally, in what may simply have been a good calculated PR move, somebody claimed to have found the Spear of Destiny. The Crusaders were overjoyed and soon thereafter they left the city in a strategically brilliant feint-and-charge pincer sweep, against all odds defeating the much-better equiped, larger enemy forces. The victory gave them a sense of almost intoxicating confidence, and they rallied under the Spear and went on to the final bloodbath of a victory in Jeursulam.



[edit on 5/26/09 by silent thunder]

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
Indeed, but this isn't just another spear, it's supposed to be humanity's first weapon made of metal, and it was crafted by the Kenite blacksmith Tubalcain, seventh generation grandson of Adam, in the tribe of Cain.

That right there would falsify the object. By the time of the Romans, metal weapons had been around for over 5,000 years (5,000 BC is the approximate time of appearance of the first copper weapons.) Bronze and iron appear later. The copper weapons appear in Egypt (ditto bronze) first but are also found in any culture with copper deposits.

Well, the Middle-Eastern myth like way of writing history back in the days, doesn't always parallell the archaeological records. According to Enoch and similar texts, there were weapons and tools that could be used as weapons before Tubalcain, but he was the first to master the techniques of making bronze alloys and steel. Apparently he learned this from an angel called Azazeel if I'm not mistaken, and the first perfect weapon he made was the lance with the spearhead called the Spear of Destiny. Supposedly, it was his master assignment in becoming a smelter and a blacksmith. And it was a nice piece of weaponry...

The present day location of The Spear of Destiny is somewhere in the USA as it was siezed from Nazi Germany by The US.

I possess a certain phrase when said to someone who is not the true holder of it will not work on. Only the true holder is allowed to not listen to me. Like if someone other then the rightful owner confronts me I can shut down the person using the phrase.

The phrase however will never be revealed.

And yes, those who posses it the Spear brings great power and great protection to that no entity on Earth can touch.

[edit on 28-5-2009 by TheImmaculateD1]

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
The present day location of The Spear of Destiny is somewhere in the USA as it was siezed from Nazi Germany by The US.

I possess a certain phrase when said to someone who is not the true holder of it will not work on. Only the true holder is allowed to not listen to me. Like if someone other then the rightful owner confronts me I can shut down the person using the phrase.

The phrase however will never be revealed.

And yes, those who posses it the Spear brings great power and great protection to that no entity on Earth can touch.

[edit on 28-5-2009 by TheImmaculateD1]

Im sorry, but WHAT???

how did you come by this magic phrase??? Even IF the crucifixtion was a real event, IF the christs side was pierced and IF the blade still exists, what powers does it have? Tell me ONE person who has used it to be immortal and sweep all his enemies aside. If if were true, we would have a single dictator ruling the world for 2000 years.

We havent so its nonsense

special phrases to shut people down

Well, he might not be too far off actually, because part of the yth surrounding this piece of technology has it that whoever use it wisely will conquer the world. And looking at who have owned the relic, one could but wonder. Nearly every world government is said to have held it in their possession, from the Sumerians to Hitler, and maybe even Obama......

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
Well, the Middle-Eastern myth like way of writing history back in the days, doesn't always parallell the archaeological records. According to Enoch and similar texts, there were weapons and tools that could be used as weapons before Tubalcain, but he was the first to master the techniques of making bronze alloys and steel.

That's the story as they tell it, yes, and he's mentioned in the Bible as doing this. But the first master metalsmiths weren't Hebrews. If I recall correctly, most of their work came after the captivity in Babylon.

Apparently he learned this from an angel called Azazeel if I'm not mistaken, and the first perfect weapon he made was the lance with the spearhead called the Spear of Destiny. Supposedly, it was his master assignment in becoming a smelter and a blacksmith. And it was a nice piece of weaponry...

I think this is a fairly recent Masonic tale. The apprenticeship system with master-pieces was a product of Europe and the Middle Ages. Since Azazeel isn't one of the few angels mentioned in the Bible, I'm pretty sure this is another addon from a much later date.

Originally posted by TheImmaculateD1
The present day location of The Spear of Destiny is somewhere in the USA as it was siezed from Nazi Germany by The US.

I possess a certain phrase when said to someone who is not the true holder of it will not work on. Only the true holder is allowed to not listen to me. Like if someone other then the rightful owner confronts me I can shut down the person using the phrase.

The phrase however will never be revealed.

And yes, those who posses it the Spear brings great power and great protection to that no entity on Earth can touch.

[edit on 28-5-2009 by TheImmaculateD1]

Forgive me if I think that you're a complete liar.

Really, did you honestly expect to gain some kind of advantage from this drivel?

Our religion from the bible are religious myths exaggerated when our species was young and witnessing an alien war over Earth.

Originally posted by Byrd

Originally posted by Neo Christian Mystic
Well, the Middle-Eastern myth like way of writing history back in the days, doesn't always parallell the archaeological records. According to Enoch and similar texts, there were weapons and tools that could be used as weapons before Tubalcain, but he was the first to master the techniques of making bronze alloys and steel.

That's the story as they tell it, yes, and he's mentioned in the Bible as doing this. But the first master metalsmiths weren't Hebrews. If I recall correctly, most of their work came after the captivity in Babylon.

Well, like I said, Cain wasn't Hebrew, and none of his children were. The Hebrews grew out of the seed of Sem, Noah's son of Cain's brother Seth's seed. Noah's other two sons became the Egyptians (Ham or Kam) and the Europeans (Jafet). Out of Sem's oath came Abraham who at that time lived in Sumer, or more precisely, Ur, which means Light in Hebrew. Abraham fathered Isaac and Isaac fathered Jacob or Israel and he had twelve sons, one of them being the patriarch of the modern Jews, Judeans or Judah-ites. The other eleven tribes "dissapeared" after Babylon. Only a share of the Judeans returned with a few Levites or priests from Levi tribe to rebuild the Land and the Temple.

Apparently he learned this from an angel called Azazeel if I'm not mistaken, and the first perfect weapon he made was the lance with the spearhead called the Spear of Destiny. Supposedly, it was his master assignment in becoming a smelter and a blacksmith. And it was a nice piece of weaponry...

I think this is a fairly recent Masonic tale. The apprenticeship system with master-pieces was a product of Europe and the Middle Ages. Since Azazeel isn't one of the few angels mentioned in the Bible, I'm pretty sure this is another addon from a much later date.

Azazeel is actually mentioned in the Bible (Leviticus 16), but he is best known from the Enochian tradition (ex. Book of Enoch). The Enochian tradition predates the Messianic tradition, but the Mess. trad. grew out of the En. trad.