NEW STS-48 Video - UFOs All Over!

reply to post by JimOberg


That's just shameful Jim. You're actually accusing Martyn of manipulating these videos? --- That speaks volumes about the content you're trying best to hide.

I don't get it. What's the big deal anyhow? ... So there are UFOs in some of those vids, so what?

[edit on 21/5/09 by Majorion]

Originally posted by Majorion
That's just shameful Jim. You're actually accusing Martyn of manipulating these videos? --- That speaks volumes about the content you're trying best to hide.

Huh? I'm asking Martyn to provide reference data so somebody else bsides he along gets to see the context of the original video.

Are you saying that Martyn's account alone should be totally believed without anyone checking?

That speaks volumes about how easily you can get confused and misled on this knotty subject.

Originally posted by JimOberg
Huh? I'm asking Martyn to provide reference data so somebody else bsides he along gets to see the context of the original video.

Well, here's what you said on the last page.

Whether it is a genuine NASA video or manufactured on a computer -- needs to be confirmed by providing the date/time of the supposed occurrence. Did Martyn do that?

Nobody here believes that these videos were manufactured on a computer, Jim. You're the only one whose doubting this, so maybe you should be the one to check the 'data'.

Regards,

reply to post by Exuberant1







how many times is this video going to show up on ATS any way. It has been discussed several times ice crystals the flash you see is altitude thruster causing the ice crystals to move. All i have to say is i bet this video shows up in another thread again next month because someone else doesn't know what there looking at.

Blast from the past:

STS-48 - Science Battles Wishful Thinking
By Jim Oberg
Special to ABCNEWS.com
2-20-99



As humans explore space, it's reasonable to imagine that other beings
in the universe are doing the same. Encountering explorers from other
planets have been a staple of science fiction for decades.

Videotapes from space shuttle missions have persuaded some folks that
NASA astronauts have already encountered alien visitors.

On the space shuttle mission STS-48 in September 1991, a TV onboard
Discovery spotted moving white dots suddenly changing direction when a
flash of light appeared. Although nearby debris frequently appears on
shuttle videos, the combination of flares, streaks and changing
directions grabbed imaginations.

Answering a congressional query the following month on behalf of a
curious constituent, NASA had four Houston experts - including one
astronaut, astronomer Karl Henize - examine the videos.

"The objects seen are [Discovery]-generated debris, illuminated by the
sun," they reported. "The flicker of light is the result of firing of
the attitude thrusters on [Discovery], and the abrupt motions of the
particles result from the impact of gas from the thrusters."

That didn't wash for some viewers, who believed they were seeing alien
visitors or Star Wars-like battles.

[*Nearby drifting debris has been hit by jet pulses on other shuttle
flights. Here's an example from STS-63 in February 1995. (RealVideo)]

Popular Interpretation

Enthusiasm for the UFO interpretation of space pictures isn't
restricted to a narrow band of crackpots, as any Web search
demonstrates. Mainstream writers and major TV networks also promulgate these misinterpretations.

Aside from enhancing the public's paranoia about government cover-ups,
it can have a poisonous effect on public support for space exploration
if a substantial portion of voters becomes convinced by such theories
that space experts, astronauts and scientists are lying to them.

Such space tapes are no surprise to NASA; the agency shrugs them off
as just one more phenomenon of space flight.

The STS-48 images were being collected as part of an ongoing NASA
study of unusual lightning.

The project was coordinated by NASA scientist Otha "Skeet" Vaughan, in
Huntsville, Ala. He has collected and analyzed about 500 hours of
tapes over two decades of shuttle flights, probably watching more
space video than anyone else.

Just Debris

Vaughan, who retired from NASA last month, said such dots appear
frequently. "They're an ordinary part of space flight," he says. "It's
obviously just more shuttle debris."

Astronauts aboard the STS-48 mission agree.

Mission specialist Mark Brown says ice formed on the shuttle's main
engine bells after the remaining fuel was dumped in space.

"These crystals would break free of the engines and float around the
shuttle," he says. "When illuminated by sunlight they looked like
small diamonds floating in space, disturbed only when the maneuvering
rockets fired - the plumes from the rockets would hit them and send
them off in different directions."

Shuttle co-pilot Ken Reightler says: "We saw a lot of this on STS-48
because we had a dump nozzle that was leaking." The same nozzle leaked
on the shuttle's next mission and "created the same shower of ice
particles - but this time apparently no one misinterpreted them as
UFOs."

[*Space shuttles are often surrounded by clouds of small ice particles
from dumped water or leaking jet thrusters. (RealVideo)]

'Fireflies'

Small particles flaking off manned spacecraft have been around since
John Glenn saw "fireflies" outside his capsule in 1962. Apollo
astronauts saw them so often they were nicknamed "moon pigeons." A
NASA study in 1971 traced them to propellant leaks, water dumps,
pyrotechnic separation and other ordinary events.

Yet claims for an extraordinary interpretation of the STS-48 images
persist, coming from respectable and seemingly rational people. Jack
Kasher, a physicist from Nebraska, has published an exhaustive
analysis showing why they cannot be debris. "The only feasible
explanation," he concludes, "is that they actually were spacecraft out
in space away from the shuttle."

Mark Carlotto, an imaging specialist in Massachusetts, published a
1995 report in the Journal of Scientific Exploration, claiming that
"beyond a reasonable doubt" the objects could not be explained as
known phenomena.

Shedding Light

Two factors - sunlight and the steering-jet pulses - explain the
videotape.

The shuttle TV cameras observed lightning on the night side of Earth.
But as the shuttle circled toward the day side, it rose into sunlight
even while the camera remained fixed on the still-dark horizon behind
it. So objects near the shuttle suddenly become illuminated - and it's
precisely at sunrise that the most famous "shuttle UFO videos" show
the appearance of these dots.

The autopilot normally fires the shuttle's steering jets to keep the
craft on course. Telemetry readouts from STS-48 show exactly such a
jet firing at the time of the mystery pulse.

Space junk and thruster gas are a lot less exciting than alien
visitors and space battles, so the popularity of UFO explanations for
such videotapes will persist. But if recent studies prove anything, it
is that the less one knows about space flight, the more likely one is
to swallow the idea of space shuttles spotting UFOs.

Originally posted by Majorion
Nobody here believes that these videos were manufactured on a computer, Jim. You're the only one whose doubting this, so maybe you should be the one to check the 'data'.

Regards,

Notice how suddenly the 'proof' has to come from a doubter who only asked for verifiable parameters such as [gasp!] date and time of the video. Neat trick -- refuse to provide the info needed to independently verify a claim, and whine that any doubter is calling the claimer a liar.

Originally posted by JimOberg
Notice how suddenly the 'proof' has to come from a doubter who only asked for verifiable parameters such as [gasp!] date and time of the video. Neat trick -- refuse to provide the info needed to independently verify a claim, and whine that any doubter is calling the claimer a liar.

Proof of what, Jim? -- Why does the date/time even matter?

The videos are real. The contents of the videos are real and do not change with date and time factors, it makes no difference with discussion of these videos. I get the distinct feeling that you're going to look for any way to deflect rather than actually discuss those videos Jim. You're 'prosaic' explanations are just not gonna cut it this time.

Originally posted by Majorion

Originally posted by JimOberg
Notice how suddenly the 'proof' has to come from a doubter who only asked for verifiable parameters such as [gasp!] date and time of the video. Neat trick -- refuse to provide the info needed to independently verify a claim, and whine that any doubter is calling the claimer a liar.

Proof of what, Jim? -- Why does the date/time even matter?

Why does the date/time even matter?

Tell me -- is the sun 'out' or not, in this scene?

Doesn't that tell you fundamentally important info on the nature of the illumination of the dots?

Tell me -- what thrusters fired during this interval?

Tell me -- what were the astronauts talking about with Mission Control?

What were ANY of the primary witnesses observing, when interviewed?

Are you saying that none of this matters?????????

You don't WANT any possible prosaic explanation -- and you seem willing the 'stack the deck' and cover up any relevant context, to stymie investigation into the video.

Whose mind is open, and whose is closed, in this instance?

reply to post by Majorion


Maybe Jim is trying to admit to NASA being the one who "manufactured" this tape's contents....

He is the only person on ATS to ever accuse STS footage of being computer manufactured - And since that footage was got from NASA's own Channel.....

We already know NASA manipulates the image data they release to the public - maybe Jimbo wants to let the public know they do the same to videos;



*Majorion, did you ever think you would ever see an official NASAman on ATS accusing STS mission footage (from NASA's own channel) of being computer-generated?

Hi for all you UFO lovers the ISS and SHUTTLE dumping UFO's into space for you to find.

www.youtube.com...

Watch the video see all the UFO'S being ejected!

If the white objects in the video you claim are UFO'S these look the same THEREFORE they are UFO'S AS WELL.

reply to post by wmd_2008


Yeah, Jim tried to sell us that excuse long ago. Maybe you should go catch up on all the old threads where these things were already discussed.

Originally posted by Majorion

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
I have seen similar videos from NASA years ago, in which objects seemed to be approaching Earth, then an object on Earth's orbit shoots at one of the incoming objects, and waay before it is hit it reverses speed and goes back from where it came from avoiding being hit by either a fast missile, or some sort of laser weapon.

I'm sure you mean this one: ( start from 1:40 )

This one is the most convincing of intelligent objects in space. Note how it immediately changes direction before the projectile comes blasting from Earth.

What happens on the video thruster FLASH yet again and the objects move FUNNY THAT

[edit on 21-5-2009 by wmd_2008]

Originally posted by wmd_2008

Originally posted by Majorion

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
I have seen similar videos from NASA years ago, in which objects seemed to be approaching Earth, then an object on Earth's orbit shoots at one of the incoming objects, and waay before it is hit it reverses speed and goes back from where it came from avoiding being hit by either a fast missile, or some sort of laser weapon.

I'm sure you mean this one: ( start from 1:40 )

This one is the most convincing of intelligent objects in space. Note how it immediately changes direction before the projectile comes blasting from Earth.

What happens on the video thruster FLASH yet again and the objects move

FUNNY THAT

[edit on 21-5-2009 by wmd_2008]

Gotta agree. First video is thrusters firing and particles moving accordingly and so is this. Both vids have a flash of light before anything remotely interesting happens.

2 syllables: THRUS-TERS.

[edit on 21-5-2009 by bloodline]

Originally posted by wmd_2008

What happens on the video thruster FLASH yet again and the objects move

FUNNY THAT

Even Background objects appear to move rapidly when the thrusters are fired.

It is those unidentified objects that move independently of the thrusters which you should be trying to debunk .

Nice try though!

Originally posted by Exuberant1

Originally posted by wmd_2008

What happens on the video thruster FLASH yet again and the objects move

FUNNY THAT

Even Background objects appear to move rapidly when the thrusters are fired.

It is those unidentified objects that move independently of the thrusters which you should be trying to debunk .

Nice try though!

Debunk space debris?

reply to post by bloodline


Now it's 'debris'....?

I thought you debunkers were trying to say the objects were ice crystals?

Earlier in the thread, someone was trying to blame a satellite....

Nevertheless, not one of you has been able to conclusively identify a single object.

*BTW, Ice particles do not behave in the manner in which many of these objects do. Ice particles to not maneuver under their own power, neither does debris.

Nice try though!

I believe in free speech, and so does Jim Oberg. As a fellow ATS member, he is entitled to hit back when he is questioned. It is expected & welcome. I do not take it personally.
I believe in what I see on the NASA videos are unknown objects, but he does not. No big deal. We disagree. That's what ATS is all about!...cheers

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by bloodline

 

Now it's 'debris'....?

I thought you debunkers were trying to say the objects were ice crystals?

Earlier in the thread, someone was trying to blame a satellite....

Nevertheless, not one of you has been able to conclusively identify a single object.

*BTW, Ice particles do not behave in the manner in which many of these objects do. Ice particles to not maneuver under their own power, neither does debris.

Nice try though!

You have not either so once again HOW DO YOU know how big or what any of these objects are BET you wont answer about the size will you!

Originally posted by wmd_2008

You have not either so once again HOW DO YOU know how big or what any of these objects are BET you wont answer about the size will you!

Good.

I'm glad you have finally decided to admit that you have been unable to identify any of the objects in the video. As far you are concerned; these are UFOs.

Thanks for being so candid.

Originally posted by Exuberant1
Nevertheless, not one of you has been able to conclusively identify a single object.

...
Nice try though!

Note the reason: Exubie refuses to provide documentation showing how somebody could find the video independently and compare to that presented on youtube.

It should be clear by now that all the double-talk is to conceal that Exubie doesn't WANT anyone to make this comparison and investigation. He's doing all he can to sabotage it.