It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Debunking false claims about Jehovah's Witnesses. 1-14

page: 1
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in


posted on May, 19 2009 @ 11:20 PM
Firstly all of this has been touched on, if not covered in depth all over this site, but to revisit the issue in

an orderly fashion....BTW There are many sites with the same accusations posted as facts about

Jehovah's are a few

I was introduced to this list thanks to a member here "dthwraith" in his thread titled "Jehovah's

Witnesses Christian or Cult" find it here

the debate is still on. However I would like to take the time to systematically address each of the claims

as to the doctrinal teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses as I understand them, I am not a legal

representative in any way of the Watch Tower Bible Tract Society, but I am a bible student making use

of the study aids provided by them.
so here goes.....

Debunking false claims about Jehovah's Witnesses. 1-14

posted on May, 19 2009 @ 11:23 PM
Debunking false claims about Jehovah's Witnesses. 1-14
Starting with Claim #1:
1. Source of Authority. JWs claim the Bible as their final authority, but Russell's writings, especially Studies in the Scriptures, are considered "the light of the Scriptures." JWs have their own translation of the Scriptures (New World Translation, published in 1961), which reflects the binding interpretations of the group's leaders. The JWs' New World Translation greatly perverts the Scriptures to avoid placing themselves under the judgment of God (cf. Jn. 1:1; 8:58; I Tim. 2:6; Ac. 10:36; Col. 1:16-17; 2:9-10; etc.). Hence, the leader's interpretation of the Bible, not the Bible itself, is the final authority of JWs. The Watchtower magazine is one of the JWs main sources of doctrine, and is considered authoritative by its members.

Response...JW's do claim the bible as God's word and recognize that it has been in mands hands for so long that different "versions" have distorted its orignal meaning, so along with other bible students around the world they have continually been working to produce an accurate and understandable translation into modern day languages, archeaology has been extreemly helpful in this regard now that text's from the first centruries have been found and been used to cross reference/clarify abuses in past "versions". The statement that the "NWT greatly perverts the Scriptures to avoid placing themselves under the judgment of God" is just a lie. No human is outside of God's judgement. I looked up those
scriptures in KJ NWT NLV ESV NIV and the Amplified changes that would exempt anyone from judgement were apparent to me......

posted on May, 19 2009 @ 11:28 PM
Claim #2. Trinity. JWs believe that God is not a triune God, but only "Jehovah God" (Let God Be True, pp. 100-101); they teach that Trinitarianism is a belief in three gods, and thereby, Satan-inspired polytheism. Rutherford wrote: "... sincere persons who want to know the true God and serve him find it a bit difficult to love and worship a complicated, freakish-looking, three-headed God. The clergy who inject such ideas will contradict themselves in the very next breath by stating that God made man in his own image; for certainly no one has ever seen a three-headed human creature" (Let God Be True, 2nd ed., pp. 101-102).

Response..That statement is True.
The following information is from a WTBTS publication, Reasoning from the Scriptures, pg 405 "Trininty Definition: The central doctrine of religions of Christendom. According to the Athanasian Creed, there are three divine Persons (the Father, the Son, the Holy Ghost), each said to be eternal, each said to be almighty, none greater or less than another, each said to be God, and yet together being but one God. Other statements of the dogma emphasize that these three “Persons” are not separate and distinct individuals but are three modes in which the divine essence exists. Thus some Trinitarians emphasize their belief that Jesus Christ is God, or that Jesus and the Holy Ghost are Jehovah. Not a Bible teaching. Even though, as Trinitarians acknowledge, neither the word “Trinity” nor a statement of the Trinitarian dogma is found in the Bible, are the concepts that are embodied in that dogma found there?
Does the Bible teach that the “Holy Spirit” is a person?
Some individual texts that refer to the holy spirit (“Holy Ghost,” KJ) might seem to indicate personality. For example, the holy spirit is referred to as a helper (Greek, pa·ra′kle·tos; “Comforter,” KJ; “Advocate,” JB, NE) that ‘teaches,’ ‘bears witness,’ ‘speaks’ and ‘hears.’ (John 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:13) But other texts say that people were “filled” with holy spirit, that some were ‘baptized’ with it or “anointed” with it. (Luke 1:41; Matt. 3:11; Acts 10:38) These latter references to holy spirit definitely do not fit a person. To understand what the Bible as a whole teaches, all these texts must be considered. What is the reasonable conclusion? That the first texts cited here employ a figure of speech personifying God’s holy spirit, his active force, as the Bible also personifies wisdom, sin, death, water, and blood. Does the Bible agree with those who teach that the Father and the Son are not separate and distinct individuals? Matt. 26:39, RS: “Going a little farther he [Jesus Christ] fell on his face and prayed, ‘My Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt.’” (If the Father and the Son were not distinct individuals, such a prayer would have been meaningless. Jesus would have been praying to himself, and his will would of necessity have been the Father’s will.)
John 8:17, 18, RS: “[Jesus answered the Jewish Pharisees:] In your law it is written that the testimony of two men is true; I bear witness to myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness to me.” (So, Jesus definitely spoke of himself as being an individual separate and distinct from the Father.) Is Jehovah in the “Old Testament” Jesus Christ in the “New Testament”? Matt. 4:10: “Jesus said to him: ‘Go away, Satan! For it is written, “It is Jehovah [“the Lord,” KJ and others] your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.”’” (Jesus was obviously not saying that he himself was to be worshiped.)
John 8:54: “Jesus answered [the Jews]: ‘If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father that glorifies me, he who you say is your God.’” (The Hebrew Scriptures clearly identify Jehovah as the God that the Jews professed to worship. Jesus said, not that he himself was Jehovah, but that Jehovah was his Father. Jesus here made it very clear)

[edit on 19-5-2009 by Xcouncil=wisdom]

posted on May, 19 2009 @ 11:30 PM
Next claim...
#3. God the Father. Known as Jehovah, the Watchtower considers Him to be the only true eternal God, the Almighty. They write, "There was, therefore, a time when Jehovah was all alone in universal space" (Let God Be True, p. 25). Being alone, the first creative act of Jehovah was to create His Son.

Response...Yes. That also is the belief of Jehovah's Witnesses... YLT Rev 4:11 `Worthy art Thou, O Lord, to receive the glory, and the honour, and the power, because Thou -- Thou didst create the all things, and because of Thy will are they, and they were created.' The list of scriptures giving honor and glory to Jehovah God for his creation is so vast I don't think I need to try. Suffice to say Witnesses recognize Jehovah as the original creator, it was his will that ALL things were created...that includes the
angels (on a side note they recognize satan was an angel before he turned against God) Jesus(in his pre-human form obviously), was the first of all the Angels

posted on May, 19 2009 @ 11:35 PM
4. Jesus Christ. Since JWs do not believe in the Trinity, they also do not believe that Jesus is God in the flesh. They add the word "other" four times to Colossians 1:16,17, teaching that Christ was God's first creation, i.e., the reincarnation of Michael the archangel created by Jehovah, rather than the Creator. [The "Watchtower" teaches that Jehovah God created Michael the Archangel before the foundation of the world; Michael was His only begotten son by virtue of the fact that he was the only creature directly created by Jehovah. It was this created Michael who became the JW Jesus (i.e., a denial of the eternality of Christ). JWs say that "Since actual conception took place, it appears that Jehovah God caused an ovum or egg in Mary's womb to become fertile, accomplishing this by the transfer of the life of his first born son (Michael) from the spirit realm to the earth" (Aid to Bible Understanding, p. 920). "Marvelously, Jehovah transferred the life-force and the personality pattern of his first born heavenly son (Michael) to the womb of Mary. God's own active force, his holy spirit, safeguarded the development of the child in Mary's womb so that what was born was a perfect human" (Reasoning, p. 255).] JWs also add an "a" in John 1:1, making the verse read, "the Word was a god" (which in essence, makes the JWs guilty of the same polytheism of which they accuse Trinitarians).

Response..True, Jehovah's Witnesses teach that Jesus is God's son.
About add "other" in the context of this scripture doestn't detract from the importance of Christs role in the creation, but maybe (I don't know as I have not searched for scriptures that "could" be used to promote the possibility of Christs being Jehovah before he was Christ...?) this is a sore spot for trinitarians who apparetnly use this scripture out of context. Colossians 1:12-17 NKJV "12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, 14 in whom we have redemption through His blood,[a] the forgiveness of sins. 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. 17 And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist" then here is Youngs Literal Translation "12Giving thanks to the Father who did make us meet for the participation of the inheritance of the saints in the light, 13who did rescue us out of the authority of the darkness, and did translate [us] into the reign of the Son of His love, 14in whom we have the redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of the sins, 15who is the image of the invisible God, first-born of all creation, 16because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created, 17and himself is before all, and the all things in him have consisted."
What I get out of those scriptures is that there was God the Father, who sent His son as a ransom for us, and that the son is the image of his father...I don't read in either version where this says the son is
the Father.
So, to add "other" is appropriate in the context of the scripture to let it be clear that Jesus didn't create himself. The statement made as point 4 reads ""Watchtower" teaches that Jehovah God created
Michael the Archangel before the foundation of the world" should probably read "The bible teaches that God created Michael before the foundation of the world"

posted on May, 19 2009 @ 11:36 PM
5. Use of Name Jehovah. JWs use the name "Jehovah" only for God (in order to distinguish between God and Jesus Christ), while failing to recognize that Jesus is the fulfillment of "Jehovah" in Isaiah 40:3 and Matthew 3:3. [HJB]

Response...True, Jehovah's Witnesses use the Name Jehovah only for God, as in God the Almighty, the original creator...The argument that is wrongly based on those two scriptures gives a false premise. The scripture in Matthew does quote the scripture in Isaiah and in the previous verse clearly states the one fulfilling this scripture is John the Baptizer(in the role of the herald)...the prophecy in Isaiah was not speaking of the coming of Jehovah in a physical form, but the coming of his kingdom which was the main focus of Jesus preaching work. As is the main focus of Jehovah's Witnesses today.

posted on May, 19 2009 @ 11:42 PM
6. Resurrection of Christ . JWs deny the bodily resurrection of Christ through their teaching that the body of Christ was annihilated by God -- not risen -- but rather a new one was created three days after His death. This they call the "resurrection" of Christ. Thus, Jesus was "resurrected" as a "glorious spirit creature" and does not now have a glorified physical body. Instead, they claim Jesus arose spiritually and only "materialized" at various times after His resurrection so He could be seen alive. (Awake!, 7/22/73, p. 4)

Response...I was able to find this article of the awake, and here is the information so that you may make your own decision on what is the message being put forth, from a scriptural veiwpoint...
Awake 7/22/73 Christ’s Return—Will You See It?
“THE Lord Is Coming Again!” So a headline in a popular religious biweekly recently assured its readers. Also, in 1972 a 480-page book was published bearing the title “The Return of Christ.” Clearly, the matter of Christ’s coming again is of interest to many professed Christians. But how will he come? Will you see him? By and large, those who expect Jesus personally to come again expect to see him literally, in his human form. Many even believe that they will see him in the very same body he had when on earth and in which he was put to death. In support of their belief that they will see him with their physical eyes, they quote such scriptures as Revelation 1:7, which reads: “Look! He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him.” What does this actually mean?
More than One Way of “Seeing”
There is more than one way of “seeing” something or someone. During a discussion, when a certain point is made clear, a person might say, “I see,” meaning, I understand. The Greek word o′pso·mai (a future variant form used for the defective verb ho·ra′o, “to see”) used in the text at Revelation 1:7 has that as one of its meanings. Also, at Romans 1:20, where a form of ho·ra′o occurs, we are told that God’s “invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable.” Certainly God’s “power and Godship” are “invisible qualities” and so cannot be seen by our literal eyes, but we can perceive them with the eyes of our understanding. These invisible divine qualities can be discerned or seen with the mind. So the mere fact that the Bible states that men will “see” Jesus when he returns does not of itself mean that they will see him with their physical sight and that he will appear in a physical body. That Jesus will not return in a physical body is clear from the testimony of the Scriptures. He himself revealed that he came to earth to “give his soul a ransom in exchange for many.” (Matt. 20:28) And he further said: “The bread that I shall give is my flesh in behalf of the life of the world.” (John 6:51) So, if Jesus gave his human life, including his fleshly body, as a ransom for mankind, he could not have been raised from the dead as a human, with his flesh-and-blood body. Had he taken back the human life that he sacrificed, mankind would no longer be ransomed. Moreover, Jesus could not have ascended to heaven forty days after his resurrection had he been raised as a human of flesh and blood. Why not? The Bible answers: “Flesh and blood cannot inherit God’s kingdom.” (1 Cor. 15:50) How, then, was Jesus raised from the dead? He was “made alive in the spirit.”—1 Pet. 3:18. As to Jesus’ condition since his resurrection and ascension to heaven, God’s Word says: “He is the reflection of [God’s] glory and the exact representation of his very being.” (Heb. 1:3) So he must be a spirit being, just as “God is a Spirit.”—John 4:24.

posted on May, 19 2009 @ 11:46 PM
#6 response continued....
That is why when Saul of Tarsus (on his way to persecute Christians in Damascus) met Jesus Christ, he saw no form or body but only such a bright light that it blinded him. (Acts 9:3-9) It was quite fitting that Jesus should have appeared to Saul in this manner, for the glorified Jesus is the “exact representation” of the person of his Father and God. (Heb. 1:3; John 20:17) And God is spoken of as the “Father of the celestial lights.” (Jas. 1:17) No man could see the glorious face of God and yet live. (Ex. 33:20) So, can humans on earth see the glorified Lord Jesus Christ? The Bible’s answer is, No. Of the glorified, immortal Lord Jesus Christ, 1 Timothy 6:16 says that he is one who “dwells in unapproachable light, whom not one of men has seen or can see.” This being the case, will Jesus ever again take on a corruptible body of flesh in order to be seen by humans who are too frail to endure the sight of his glorified spirit body? That is not God’s purpose respecting his Son. As the inspired apostle Paul said on one occasion: “[God] resurrected him from the dead destined no more to return to corruption.”—Acts 13:34.
Accordingly, when the Scriptures speak of “every eye” as seeing Jesus, this is manifestly to be understood in a figurative sense. As a result of what humans see and hear on earth, they will perceive that the events taking place are because Jesus Christ is taking a personal hand in the affairs of mankind.—Rev. 11:15; 12:10-12. Objections Considered But someone may object: ‘Did not the apostles see Jesus in human form after his resurrection?’ True, but he had not yet ascended to heaven and assumed his place at the right hand of God, thereafter dwelling in “unapproachable light.” Therefore he was in position to assume a human form, even as angels had materialized on other occasions. For example, an angel appeared in human form to the parents of Samson and, after accomplishing his mission, ascended in a flame out of their sight. (Judg. 13:3-21) The fact that Jesus simply materialized bodies explains why on various occasions after his resurrection he was not always immediately recognized. Also, Jesus was able to appear suddenly in the midst of his apostles even though they were in a room with the door bolted due to their fear of the Jews. That there might be no doubt that he had truly been resurrected, Jesus appeared in human form, yes, even assuming a body with visible wounds so as to convince doubting Thomas.—John 20:19-29. But do we not read at Acts 1:11, “This Jesus who was received up from you into the sky will come thus in the same manner as you have beheld him going into the sky,” and so will not Jesus return in human form? Why not read the scripture again? Note that the angel did not say that Jesus would return in like body or form, but in like manner. What was the manner in which Jesus ascended? Was it not quiet and unobserved by the world? Were not the only ones who witnessed the ascension disciples of Jesus Christ? So at his return should we not expect that his presence would be discerned initially and with appreciation only by his true followers? That this is the right understanding of matters is evident from Jesus’ words to his apostles: “A little longer and the world will behold me no more, but you will behold me, because I live and you will live.” (John 14:19) After Jesus’ resurrection and during the forty days prior to his ascension to heaven only his followers beheld him on repeated occasions. (1 Cor. 15:3-8) They also had the hope that after their own death and resurrection they would personally see Jesus Christ again. But the world of mankind alienated from God had no such hope and therefore would never again behold Jesus as a person."

posted on May, 19 2009 @ 11:58 PM
I know this is way long, bear with me...
7. The Holy Spirit. JWs deny the deity of the third person of the Trinity, as either God or as a person; they claim that the Holy Spirit is only an impersonal "active force of Almighty God which moves His servants to do His will" (Reasoning From the Scriptures, pp. 406-407; The Watchtower, 6/1/54, p. 24). They have written, "But the holy spirit has no personal name. The reason for this is that the holy spirit is not an intelligent person. It is the impersonal, invisible active force that finds its source and reservoir in Jehovah God and that he uses to accomplish his will even at great distances, over light years of space" (Let Your Name Be Sanctified, p. 269).

Response...True again! I think we have reviewed the idea that the trinity being a physical grouping of three entities as one person is not a biblical teaching, so to address the personification of the Holy Spirit I have once again shortcuted and copied from the first volume of "insight on the scriptures" volume 1
under the heading "spirit".....
"Personification does not prove personality. It is true that Jesus spoke of the holy spirit as a “helper” and spoke of such helper as ‘teaching,’ ‘bearing witness,’ ‘giving evidence,’ ‘guiding,’ ‘speaking,’ ,‘hearing,’ and ‘receiving.’ In so doing, the original Greek shows Jesus at times applying the personal pronoun “he” to that “helper” (paraclete). (Compare Joh 14:16, 17, 26; 15:26; 16:7-15.) However, it is not unusual in the Scriptures for something that is not actually a person to be personalized or personified. Wisdom is personified in the book of Proverbs (1:20-33; 8:1-36); and feminine pronominal forms are used of it in the original Hebrew, as also in many English translations. (KJ, RS, JP, AT) Wisdom is also personified at Matthew 11:19 and Luke 7:35, where it is depicted as having both “works” and “children.” The apostle Paul personalized sin and death and also undeserved kindness as “kings.” (Ro 5:14, 17, 21; 6:12) He speaks of sin as “receiving an inducement,” ‘working out covetousness,’ ‘seducing,’ and ‘killing.’ (Ro 7:8-11) Yet it is obvious that Paul did not mean that sin was actually a person.
So, likewise with John’s account of Jesus’ words regarding the holy spirit, his remarks must be taken in context. Jesus personalized the holy spirit when speaking of that spirit as a “helper” (which in Greek is the masculine substantive pa·ra′kle·tos). Properly, therefore, John presents Jesus’ words as referring to that “helper” aspect of the spirit with masculine personal pronouns. On the other hand, in the same context, when the Greek pneu′ma is used, John employs a neuter pronoun to refer to the holy spirit, pneu′ma itself being neuter. Hence, we have in John’s use of the masculine personal pronoun in association with pa·ra′kle·tos an example of conformity to grammatical rules, not an expression of doctrine.—Joh 14:16, 17; 16:7, 8........

posted on May, 20 2009 @ 12:01 AM
reply to claim #7 continued...
"Other evidence of its impersonal nature. Further evidence against the idea of personality as regards the holy spirit is the way it is used in association with other impersonal things, such as water and fire (Mt 3:11; Mr 1:8); and Christians are spoken of as being baptized “in holy spirit.” (Ac 1:5; 11:16) Persons are urged to become “filled with spirit” instead of with wine. (Eph 5:18) So, too, persons are spoken of as being ‘filled’ with it along with such qualities as wisdom and faith (Ac 6:3, 5; 11:24) or joy (Ac 13:52); and holy spirit is inserted, or sandwiched in, with a number of such qualities at 2 Corinthians 6:6. It is most unlikely that such expressions would be made if the holy spirit were a divine person. As to the spirit’s ‘bearing witness’ (Ac 5:32; 20:23), it may be noted that the same thing is said of the water and the blood at 1 John 5:6-8. While some texts refer to the spirit as ‘witnessing,’ ‘speaking,’ or ‘saying’ things, other texts make clear that it spoke through persons, having no personal voice of its own. (Compare Heb 3:7; 10:15-17; Ps 95:7; Jer 31:33, 34; Ac 19:2-6; 21:4; 28:25.) It may thus be compared to radio waves that can transmit a message from a person speaking into a microphone and cause his voice to be heard by persons a distance away, in effect, ‘speaking’ the message by a radio loudspeaker. God, by his spirit, transmits his messages and communicates his will to the minds and hearts of his servants on earth, who, in turn, may convey that message to yet others."

posted on May, 20 2009 @ 12:02 AM
8. Sin. JWs believe that the first man, Adam, disobeyed Jehovah when tempted by the angel Lucifer, who was jealous of man. As a result of disobedience, Adam and all his descendants lost the right to life and so became liable to death. This liability is applied to temporal death only.

Response...I am sorry, I am just not familiar with this term "temporal death", I have done bible search's in various versions/translations and do not find this term nor do I understand its origin...While searchin the internet I found the term on a LDS site, but there were no Bible scriptures being cited, just book of mormon I believe..I did find in the KJV 2 Corinthians 4:18 "While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal." I take that scripture to mean our (followers of Christ) concern is not of the physical but of the spiritual...but I see no aplication of this scripture in the context of the rgument.
As to this argument...
Romans 5:12 (New International Version) "12Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—"
Romans 6:23 23 KLV "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
What was the purpose of Jesus death, was it not as a sacrifice for all of us?

posted on May, 20 2009 @ 12:06 AM
9. Salvation . JWs claim everlasting life is a reward for doing the will of God and carrying out one's dedication -- in other words, salvation is a reward for good works. (JWs are expected to spend five hours per week in door-to-door visitation and witnessing, are responsible for selling twelve subscriptions to The Watchtower magazine each month, and are responsible for conducting a "Bible study" each month in the homes of their converts.) According to JW theology, a person has one of three possible destinies. The Anointed (144,000) will be in heaven to reign with Jehovah God. The rest of the faithful Jehovah's Witnesses (not of the 144,000) will live forever on a paradise Earth. Both of these classifications are determined to a great extent on membership in the Watchtower organization as well as going door-to-door spreading the message of the Watchtower. Those people who are not members of the Watchtower organization will be destroyed by Jehovah God and cease to exist. There is no concept of eternal punishment or hell in Watchtower theology (Let God Be True, pp. 90-95, 289). They also believe that men will have a second chance, after death, to be saved.

Response... not accurate. Everlasting life is a reward, but it is also what God originally intended for us. Consider Rom 5:27-29 a resurection of all, some to life others to judgement. Jehovah's Witnesses teach there will be a resurection of almost all those who have died, including the ones destroyed in the battle of Jehovah's day. Witnesses also believe that in line with the thoughts at Romans 6:7 7 YLT "for he who hath died hath been set free from the sin." those resurected will not be judged on their previous life, but on the works they produce after having the opportunity to see the real truth under Gods arrangement. Unless of course an individual has unrepentently sinned against the Holy Spirit...Heb 10:26 Mark 3:29.
There are no expectations to hourly requirements for those that attend meetings at a Kindom Hall, nor are there any requirements to "sell" subscriptions of any form, however almost true, a Witness family is expected to set aside time each week for family study of the scriptures. No requirements on conducting studies with interested ones though.
The 144,000; ya know what, look elsewhere on this site for that argument, as it is proliferous... short answer, Jehovah's Witnesses recognize that number as literal, and is also mentioned in the scriptures as "the little flock" these will in fact be placed on thrones in heaven and have the prospect of being rulers and judges, over the "great crowd" who get to see the fulfilment of God's purpose here on Earth.
These priviliges and gifts are from Jehovah, not the "Watchtower organization" to bestow upon anyone, nor do they chose who those people will be. Most witnesses look forward to the resurection of almost everyone who has lived on Earth, and recognize that the Tribulation will decrease humanities number drastically, and do not "expect" to be granted "salvation", they hope for it though, and if they don't survive, then they look forward to the same resurection hope all others can lay claim to.
Hell; this subject I have also seen debated greatly here at this site. So in short terms, it is considered in a literal sense as two states, the grave awaiting resurection or the grave/destruction with no possibility of resurection. look up Eccl 9:5, Ps 146:4 John 11:11-14
Throughout this response the teaching of judgement after resurection AKA a second chance is
addressed, and IMO should be considered an accepted teaching of the scriptures.

posted on May, 20 2009 @ 12:08 AM
10. The Body of Christ. JWs believe that the members of the spiritual Body of Christ, or "Christian Congregation," number only 144,000 (Rev. 7:4-8). Most of those members of Christ's Body are now deceased and are reigning with Jesus in heaven since 1918. (Anybody born after 1936 cannot be in that number.) The remaining members still on earth, approximately 8,000 (out of whom are selected the "Governing Body"), are known as the "Remnant." They are collectively known as Jehovah God's "channel of communication" to men. They are the only ones "born again" and are the only ones who have a hope of going to Heaven. The rest of Jehovah's faithful witnesses only hope to be worthy enough to inherit the Earth, and will never see "Jesus/Michael," nor will they ever go to Heaven. All "so called Christendom" will be destroyed at Armageddon.

Response...Almost true, but not really. " Anybody born after 1936 cannot be in that number" that is not a belief I am familiar with, as far as the number of the remaining 144,000 on Earth, this is just a relaying of those who "claim" to be annointed, I don't think any witness would say only a member of the congregation can be annointed or born again, that is betwene Jehovah and those he has chosen. Those of us that look forward to the Earthly hope certainly look forward to seeing the effects of Jesus rule here on Earth, but recognize this authority will take place from Heavenly Jerusalem, where we will not be, so, unless we each get a special visit from Jesus, and with eternity in mind that shouldn't be a
rejected thought, however I am not aware of a scriptural basis for it.

posted on May, 20 2009 @ 12:12 AM
11. Soul Sleep. JWs deny the immortality of the soul. They do not believe the soul can exist apart from the body, but that a corpse remains in an unconscious state in the grave waiting for the resurrection. [HJB]

Response...TRUE! Here is a quote from another bible study aid provided by the WTBTS the Live Forever book, pp. 77-79 under the heading What Happens at Death?
6 Some persons have said that what makes man different from the animals is that man has a soul but the animals do not. However, Genesis 1:20 and 30 says that God created “living souls” to live in the waters, and that the animals have “life as a soul.” In these verses some Bibles use the words “creature” and “life” instead of “soul,” but their marginal readings agree that the word “soul” is what appears in the original language. Among the Bible references to animals as souls is Numbers 31:28. There it speaks of “one soul out of five hundred, of humankind and of the herd and of the asses and of the flock.”
7 Since animals are souls, when they die their souls die. As the Bible says: “Every living soul died, yes, the things in the sea.” (Revelation 16:3) What about human souls? As we learned in the previous chapter, God did not create man with a soul. Man is a soul. So, as we would expect, when man dies, his soul dies. Over and over again the Bible says that this is true. Never does the Bible say the soul is deathless or that it cannot die. “All those going down to the dust will bend down, and no one will ever
preserve his own soul alive,” Psalm 22:29 says. “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die,” explains Ezekiel 18:4 and 20. And if you turn to Joshua 10:28-39, you will find seven places where the soul is spoken of as being killed or destroyed. 8 In a prophecy about Jesus Christ, the Bible says: “He poured out his soul to the very death . . . and he himself carried the very sin of many people.” (Isaiah 53:12) The teaching of the ransom proves it was a soul (Adam) that sinned, and that in order to ransom humans there had to be a corresponding soul (a man) sacrificed. Christ, by ‘pouring out his soul unto death,’ provided the ransom price. Jesus, the human soul, died. 9 As we have seen, the “spirit” is something different from our soul. The spirit is our life-force. This life-force is in each of the body cells of both humans and animals. It is sustained, or kept alive, by
breathing. What does it mean, then, when the Bible says that at death “the dust returns to the earth . . .
and the spirit itself returns to the true God who gave it”? (Ecclesiastes 12:7) At death the life-force in time leaves all the body cells and the body begins to decay. But this does not mean that our life-force literally leaves the earth and travels through space to God. Rather, the spirit returns to God in the sense that now our hope for future life rests entirely with God. Only by his power can the spirit, or life-force, be given back so that we live again.—Psalm 104:29, 30."

posted on May, 20 2009 @ 12:15 AM
12. Annihilation of the Wicked. JWs teach that the "second death" is annihilation and extinction -- the wicked will cease to exist and will not suffer everlasting torment. They claim that a "doctrine of a burning hell" is "wholly unscriptural," "unreasonable," "contrary to God's love," and "repugnant to justice." [HJB] They claim that "hell" is the grave.

Response...this was breifly touched on before, basically True.
Here is an explanation of the "second death" from the publication Insight on the scriptures
"Second Death. “The lake of fire” into which death, Hades, the symbolic “wild beast” and “the false prophet,” Satan, his demons, and the persistent practicers of wickedness on earth are cast is shown to mean “the second death.” (Re 20:10, 14, 15; 21:8; Mt 25:41) Initially death resulted from and was passed on to mankind as a result of Adam’s transgression; hence “the second death” must be distinct from this inherited death. It is evident from the cited texts that there is no release possible from “the second death.” The situation of those in “the second death” corresponds to the outcome warned of in such texts as Hebrews 6:4-8; 10:26, 27; and Matthew 12:32. On the other hand, those represented as gaining “the crown of life” and having part in “the first resurrection” are free from any possibility of harm by the second death. (Re 2:10, 11) These, who are to reign with Christ, receive immortality (deathlessness) and incorruption and hence are beyond the “authority” of the second death.—1Co 15:50-54; Re 20:6; compare Joh 8:51."
Then from the same book under the heading "Hell""A word used in the King James Version (as well as in the Catholic Douay Version and most older translations) to translate the Hebrew she’ohl′ and the Greek hai′des. In the King James Version the word “hell” is rendered from she’ohl′ 31 times and from hai′des 10 times. This version is not consistent, however, since she’ohl′ is also translated 31 times “grave” and 3 times “pit.” In the Douay Version she’ohl′ is rendered “hell” 64 times, “pit” once, and “death” once. In 1885, with the publication of the complete English Revised Version, the original word she’ohl′ was in many places transliterated into the English text of the Hebrew Scriptures, though, in most occurrences,
“grave” and “pit” were used, and “hell” is found some 14 times. This was a point on which the American committee disagreed with the British revisers, and so, when producing the American Standard Version (1901) they transliterated she’ohl′ in all 65 of its appearances. Both versions transliterated hai′des in the Christian Greek Scriptures in all ten of its occurrences, though the Greek word Ge′en·na (English, “Gehenna”) is rendered “hell” throughout, as is true of many other modern translations.
Concerning this use of “hell” to translate these original words from the Hebrew and Greek, Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (1981, Vol. 2, p. 187) says: “HADES . . . It
corresponds to ‘Sheol’ in the O.T. [Old Testament]. In the A.V. of the O.T. [Old Testament] and N.T.
[New Testament], it has been unhappily rendered ‘Hell.’”

posted on May, 20 2009 @ 12:18 AM
"Collier’s Encyclopedia (1986, Vol. 12, p. 28) says concerning “Hell”: “First it stands for the Hebrew Sheol of the Old Testament and the Greek Hades of the Septuagint and New Testament. Since Sheol in Old Testament times referred simply to the abode of the dead and suggested no moral distinctions, the word ‘hell,’ as understood today, is not a happy translation.”It is, in fact, because of the way that the word “hell” is understood today that it is such an unsatisfactory translation of these original Bible words. Webster’s Third New International Dictionary, unabridged, under “Hell” says: “fr[om] . . . helan to conceal.” The word “hell” thus originally conveyed no thought of heat or torment but simply of a ‘covered over or concealed place.’ In the old English dialect the expression “helling potatoes” meant, not to roast them, but simply to place the potatoes in the ground or in a cellar.
The meaning given today to the word “hell” is that portrayed in Dante’s Divine Comedy and Milton’s Paradise Lost, which meaning is completely foreign to the original definition of the word. The idea of a “hell” of fiery torment, however, dates back long before Dante or Milton. The Grolier Universal
Encyclopedia (1971, Vol. 9, p. 205) under “Hell” says: “Hindus and Buddhists regard hell as a place of spiritual cleansing and final restoration. Islamic tradition considers it as a place of everlasting punishment.” The idea of suffering after death is found among the pagan religious teachings of ancient peoples in Babylon and Egypt. Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs depicted the “nether world . . . as a place full of horrors, . . . presided over by gods and demons of great strength and fierceness.” Although
ancient Egyptian religious texts do not teach that the burning of any individual victim would go on forever, they do portray the “Other World” as featuring “pits of fire” for “the damned.”—The Religion of
Babylonia and Assyria, by Morris Jastrow, Jr., 1898, p. 581; The Book of the Dead, with introduction by E. Wallis Budge, 1960, pp. 135, 144, 149, 151, 153, 161, 200. “Hellfire” has been a basic teaching in Christendom for many centuries. It is understandable why The Encyclopedia Americana (1956, Vol. XIV, p. 81) said: “Much confusion and misunderstanding has been caused through the early translators of the Bible persistently rendering the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades and Gehenna by the word hell. The simple transliteration of these words by the translators of the revised editions of the Bible has not sufficed to appreciably clear up this confusion and misconception.” Nevertheless, such transliteration and consistent rendering does enable the Bible student to make an accurate comparison of the texts in which these original words appear and, with
open mind, thereby to arrive at a correct understanding of their true significance.—See GEHENNA;


posted on May, 20 2009 @ 12:21 AM
13. Prophecy . The Bible lists six identifying marks of false prophets, any one of which is sufficient for identification: (1) through signs and wonders they lead astray after false gods (Dt. 13:1-4); (2) their prophecies don't come to pass (Dt. 18:20-22); (3) they contradict God's Word (Isa. 8:20); (4) they bear bad fruit (Mt. 7:18-20); (5) men speak well of them (Lk. 6:26); and (6) they deny that Jesus, the one and only Christ, has come once and for all in the flesh (1 Jn. 4:3), thereby denying His sufficiency in all matters of life and godliness (2 Pe. 1:3). Most cults are founded upon false prophecies, which, if pointed out, offer an effective way to open blind eyes and rescue cultists. Russell's false prophecies formed the basis for what became The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society and the Jehovah's Witnesses. Russell declared that the Second Coming had taken place invisibly in October 1874, and the Lord was truly present, and that in 1914 the faithful (the 144,000) would be translated to heaven and the wicked
destroyed. Armageddon (which began in 1874) would culminate in 1914 with the complete overthrow of earth's rulers and the end of the world. C.T. Russell, still on earth, died in 1916.

1. what signs and wonders are Jehovah's Witnesses proffessing to accomplish? NONE
2. Witnesses do not make prophecies, they study and attempt to discern the meaning of prophecies
already provided in the bible, anxiously awaiting their fulfilment
3. Witnesses strive to adhere closely to the most accurate rendering of God's word as possible thankfully through archealogy early transcripts of the new testament writing have been found in places
like the Dead Sea that current translations can be tested as to the intent of the message being conveyed
4.What bad fruit? Possibly we could look at how as imperfect humans, everyone falls short in some way, but I would think that generally speaking as a whole the congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses produce fine fruit
5. Really? That's so nice, usually though its "them dang door knockers, who told them to do that anyways"..oh, wait, it was Jesus!
6. Deny Jesus, really? After the pages I have written here sourcing only the Bible and publications produced by the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society, I would think anyone reading this would be hard pressed to acuse any Witness of denying the sacrifice Jesus made for them personally and recognize that Witnesses rejoice at the opportunity to take advantage of the provision his Father put forth that would enable us to become free from sin and live perfectly in a paradise Earth, as is promissed in God's Word.
I, not being a legal representative of the WTBTS but only a bible student, will happily admit that no one is perfect, least of all Russel, who was very concerned with numbers, however 1914 was a pivotal year,
not only on Earth but also in Heaven.

posted on May, 20 2009 @ 12:25 AM
Finally the last points to be refuted which really is a continuation of point #13
In the early 1920s, JWs zealously distributed on the streets and from door to door a book titled Millions Now Living Will Never Die. It was prophesied, "The year 1925 is a date definitely and clearly marked in
the Scriptures, even more clearly than that of 1914 ... we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old ... to the condition of human perfection" ("Millions Now Living Will Never Die," The Watchtower, 7/15/24, p. 89). The JWs even built a house in San Diego where the patriarchs were to live and tried to deed it to King David. (The house was quietly sold in 1954.) In the early 1940s, JWs were declaring that Armageddon, only months away, would end World War II and the defeat of the Nazis would usher in God's rule on earth (The Watchtower, 12/41). Their book, Children, suggested that plans to marry and have children be postponed until after Armageddon. It's been a long wait! Not giving up, they later prophesied that God's millennial kingdom would commence in 1975. Again JWs were told not to engage in any plans for this world, including marriage and having children. Many quit their jobs, sold their homes, and dedicated
themselves to going door to door. (Source: 3/97, The Berean Call.) All in all, the Watchtower has predicted the end of the world for 1914, 1918, 1925, 1975, and 1989.

Hmmmm. I think I would like a whole new thread about the importance of 1914. However, imagine this ""Millions Now Living Will Never Die," The Watchtower, 7/15/24 well, there are still millions living from 1924, so until there aren't dont discount it, however, the society was very young then, and still seeking accurate knowledge, as they continue to do today. The book Children? Don't know it, I did find an article in a 1974 Awake 11/8 p. 11 Is This the Time to Have Children? Here is the only bit about the time of the end, words like iminent and dates though....
"Today there is a great crowd of people who are confident that a destruction of even greater magnitude is now imminent. The evidence is that Jesus’ prophecy will shortly have a major fulfillment, upon this entire system of things. This has been a major factor in influencing many ouples to decide not to have children at this time. They have chosen to remain childless so that they would be less encumbered to carry out the instructions of Jesus Christ to preach the good news of God’s kingdom earth wide before the end of this system comes.—Matt. 24:14."
I haven't found any literature that supports the claim Witnesses placed 1975 or 1989 as dates that mark the begining of the Great Tribulation. And just so you know I haven't heard any placing 2012 as that date either....but, they most certainly do encourage everyone to draw close to Jehovah in expectaion of His great day!!

posted on May, 20 2009 @ 12:26 AM
Thread title said you were debunking false claims yet most of your responses so far have you agreeing that they are true.

And are you copying/pasting or typing from some sort of pamphlet?

posted on May, 20 2009 @ 12:33 AM
reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

Alot of my posts are quotes, and I am pretty sure I was careful to souce them and use proper punctuation....
I took the whole list, didn't cherry pick, and addressed each claim as best I could. some claims are true some are not, when the claim is true I tried to show why the witnesses would believe in such a manner, and when a claim was false or a missrepresentation I did my best to support why the Witnesses would have such beliefs, using the bible as the main resource in this exercise, notice I made the effort to not rely on one particular translation as well.

[edit on 20-5-2009 by Xcouncil=wisdom]

new topics

top topics

<<   2  3  4 >>

log in