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'Crusader' Talk on 2003 Iraq Reports

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posted on May, 19 2009 @ 10:33 PM
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'Crusader' Talk on 2003 Iraq Reports


www.military.com

WASHINGTON -- The Pentagon said Monday it no longer includes a Bible quote on the cover page of daily intelligence briefings it sends to the White House as was practice during the Bush administration.

Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman said he did not know how long the Worldwide Intelligence Update cover sheets quoted from the Bible. Air Force Maj. Gen. Glen Shaffer, who was responsible for including them, retired in August 2003, according to his biography.

For a period in 2003, at least, the daily reports prepared for President George W. Bush carried quotes from the books of Psalms and
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on May, 19 2009 @ 10:33 PM
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I have for a while now thought that by and large the base core support for the ongoing War in Iraq and War in Afghanistan stems from the religiously inclined.

Many deny it and say no, but when you press them about circumstances of 9-11 not really all adding up and the high civilian casualty tolls in Iraq and Afghanistan the majority of those who support the war(s) will say…well Muslims do this, and Muslims do that.

Clearly there is a religious connotation to this war no matter how convenient or inconvenient it becomes for many Americans to deny it.

Here is one man who would not so easily be able to deny, former President George W. Bush who urged Congress and the American people to commit to both the wars.

Is it just me that thinks it’s a little odd and untoward the President of the United States and Commander in Chief of its Armed Services is getting Bible quotes in his daily printed briefing report on the Wars?


www.military.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on May, 19 2009 @ 10:43 PM
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The Bible quotes apparently aimed to support Bush at a time when Soldiers' deaths in Iraq were on the rise, according to the June issue of GQ magazine. But they offended at least one Muslim analyst at the Pentagon and worried other employees that the passages were inappropriate

Military.com

I find it very puzzling that the Bible would be used as a source of solace and resolve for a person ‘troubled’ by the horrendous deaths of our brave Soldiers, and presumably one would hope for the innocent Iraqi men, women and children caught in the crossfire.

Where ever the line truly exists between Separation of Church and State I truly can not see it.



posted on May, 20 2009 @ 01:17 PM
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The Rev. Barry W. Lynn, executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, on Monday said U.S. Soldiers "are not Christian crusaders, and they ought not be depicted as such."


It is not just the non-Religious and non-Christian crowds voicing these concerns. Members of the Clergy are also alarmed.

Seperation of Church and State is a critical factor in letting open and fair minded reasoning govern the Nation and it's people.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 01:08 PM
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The story might lack the appeal or the urgency of Israel wants to attack Iran, Iran wants to attack Israel yet in so many ways it is the religious ellement of our society that puts us into the thick of those kinds of arguments.

While American fights a War on Terror and a War on Drugs I can't help but wonder if our greatest dangers and threats are right here in the U.S. in how we look at things and do them?



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 01:14 PM
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It is not just the non-Religious and non-Christian crowds voicing these concerns. Members of the Clergy are also alarmed.

Seperation of Church and State is a critical factor in letting open and fair minded reasoning govern the Nation and it's people.



I honestly think this is one of the big reasons McCain lost. Palin was the religous right's wet dream (in more than one way). The rest of the country was growing tired of all the Jesus talk in the White House (or Naval Observatory). And before someone jumps my butt let me say that I consider myself a Christian.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Clearly there is a religious connotation to this war no matter how convenient or inconvenient it becomes for many Americans to deny it.


I recently wrote an academic paper (2008) on the religious aspects of al-Qaeda and the War on Terrorism. The religious underpinnings of the use of "Crusades" and "Jihad" are long and historical. The paper was entitled (see link to a screenshot of the title below):

i39.tinypic.com...

That said, the use of religious typology or allegory is common in Arab-Muslim history, as well as in Western (to include the US) history. They fall under such things as clash theory (i.e.: Samuel Huntington 'clash of civilizations', etc.) and crusader myth(s). As I cited in my paper, as per Bin Laden: "This is a matter of religion and creed, it is not what Bush and Blair maintain, that it is a war against terrorism. There is no way to forget the hostility between us and the infidels (Osama bin Laden in Hoffman, 93)."

I further espoused that "The religious underpinnings of the ‘Crusades and Jihad’ (Riley-Smith, 2004) cannot be dismissed nor ignored for it certainly is not lost by Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda, along with other Islamic fundamentalist who make up the global Salafi-Jihadist movement. Nor can it be dismissed and ignored that they “view history as a cosmic struggle between good and evil” (Zeidan, 2)."



[edit on 21-5-2009 by Seekerof]



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 01:41 PM
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Originally posted by observer

It is not just the non-Religious and non-Christian crowds voicing these concerns. Members of the Clergy are also alarmed.

Seperation of Church and State is a critical factor in letting open and fair minded reasoning govern the Nation and it's people.



I honestly think this is one of the big reasons McCain lost. Palin was the religous right's wet dream (in more than one way). The rest of the country was growing tired of all the Jesus talk in the White House (or Naval Observatory). And before someone jumps my butt let me say that I consider myself a Christian.



James Madison, who is considered the "Father of the Constitution," asserted in 1785 that the fruits of governmental establishments of religion have been "[m]ore or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, [and] in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." He also said, "Religion is not helped by establishment, but is hurt by it."



Additionally, the history of government's mismanagement of religion might be why Christ also said, "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's" (Mark 12:17). Many Christians interpret this teaching as supporting church-state separation.




Likewise, in the 1962 case of Engel v. Vitale, Justice Hugo Black wrote on behalf of the U.S. Supreme Court that "a union of government and religion tends to destroy government and to degrade religion."



A similar - but more cynical - view was expressed by George Carlin: "I'm completely in favor of the separation of church and state. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both together is certain death."


Source for all Quotations and external text comments

humanismbyjoe.com

I think there are just as many reasons for Christian to not want their religion to be used as a tool of government as for non-Christians to not want to see it be used as a tool of government.

When government and religion merge, both tend to pressure the other to deviating from each other's doctrines and principals often and then more and more often for the sake of the power it creates in each institution.

Religion is based most often on faith.

Good government most often and hopefully based on common sense.

I do think a lot of people saw in Palin someone devoid of a lot of common sense. She seems like a nice enough person to me, but she sure did try to cater in specific to the ultra right of the Republican Party.

I think you are right friend.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 01:58 PM
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In the days surrounding the U.S. invasion of Iraq, cover sheets-like the ones in this exclusive GQ.com slideshow-began adorning top-secret intelligence briefings produced by Donald Runsfeld's Pentagon. The sheets juxtaposed war images with inspirational Bible quotes and were delivered by Runsfeld himself to the White House, where they were read by the man who, just after Septmeber 11, referred to America's war on terrpr as a "crusade."

Source: men.style.com...



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 02:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by Seekerof

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler
Clearly there is a religious connotation to this war no matter how convenient or inconvenient it becomes for many Americans to deny it.


I recently wrote an academic paper (2008) on the religious aspects of al-Qaeda and the War on Terrorism. The religious underpinnings of the use of "Crusades" and "Jihad" are long and historical. The paper was entitled (see link to a screenshot of the title below):

i39.tinypic.com...

That said, the use of religious typology or allegory is common in Arab-Muslim history, as well as in Western (to include the US) history. They fall under such things as clash theory (i.e.: Samuel Huntington 'clash of civilizations', etc.) and crusader myth(s). As I cited in my paper, as per Bin Laden: "This is a matter of religion and creed, it is not what Bush and Blair maintain, that it is a war against terrorism. There is no way to forget the hostility between us and the infidels (Osama bin Laden in Hoffman, 93)."

I further espoused that "The religious underpinnings of the ‘Crusades and Jihad’ (Riley-Smith, 2004) cannot be dismissed nor ignored for it certainly is not lost by Osama bin Laden and al Qaeda, along with other Islamic fundamentalist who make up the global Salafi-Jihadist movement. Nor can it be dismissed and ignored that they “view history as a cosmic struggle between good and evil” (Zeidan, 2)."



[edit on 21-5-2009 by Seekerof]


Thank you for the links, I will look forward to reading those. It sounds like you have put some impressive thought and time into studying it and analyzing it.

I personally take more of Caesar’s approach, I don’t much concern myself with what people spiritually believe or follow, just as long as they don’t mess up the parade or a good game!

Yet religion is a powerful motivating factor often for some of the most downtrodden and disfranchised in societies across the world. Many Muslim nations though technically prosperous economically on paper because of natural resources wealth have large and often majority portions of their populations living in almost abject poverty with little chance of opportunity to advance beyond it.

Spirituality takes on a whole new connotation for those who view it as an important stepping stone to a better life beyond this one, when they have already accepted this life is more or less a lost cause when it comes to the notion of peace, prosperity, love and happiness.

That political leaders would look to exploit that within the Islamic world is more or less what any good strategist would do. Yet is it truly in that political movement’s best interest and the people in general who ascribe to it?

With 1.4 billion Muslims on the planet Al-Qaeda is clearly not having a field day when it comes to raising an army to conquer the world or even do a good job at terrorizing it. Most Muslims like most human beings, truly would prefer to lead a peaceful existence and concentrate as best they can on their own well being, happiness and sustenance.

I believe there is a significant but not large number of Islamists who see some romance in that struggle; just like many Christians see some romance in the whole book of Revelation tale.

Yet when you get down to who can field more warriors in these crusades, whose societies give them the most moral and financial and political support, you see clearly a huge Christian/Western edge. I sometimes think Westerners and Christians chalk that up to a finer morality, higher degree of intelligence, even liberalism and plurality not to mention a validation from and of the deity involved in the faith that in some ways emboldens, and incites and commits them to those notions of the best culture will prevail and the true culture will prevail and the right culture will prevail through force of arms. Of course too everyone loves to be on the winning team.

At the end of the day though I don’t see the same ground swell involved in the Muslim world for violent remedies except in small fringe extremist groups and in those nations that then find themselves under bombardment, occupation, attack by sanctions or violent means because even though their governments aren’t involved in the exportation and execution of these fringe ideals, those groups found or called home some portion or parcel within those societies, communities and nations.

I truly feel that the pre-Jimmy Carter CIA did a much better job at clamping down on rooting and ferreting out extremist elements and dealing with them effectively than the Military does. Ultimately most of these extremist movements are matters where local authorities should be stamping them out, but often don’t because the corruption in the regimes that typically rule such nations would prefer it’s fringe elements find an enemy in someone else other than the state while they languish in poverty and despair.

Amazingly Jimmy Carter a devout Christian saw a disturbing lack of morality in State sanctioned executions of foreign nationals and outlawed the practice of assassinating would be enemies of the United States before they could become effective to that end.

Now though it seems Christian morality is being used to validate the wholesale slaughter of women and children and men not a party to these radical philosophies or acts in a more esoteric and sterile bombard by weapons from the air that often end up hitting everyone and everything but the party or thing that could have represented a risk to the safety and security of this nation.

Simply put our strategy is probable creating a lot more zealots than it is eliminating them!

That’s my humble opinion friend.



posted on May, 21 2009 @ 05:20 PM
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Originally posted by ModernAcademia

In the days surrounding the U.S. invasion of Iraq, cover sheets-like the ones in this exclusive GQ.com slideshow-began adorning top-secret intelligence briefings produced by Donald Runsfeld's Pentagon. The sheets juxtaposed war images with inspirational Bible quotes and were delivered by Runsfeld himself to the White House, where they were read by the man who, just after Septmeber 11, referred to America's war on terrpr as a "crusade."

Source: men.style.com...


It's truly amazing how we manage to always convince ourselves that people who say what they mean, didn't really mean what they said isn't it?



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