no , they needed founderies ? where they had moulds in which they poured the metal in ,..

and in consequesnce i asume that founderies still work after shtf ?

there is only X ammount of projectiles, youd still need the tools to make the weapons you use ,

first two weeks is still a long time without stock not to mention hunting and what not.

A good riot shotgun for home defense, knives, machete, Asp, long range rifle with scope, and some home made explosives and napalm. Better stock up on the bullets and supplies!

List of weapons you should have laying around.

-Good rifle with a scope.
-10/22
-9mm handgun
-12 gauge
-Compound bow
-samauri sword or machete
-1 lb hammer
-couple of good knives

1 weapon? A 12 gauge shotgun, pump action, with a 26 inch barrel with interchangeable choke tubes, a 24 inch rifled slug barrel with rifle sights, and an 18.5 inch cylinder bore riot barrel. With that combination it will deal with any game, large or small, and any human threats with ease. I personally recommend a Mossberg 500 as a matter of economy, but there are a lot of others out there if you want to spend more. Buy a variety of suitable ammo in large quantities.

More than 1 weapon? It depends upon your circumstances, so you're on your own there...for example, in an urban environment a 9mm or 45ACP carbine or handgun would probably be more suitable than an assault rifle-type weapon (AR-15, AK47 copy, etc.). The shotgun is still your best bet, if not the "coolest", regardless of the environment you find yourself in.

Bottom line...learn about it yourself and decide what is best for you rather than asking other people what to buy. You really need to know about weapons and their capabilities...not just asking what to get.

---

---

Weapons?

The first is your prepared brain

After that, a handgun, shotgun and long range rifle with plenty of ammo

Shotgun and or molotav cocktails. If civil unrest or war breaks out you had better hell hope you have more than guns and knives. Some serious explosive power will definitely be needed. In California fire would be a HUGE asset. I mean could you imagine if California was set on fire? The state would burn to the ground it's so dry here.

Concerning spears. A spear is about the worst weapon you can bring into a fight. For starters, it takes a long time to get to know how they work, and to be able to use one effectively. I would not advise anyone to use a spear for anything other than hunting. Sure it has a good reach, which may get you thinking "I can hold some one off with this". That you may.

So long as that person has no understanding of CQC, and is not really serious about killing you. Fighting in close quarters has a lot to do with range, and guard distance. A knife, for example, has got a short range, but most importantly, no guard distance. Meaning you can stab someone who is close enough to be chewing on your nose.

A spear on the other hand, has long range and therefore a very long guard distance. Meaning that once someone gets past your spear tip, he, or she, can gain control of your weapon, render it useless, and mangle you up with ease. Not good. For effective CQC, you need to be somewhere in the middle. Swords are best. You can grab hold of a spear shaft fairly easily, especially if your opponent has no idea how to use it. Try intercepting a blade with your hand and you have already lost the fight. Also, to do damage with a spear, you need to dish out stabbing blows, which are arguably the easiest blows to intercept or parry.

Longswords are fairly slow, cumbersome, can be heavy, and once your opponent gets through that proverbial meter, most hacks lose their stopping power. Sure, you may think that there is no way anything is getting through your guard intact, but s**t happens, and if the fight lasts, you will tire (things are a bit different if you own a shield or armor, but I doubt that is the case. Trekking in chain mail sucks, big time). Remember that in an open space, your opponent can just back away from long sword swings until you are too tired to wield it effectively.

I would go with a short sword anyday. By short I mean that the tip should not stick out in front of your body when your arm is fully extended backwards (as in preparing to deal a stabbing blow). For me the best is somewhere near 45 cm of blade. Shortswords are fast, have decent range, and are versatile enough to best any other weapon out there. Those romans built their 1000 year empire by effective use of the short sword, and lost it when longer ones became all the rage. One last piece of advice. Parrying, like in the movies will eventually break your sword, and IS NOT the way it is intended to be used (except as a last resort). You don't fight with a sword the same way you fight with a rapier, or a fleuret, but the guys in Hollywood don't know this.

Futhermore, I hope that is advice is NEVER usefull to anyone. CQC is a messy buisiness. You will get cut up, and it will be gruesome. So please people, try to avoid it like the black death.



[edit on 17-5-2009 by Ismail]

A weapon for when the poo hits the fan??
I would say an umbrella as poo hitting the fan could be a messy ordeal.

In all seriousness I say a bow and arrow as they are quiet and you can make new arrows if needed.

The best weapons are the ones that you are familiar and comfortable enough with that they are an extension of your body. For example give the choice of a collapsable baton, standard baton or a tonfa, my best bet would be a tonfa even when going against a short sword because I am more familiar with the weapon.

Yes, I can use swords and knives of various sizes and styles effectively, but I am better trained and experienced with blunt weapons in CQC. Especially on how to use less experienced combatants weapons against them. And exploiting the limitations of the human body with locks and holds as well as breaking points. Shattering the forearm is no where near as easy nor effective as a wrist or elbow for example.

Sure, we would all give our left eye for a real working lightsaber, but an intelligent and experienced fencer would let you have it in exchange for the rapier or other sword of their choice. Chances are you would cut your own leg off before they were pressed for an opportune thrust. Which are very, very quick and efficient by the way. Even when compared to the standard katana and eastern fighting styles.

Same goes for guns. Every gun has their own little quirks that have to be learned in order to be efficient. Chief among them is to ability to use them against a living target. You can be Annie Oakley against clay pigeons and cardboard targets, but firing on a fellow human being is a different situation.

Back when I practiced with a recurve bow, there was a kitten of the neighbors that would come over and hang out under the target at 20 yards. While both I and the kitten knew things were safe, it always lowered my score due to being aware and extra cautious. However the kitten did know to move behind the shooting line when we moved back to 30 yards.

A good one would be to have an old fashioned muzzle loader, stock up on black powder, fashion a round mold for making your own musket balls.

Ya know, like Mel Gibson does in "The Patriot".

I got a crossbow cuz a Compound bow was kinda hard to use ^_^

Get an iPod Touch too!




I have one just in case TSHTF i need some sort of entertaiment system with a sun charger or whatever u call it

Easy and simple just have a shot gun if you can get one or a 22 for hunting.
if not just have a reliable bow and arrows, a good skinning knife, a secondary knife or machete or hachet for other things, sharpening stone, flint, compass, a bottle for liquid,
best to get a dog if you want one but remember that it is one extra mouth to feed. And simple light camping gear no tent with those crappy collapsible poles.

No need for big spears and extra knifes and stuff keep it simple it will just over burden you.

[edit on 17-5-2009 by okimas]

[edit on 17-5-2009 by okimas]

Not sure if it's been said or not but i used to own a crossbow with a pistol grip that would be awesome to have lying around I had tons of arrows I could reuse over and over when shooting close targets or even far and running past them. No matter the scenario I think one of those would be quite handy and of course some sort of sort plus maybe throwing/pocket knives and a gun would be excellent too maybe some sort of pistol at ankle and waist and while based up or at a safe point having some sort of assault rifles would be handy until of course you had to run.

And don't forget maybe small explosives in some sort of backpack.

I don't know in the scenario I picture having a couple people with me so all these things would be scatter throughout the group in backpacks and such.

I could have so much fun picturing what I would want and how I would use it and playing out the whole scenario in my head.

Originally posted by Ismail
Concerning spears. A spear is about the worst weapon you can bring into a fight. For starters, it takes a long time to get to know how they work, and to be able to use one effectively. I would not advise anyone to use a spear for anything other than hunting. Sure it has a good reach, which may get you thinking "I can hold some one off with this". That you may.

So long as that person has no understanding of CQC, and is not really serious about killing you. Fighting in close quarters has a lot to do with range, and guard distance. A knife, for example, has got a short range, but most importantly, no guard distance. Meaning you can stab someone who is close enough to be chewing on your nose.

A spear on the other hand, has long range and therefore a very long guard distance. Meaning that once someone gets past your spear tip, he, or she, can gain control of your weapon, render it useless, and mangle you up with ease. Not good. For effective CQC, you need to be somewhere in the middle. Swords are best. You can grab hold of a spear shaft fairly easily, especially if your opponent has no idea how to use it. Try intercepting a blade with your hand and you have already lost the fight. Also, to do damage with a spear, you need to dish out stabbing blows, which are arguably the easiest blows to intercept or parry.

I agree with that assessment if we are assuming that the wielder is going to use the only the pointy end of the spear to poke at his opponent. That's no way to use a spear in CQC, since a spear has far more useful parts that the pointy end. Furthermore, concentrating on the pointy end ignores the edge of the blade entirely. Maybe the spears you deal with have teeny tiny points. Those are meant only for throwing, not CQC. Throwing a spear, or a knife for that matter, is not something I recommend. Should anything not go strictly according to plan, you have just disarmed yourself and armed your opponent. Always a bad idea. The 'guard range' issue is dealt with most effectively by choking up on the spear, and employing unexpected parts of it if you let your opponent inside your guard.

As you say, real fighting with primitive weapons is not like you see in the movies. There is a lot more jumping, bashing, dodging, and moving in general, and there is a noticable absence of the flashy moves you see in the movies. Edge to edge parries with a sword, like one sees in the movies, yields nothing more than a really expensive and ineffective saw.
Generally speaking, though, if it takes you longer to win the fight than 30 seconds, you have lost.

Having dealt with both swords and spears, I can tell you that each has it's advantages - and disadvantages. Should you see a man armed with a spear, and all you've got is a sword, I reccomend having him taken out by an archer. It's conceivable that the sword might win, but by no means guaranteed. The cat with the spear might know what he's doing with it.

nenothtu out