Surviving on wild food - Vegetarians!

Just a remark. I think the only time it is permissable for you to kill another animal, is if it is trying to kill you. So why don't meat-eaters go out and and hunt carnivorous animals? Rather than killing the poor rabbits, sheep and cows, be a brave hunter and go for the lions and tigers, and for the real warriors, do it by your bare hands. It should be a fair fight - the winner gets to eat the loser

Anybody here had lion and tiger meat? What's it like?


I have a queston on grub, worms and insects in general. How do you eat them from the wild? Do you heat them or just injest them raw?

[edit on 10-5-2009 by Indigo_Child]

It all has to do with spirit. If there is no spirit, there would be nothing. It is the spirit that projects this world, it the spirit that causes life to evolve, it is spirit that enlivens them. Again, once spirit is gone, everything from the human to the animal becomes nothing more than an empty shell.

Exactly. Everything is Spirit. Even the ugly, even the hideous, the violent the cruel. If Spirit ceases to exist we would never know because we would cease to exist.

We are not empty shells if that is what you are worried about. It's all one mind. : )

reply to post by Indigo_Child


There are books on eating insects. I have 2 but I had to order them from Barnes and Noble; they weren't carried in their regular stock. Just google "eating bugs" or "bug recipes". You'll get a ton of results. There are a lot of countries and cultures that eat bugs.

I'm not squeamish nor am I a picky eater. I figure if it keeps me alive, it's all good. There are also nut loaves that will keep unrefrigerated for up to 6 months. That and a worm farm and you might could make it through a winter. Let me know if you want the recipe for the nut loaf.

You don't eat hunters like lion or tiger because one they don't taste as good, two they are more dangerous and three they mainly have tough sinewy meat unlike the softer meat of herbivores. As to your earlier point on spirits and such like you are arguing that doing bad things makes a person cruel and heartless. The idea is flawed for two reasons. One that is not always the case for example Hitler and Himmler ordered the carrying out of horrific acts and at the same time they were vegetarians who became squeamish at the thought of an animal being hurt and passed several laws regarding animal protection. Hitler banned the hunting of deers and foxes using hounds and banned boiling lobsters because he didn't like the sound they made. He also was a man that loved and was very caring towards children.
Secondly the idea you are putting forth states that by cruel acts you become a bad person. But surely you would already have to be a cruel person in order to carry out those acts.
So sorry but your explanation didn't get through to me and as you said it would be a waste to try again but please answer my questions.

-Cauch1

reply to post by Indigo_Child


Can you give me a general location as to where you would be doing 'your surviving'.
UK i know
North/South/East/West even if you don't want to narrow down a county would be fine.

I can pass on some basic indigenous food knowledge,I dunno about 'life force' or Chi gained from it though.

reply to post by Cauch1



It does not surprise me that tiger and lion meat tastes bad and is more dense than herbivore meat. It is consistent with what I told you about third grade food sources being more dense and carnivorous creatures being more dead matter. There is a technical Sanskrit word for this kind of dead matter - tamasic- it is food which is putrid, disease-prone and heavy. If all you consume is this, your own personality becomes like it - "You are what you eat"

Regarding Hitler and his vegetarianism. Hitler is singled out all the time, but in actual fact he was supported by others(most were meat eaters ) Hitler did not actually kill anyone, others killed for him. Either way you're constructing a strawman. I never said all meat eaters are evil and all vegetarians are good. I believe what I am saying is that ones food is a factor in ones thoughts and personality. It is not the only factor.

In terms of spiritual development meat-eating is a no no according to the sages. At best it makes it difficult for you to practice spirituality and at worst it retards it.

[edit on 10-5-2009 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by Cauch1
You don't eat hunters like lion or tiger because one they don't taste as good, two they are more dangerous and three they mainly have tough sinewy meat unlike the softer meat of herbivores. As to your earlier point on spirits and such like you are arguing that doing bad things makes a person cruel and heartless. The idea is flawed for two reasons. One that is not always the case for example Hitler and Himmler ordered the carrying out of horrific acts and at the same time they were vegetarians who became squeamish at the thought of an animal being hurt and passed several laws regarding animal protection. Hitler banned the hunting of deers and foxes using hounds and banned boiling lobsters because he didn't like the sound they made. He also was a man that loved and was very caring towards children.
Secondly the idea you are putting forth states that by cruel acts you become a bad person. But surely you would already have to be a cruel person in order to carry out those acts.
So sorry but your explanation didn't get through to me and as you said it would be a waste to try again but please answer my questions.

-Cauch1

Very true Cauch. The Nazi's were a bit clinical when it came to humans, but many were VERY aware regarding animals. Tis true. No judgement made. Just goes to show how different people have different perceptions.

Let me explain it to you Indigo.
The reason why the meat from carnivores is not that good to eat is because it is the meat of survivors. It is tough, sinewy and efficient. The kind of muscle it is hard (if not impossible) to develop with a diet that does not include meat. Although I have said that it is not nice to eat it does not mean that it is not good to eat. Meat from hunters still contains large amounts of nutrients. As to its flavour, I would guess it tastes like chicken. Most things seem to. Supposedly even human does.

-Cauch1

New to ATS and quite intrigued...

I was very drawn to this thread as I too am a vegetarian (11 months so far) and wonder how one such as myself would survive out in the wild with no grocery store available to fall back on or even a garden. I'm very interested in how this topic will develop over time. I'm looking forward to more resources and personal experiences. Yes, I agree there are many things that can be found online but searching through so much can get overwhelming. Any suggestions for a website to start the search? I apologize deeply if this will bring a response that has already been covered.

I do have a question though for those that insist that vegetarians will not be able to survive without eating some kind of flesh whether it be cow, fish or insect (for example). What if there comes a time when we no longer can rely on those things for food due to infections or whatever? Are you saying you truly believe there is no hope or chance for survival? I'm a bit confused on that I guess. That is not intended to start a war, I'm just very curious. I personally like to believe there is always another way...call me ignorant or a delusional dreamer if you must but I tend to believe anything is possible and nothing is written in stone as the only way.

Thanks for reading-TLH

reply to post by AwakenAware


Welcome to ATS. Here's a thread about wild edibles and their nutritional content. Hope that helps.


[edit on 10-5-2009 by whitewave]

reply to post by whitewave


Very nice work Whitewave.
A lot of people are oblivious to just how much food is easily acquired,even without insects and roadkill.

I am a vegetarian. Have been all my life. My parents are vegetarians as well. If it comes to survival mode, we have a self sustaining farm in the highlands which we visit at times. But if something were to destroy that, say a hurricane or tornado or just a bunch of hungry people. It would come to either eat animals or die. And at that point I and my parents would gladly eat animals. Its just that my and my family's life is for me more important than the animals.

reply to post by AGENT_T


Thanks. Having a vegetarian lifestyle would be difficult enough during good times when food is readily available but during survival mode, you'd be doing nothing else but scrounging for the needed calories and nutrients to make it another day.

I guess I'm just too lazy to be a vegetarian. I prefer to thrive rather than just barely subsist with the constant worry of getting my daily bread.

I study edible plants because hunting is not always a successful venture and one can still "get by" for short bursts without the concentrated proteins and fats found in animals. Just don't know how that would work out for the long term.

We need one of the more adventurous vegetarians to try it out and let us know of their experience.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
reply to post by audas

 

There are arguments on both sides. I am not interested in getting debate over vegetarian vs non-vegetarianism. Please respect that.

I will only say this much and I am entitled to state my opinion, so I intend no offense to anyone. While it is true we are omnivorous, foods more conducive to holistic well being are vegetarian food(fruit and veg) There is a science behind this, but it a spiritual science. Each food item we consume has life-force/energy(Prana/Chi/Ki) and it attains this life force directly from the Earth and the Sun. This is why food which is directly nourished by the sun has more vitality. Generally, food falls into three categories of energy:

Inertia inducing
Passion inducing
Calm inducing

The foods which cause heaviness induce inertia such as alcohol, meat, nicotine and other drugs. These are foods low in lifeforce. Meat is low in lifeforce because it comes from a second-grade or third grade source. The human meat-eater at the top of food chain acquires their energy from an animal, which either derives its sustenance from the Earth(second grade) or from other animals which derive their sustenance from the earth(third grade)

That is a great rebuttal for those who attack vegetarians. Plants eaten freshly are actually still alive. Flesh of a dead animal is dead. You are what you eat. I need to eat less meat and more plants.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
reply to post by Cauch1

 

The energy in 1kg of flesh is not the same as the energy in 1kg of fruit and veg. There is more Prana/life force in the latter. While the flesh just contains dead energy. Surely you would accept there is a difference between spiritual energy and material energy?

If you were to ever be dropped on a desert island and planned to survive ,I will quote an old DS.

You better get your ass and head wired right..

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
reply to post by audas

 

.....
Now as a free soul I have the right to choose what I want to be. If I choose the body over the spirit, then yes I can eat meat. However, I have chosen the spirit over the body, so no I will not eat meat. Only in an exreme survival situation will I consider eating some kind of meat of an animal which is least in sentience, such as fish.
....

[edit on 10-5-2009 by Indigo_Child]

Thanks for explaining vegetarianism so clearly.
I want to place spirituality above the body. I'd just like to point that we have a great responsability, that is taking care of our material body, just like a driver must take care of his car.
I'm vegetarian too, although I eat meat when I have no other choices.

A star for this thread.

TheTilde

Originally posted by Malcram

Originally posted by Sonya610

Being a survivalist means things will get rough and you will have to kill things to survive, whether it be animals for protein, or humans that are threatening you...."

What about killing humans for protein, if the scenario was unavoidable for survival? (and please don't just avoid the question by saying the scenario would never arise - it could.) Would you kill and eat humans to survive?

How do you weigh ethics against survival? Is it survival at all costs, or is there a limit? If there is a limit to the ethical compromises you are prepared to make then you can understand when other people are also unwilling to make compromises in their ethics, and accept that where each one draws the line will be different.

If we are purely talking survival, then the "best" survivalist is a psychopath who has no moral qualms about hunting and slaughtering humans or any other protein source to devour. Think Hannibal Lector.

[edit on 10-5-2009 by Malcram]

Then by your definition feel free to call me lector. I'm a survivalist and would most certainly eat another human if it was the last source of food( only because other humans would be a valuable resource and all resources should never be wasted) and even my self if it would buy me more time to live. *Note Ive even discussed with my current girlfriend that if need be i would eat her, she wasn't pleased but said so would she*

That being said i understand that with proper planing and some luck you could and very well could survive on nothing but plants. But don't expect a happy life.

I have a question for you vegi-people out there that was raised to me while traveling in Brazil. A common practice for tribal life that can afford to kill their cattle to drink some blood, often mixed with milk as well. Is that morally wrong for vegetarians to drink their blood, it doesn't truly eat the animal any more then milk. But since i don't know for sure i wanted to ask.

Originally posted by Cauch1
Let me explain it to you Indigo.
The reason why the meat from carnivores is not that good to eat is because it is the meat of survivors. It is tough, sinewy and efficient. The kind of muscle it is hard (if not impossible) to develop with a diet that does not include meat. Although I have said that it is not nice to eat it does not mean that it is not good to eat. Meat from hunters still contains large amounts of nutrients. As to its flavour, I would guess it tastes like chicken. Most things seem to. Supposedly even human does.

-Cauch1

From the testimony of cannibals like Jeffery dalmar its supposed to taste sweet, particular that of the face (little gross here since nothing makes one as visible human as the face)


I would like to point out to people the original point of this thread was HOW a vegetarian COULD survive. Not SHOULD a vegetarian survive.
i do like that the topic evolved but still



[edit on 11-5-2009 by swolleneyeball]

Originally posted by swolleneyeball
*Note Ive even discussed with my current girlfriend that if need be i would eat her, she wasn't pleased but said so would she*

Slightly off topic here:

Man I love the way you used the word 'current'.... Just like if you ever get bored with this one you can eat her and move on! (I hope she don't read this site!)

I would eat a person, I would have to be very hungry... Or said person would have to be very irritating, yes a very irritating person would be much easier to eat.

Originally posted by Now_Then

Originally posted by swolleneyeball
*Note Ive even discussed with my current girlfriend that if need be i would eat her, she wasn't pleased but said so would she*

Slightly off topic here:

Man I love the way you used the word 'current'.... Just like if you ever get bored with this one you can eat her and move on! (I hope she don't read this site!)

I would eat a person, I would have to be very hungry... Or said person would have to be very irritating, yes a very irritating person would be much easier to eat.

No ive had the topic with all ex-girlfriends i just said current to point out this is something i contiune to do. But since i would move on i suppose i would, just to use a bad term, Eat & Run

[edit on 11-5-2009 by swolleneyeball]

Have any of you nuts. roots, sprouts people actually tried a week of camping where the only food you eat is what you've foraged?

I had a brief "forage" phase a while ago and went out with Steve Brill a few times. Some nutrionists and foresters from a university I was affiliated with repeatedly told me foraging as a main source of food was unrealistic and not likely to succeed. I didnt believe them so I went out with Steve Brill a few times. In a days worth of hiking and searching we ended up with a tuber and a handful of sorrel. Not even enough to replace a fraction of what was used up in the activity of searching.

Cultivation is a different story. You could probably do very well with a 20 square foot patch of garden of sorts as long as you practiced good preservation habits but I don't see how foraging in the real world can end in anything other than death.

If anyone has successfully done it I'd like to hear about it. The key is successful. People floating in life rafts have survived 14 days + on bugs, condensation and whacking the occasional seagull but even though they "survived" I'm interested in long-term sustenance while simultaneously expending the energy to build shelter, maintain fire, collect water, etc...