Surviving on wild food - Vegetarians!, page 3

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reply posted on 10-5-2009 @ 10:27 AM by Cauch1

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
So logically there is more energy in a primary source like fruit and veg, than there is in a secondary source or a tertiary source.

AAAGH I swear my brain just ran away as I read this latest insult to logic. Let me put this simply for you MEAT CONTAINS MORE NUTRIENTS THAN FRUIT AND VEG. Can I make it any more simple. Did you ever study biology at school? Energy transfer ring a bell? Basically when you eat meat less energy is passed out as waste than when you eat fruit and veg. Not only that but, for example, 1lb of meat will contain many times more than 1lb of vegetables. Why are you adding people to your ignore list Malcram are they beating you.

Also Indigo it is spelt Cauch1 not Caunch

Also I am a person who believes that this not life is not all there is I am just not trying to hurry my way out of it. As to killing my loved ones first you assume that I have them (LOL joking of course I do

) but really that is different to killing someone you just found wandering out in the wild or someone you don't like. I won't miss them for a start.

And a final note to Malcram you will really struggle to gather enough fruit and veg to get the protein level you need. And even if you do you will be taking in far too much of other types of nutrients. (lets just say it will feel like someone went through your guts with a powerhose.

-Cauch1

reply posted on 10-5-2009 @ 10:29 AM by Sonya610

Originally posted by Malcram
My point was not that one could survive solely on nuts, it was that wild plants can provide carbs and vitamins and minerals etc. and nuts and seeds can provide enough protein and fat.

If it COULD be done then it HAS been done and it is documented somewhere. If you can't find detailed descriptions of indeginous societies living on vegetarian diets (without agriculture) then it probably can't be done.

Especially some of the native american tribes, some were very intune with animals yet were any vegetarian? Ponder that and ask WHY. I am sure some have tried for various reasons in the past, but it didn't catch on (because they all died).

[edit on 10-5-2009 by Sonya610]

reply posted on 10-5-2009 @ 10:32 AM by Indigo_Child

The body really doesn't need too much protein. It needs a whole range of nutrients, which can be supplied comfortably with a vegetarian diet:

High Protein vegetarian food:

1 cup of quinoa: 21g of protein
1 cup of kidney beans: 15g protein
1 cup of lentils: 18g protein
1 cup of tofu: 14g protein
1 cup of soya milk: 6g protein
1 cup of walnuts: 4g of protein
1 slice wholewheat bread: 3g of protein
1 cup of oats: 6g of protein
1 cup of brown rice: 9g of protein

Five magic foods

Quinoa: The only grain that is a carbohydrate and a complete protein.
Lentils, beans and chickpeas: Combined with brown rice, form a complete protein.
Nuts and seeds: Provide protein, fibre, vitamins and minerals.

Source

I don't think meat-eaters should be too concerned for where us vegetarians get our protein from

[edit on 10-5-2009 by Indigo_Child]

reply posted on 10-5-2009 @ 10:40 AM by Sonya610

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
High Protein vegetarian food:

1 cup of quinoa: 21g of protein
1 cup of kidney beans: 15g protein
1 cup of lentils: 18g protein
1 cup of tofu: 14g protein
1 cup of soya milk: 6g protein
1 cup of walnuts: 4g of protein
1 slice wholewheat bread: 3g of protein
1 cup of oats: 6g of protein
1 cup of brown rice: 9g of protein

Cool. So tell the op where they can find tofu and lentils and soy milk and whole wheat bread in the wild. We all know vegetarians can live pretty darn well with a Whole Foods in the neighborhood. The question is, what would you eat in the wild?

[edit on 10-5-2009 by Sonya610]

reply posted on 10-5-2009 @ 10:41 AM by Indigo_Child

reply to post by Cauch1

The energy in 1kg of flesh is not the same as the energy in 1kg of fruit and veg. There is more Prana/life force in the latter. While the flesh just contains dead energy. Surely you would accept there is a difference between spiritual energy and material energy?

I am glad you said you would not kill and eat your loved ones, otherwise I would be worried for you. Well there you go, just as you make the ethical call that you will not kill and eat your loved ones; I make the ethical call that I would not kill and eat a human and most animals. They do not need to be related to me for me to acknowledge the spirit within them. For the spirit that enlivens me, is the same spirit that enlivens them.

reply posted on 10-5-2009 @ 10:43 AM by Cauch1

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
The body really doesn't need too much protein. It needs a whole range of nutrients, which can be supplied comfortably with a vegetarian diet:

High Protein vegetarian food:

1 cup of quinoa: 21g of protein
1 cup of kidney beans: 15g protein
1 cup of lentils: 18g protein
1 cup of tofu: 14g protein
1 cup of soya milk: 6g protein
1 cup of walnuts: 4g of protein
1 slice wholewheat bread: 3g of protein
1 cup of oats: 6g of protein
1 cup of brown rice: 9g of protein

Five magic foods

Quinoa: The only grain that is a carbohydrate and a complete protein.
Lentils, beans and chickpeas: Combined with brown rice, form a complete protein.
Nuts and seeds: Provide protein, fibre, vitamins and minerals.

I don't think meat-eaters should be too concerned for where us vegetarians get our protein from

[edit on 10-5-2009 by Indigo_Child]

ROFL HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Ahem. Yes of course Indigo... Tell you what you go find your kidney beans, tofu, lentils, rice, bread and soya milk. While you spend several months searching in vain for what you will never find in the wild I will be relaxing by my camp fire wearing a new fur coat eating dear and apple. I will have beaten your nutrients in hours instead of months. If you truly think that you can live off those in the wild then it would appear that you are truly deluded and should sectioned. Audas was right you are living in a fantasy world. How do you honestly expect to get soya milk or bread? Do you think you are just going to bump into a paddy field at just the right time if year and in the UK in order for you to collect your rice. Wake up please. With that post you destroyed all of your (rather vague) remaining credibility. Go do some serious thinking about how you expect to collect those foods in the wild. Now I will leave you for a bit.

-Cauch1

HAHAHAHAHAHA LOL I just can't stop

reply posted on 10-5-2009 @ 10:45 AM by Indigo_Child

reply to post by Sonya610

I would hope to eat wild edible plants, nuts, fruits, berries and I would perhaps make a compromise on fish. This is only in survival circumstances. If it was long term I would have to cultivate my own crops.

I was only mentioning those food-sources for the wider discussion that Vegetarian diet does not provide proteins.

[edit on 10-5-2009 by Indigo_Child]

reply posted on 10-5-2009 @ 10:47 AM by Cauch1

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
The energy in 1kg of flesh is not the same as the energy in 1kg of fruit and veg. There is more Prana/life force in the latter. While the flesh just contains dead energy. Surely you would accept there is a difference between spiritual energy and material energy?

I am glad you said you would not kill and eat your loved ones, otherwise I would be worried for you. Well there you go, just as you make the ethical call that you will not kill and eat your loved ones; I make the ethical call that I would not kill and eat a human and most animals.

I will repeat myself. There is more energy in 1lb of meat than there is in 1lb of fruit and veg. It is a fact spiritual energy is not going to keep me alive. As for not killing my loved ones that is because they are my loved ones and I would miss them. If I hated my parents for example (say I had be beaten as I grew up or whatever) then I would not have any problem killing them in order to survive. Likewise I am not going to miss any strangers or animals that I come across.
Boy this thread is starting to tire me out it is that fast.

-Cauch1

EDIT:

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
If it was long term I would have to cultivate my own crops.

Right that kind of counters the whole surviving in the wild thing. Not only that but if you are growing crops when the law has gone to hell what is to stop someone robbing you. Especially when you object to killing so much.

[edit on 10/5/2009 by Cauch1]

reply posted on 10-5-2009 @ 10:54 AM by whitewave

Wow. I'm not a vegetarian but the OP asked a simple question and has to put up with all this flak to get an answer?

Truthfully, I don't know that a vegetarian could survive without eating meat in a wilderness situation. Try taking a one week vacation in the wild and see how much weight you've lost (if any) when you get back. That should give you some idea of whether or not wilderness vegetarianism is feasible.

I don't know how you feel about eating bugs but they are high in protein and several are high in fat. Amaranth and quinoa are are high protein. There are a lot of plants that are high in protein but not too many that have a goodly fat supply. Any oil producing seed would have fat but I'd start a grub worm farm or something.

Any agricultural endeavor would require one to be stationary so it may not be worth your while to leave for a wilderness scenario if you wish to remain vegetarian.

Try it for a week if you can and let us know your results. I, for one, would be interested to learn if it vegetarianism is possible in a wilderness situation. Best of luck.

reply posted on 10-5-2009 @ 10:56 AM by Cauch1

reply to post by whitewave

What flak? The OP and Malcram are arguing their point against mine Sonya's and audas's. It is a discussion is it not.

-Cauch1

EDIT: spelt a name wrong

[edit on 10/5/2009 by Cauch1]

reply posted on 10-5-2009 @ 10:59 AM by Indigo_Child

reply to post by Cauch1

Spiritual energy is what keeps you alive. When it's gone, your body is just a rotting carcas. If all you consume is material energy, then you will be a savage - like a cannibal. If I had a choice to survive and become a savage and die and remain spiritual, I would choose the latter. That's just my choice.

It is interesting that you would kill and eat anybody that is not related to you or your having problems with. I know I wouldn't want to be near you in a survival situation

Anyway like attracts like. If you are are going to kill and eat others for survival, others will do the same to you. It sounds like for your own survival you would allow yourself to become a savage.
I don't think that would be good for your spiritual development

You assume that I wouldn't kill another human. I would, but only if they were endagering my life or the life of somebody I consider innocent. I think violence is justified only in self-defense.

[edit on 10-5-2009 by Indigo_Child]

reply posted on 10-5-2009 @ 11:02 AM by Sonya610

Originally posted by Indigo_ChildI would hope to eat wild edible plants, nuts, fruits, berries and I would perhaps make a compromise on fish. This is only in survival circumstances. If it was long term I would have to cultivate my own crops.

First of all it will not likely happen in your lifetime. Secondly if it DOES happen it will be brutal whether you eat meat or not. If you really do not want to compromise your values then do not even try it. If you try to survive off the acorns and weeds you find in the wild you are just asking for a pathetically slow death.

I am not vegetarian but I am a Pantheist. And I would not even attempt it. Sometimes you just gotta know when its time to leave the party, and the breakdown of society to such an extent it means foraging for food means it is time for many of us.

reply posted on 10-5-2009 @ 11:09 AM by whitewave

reply to post by Cauch1

Please feel free to look up the meaning of "discussion" and then compare that with the meanings "belittle", "ridicule", "sarcasm", "denigrate", "condescension".

I think you'll see that you're not having a conversation: an active interchange of ideas, an earnest communication. You're having fun at the OP's expense. If you feel confident in your opinion that vegetarianism is not possible or practical in a survival situation, there are polite ways to say it.

reply posted on 10-5-2009 @ 11:12 AM by Cauch1

reply to post by Indigo_Child

No spiritual energy is what keeps you alive after this life. In this life actual energy keeps you alive. Now as for me eating other people I would not choose a person over an animal. I am not saying that right now I want to go out and start eating people. But I am saying that if it is me or them then I come first. It is the way that it has always been through history. I am not saying that I will find it easy to eat another person. However I am saying that I would be willing to do it in order to survive.
Continuing the main topic how would you survive in winter (or even early spring) when there is very little edible growing. The fact of the matter is that we evolved to hunter-gatherers. We are omnivores. In order to survive properly we need meat and plant food.

-Cauch1

reply posted on 10-5-2009 @ 11:15 AM by Cauch1

reply to post by whitewave

I have a rather extensive vocabulary so I have no need to look up the words that you just suggested. I am arguing my point as I see fit. If harsh words are needed to snap the OP out of their trance and therefore give them a better chance of surviving then I will use them. Besides it is true Indigo is living in a fantasy land.

-Cauch1

reply posted on 10-5-2009 @ 11:17 AM by Indigo_Child

reply to post by Sonya610

I am expecting WW3 to start in 2011, so basically I am expecting loads of people to die and most likely myself. Just before that I am expecting civil war around 2010. I am not going to just to let myself die though, I will fight for my and my loved ones survival, and maybe even the survival of strangers. The shows not over until it's over.

If by some freak chance I survive then obviously I am going to have to survive on wild food. If all is bleak, then obviously suicide is an option, but for me that would be an absolute last resort.

[edit on 10-5-2009 by Indigo_Child]

reply posted on 10-5-2009 @ 11:28 AM by Alchemst7

reply to post by Indigo_Child

I do not want to get into a debate over vegetarian vs non vegetarianism. I would just like some real useful tips on how a vegetaian could survive out in the wlderness on wild food without consuming game. Please share any resources or book recommendations if you know any. Thank you.

Funny how this turned into a debate..lol
There is a great book I recommend called, "Edible Wild Plants, a North American Field Guide" by Thomas S. Elias and Peter A Dykeman.
It has great detailed color pictures of each plant for identification, tells you what part of the plant is edible versus poisonus, the regions they are found, and how they can be prepared. the book is compact and should be found in everyone BOB kit. It even tells you what season to find certain plants. Hope this helps

reply posted on 10-5-2009 @ 11:53 AM by Indigo_Child

reply to post by Cauch1

Hehe, we differ mate. You say spiritual energy is what keeps you alive in the afterlife. I say that spiritual energy is what keeps you alive in the first place. Hence, why once its gone, the body starts to rot. If suppose you are right the body is "actual energy" then once its gone, you're gone. Period. If you believe in mind-body dualism, then you are faced with the problem on how your mind and body can interact if they are made of two different substances.

I will resolve it for you, but I will say it only once, if you don't understand or accept it the first time, then you won't accept it no how many times I repeat it to you or reason it to you. Secondy, it's off topic. You are actually existing simtaneously on many levels: physical, mental, spiritual or body, mind and spirit. The mind and body are extensions of the spirit. It is because of this extension that once your body is destroyed, your mind and soul remains. If there was no such extension it would be impossible for your body to be destroyed and your soul to exist. Let me illustrate

Dualist model: Body and Mind

Body Mind

There is a both a quantative and qualitative difference between mind body. The body is made out of matter and the mind is made out of spirit. They have nothing in common with each other so they cannot interact and exist in the same plane.

Non dual model: Body-Mind(the - repesents extention)

There is only a quantitative difference and no qualitative difference. The body and mind are both made out of the same substance, only mind is more finer than body. As mind is more fundamental it continues to exist once the body is destroyed, just like the spider continues to exist once it withdraws its web.

What is that substance that body and mind are made out of? That substance is either all matter(materialism) or all spirit(idealism) But it cannot be the former, because the mind can exist without the body, which means it is latter. Everything is made of the same spirit. You, me, animals, matter - everything. So before you consider killing a stranger or a very sentient animal in a survival situation, remind yourself that the spirit that enlivens you, is the same spirit that enlivens them.

How does this relate to food? If everything is spirit and everything is a modification of that, then it follows spirit is manifest more in certain things.
Life is an example of where spirit is the most manifest. The most enlivening things are the suns rays, oxygen, water, planets, fruit and veg.
This is why these foods have higher life-force.

Namaste

[edit on 10-5-2009 by Indigo_Child]

reply posted on 10-5-2009 @ 12:10 PM by Sonya610

Originally posted by Indigo_Child
I say that spiritual energy is what keeps you alive in the first place. Hence, why once its gone, the body starts to rot.

That is idealism not spiritualism. Everything sentient is born, everything sentient thing will die. It has nothing to do with the spiritual. If it did why would the most vicious species on the planet be so successful?

The spiritual part comes in when you realize death does not matter. Do not worship the ritual (i.e. believing your diet makes you a good person and therefore you should avoid the horrors of being incarnate), see the reality. There are lots of fears, but death is the worst because it is an absolute certainty.

Everything dies. Does that mean that everything loses spirituality? Nope. In fact probably the inverse.

reply posted on 10-5-2009 @ 12:29 PM by Indigo_Child

That is idealism not spiritualism. Everything sentient is born, everything sentient thing will die. It has nothing to do with the spiritual. If it did why would the most vicious species on the planet be so successful?

I never said it was spiritualism. I said it was idealism

The most vicious species on the planet is also the most mechanical(lifeless) on the planet. It is because they have lesser spirit. The human has more spirit, but he/she can choose if they want to live in lesser spirit or greater spirit i.e., does he want to be a lifeless machine or a noble being. Most of us today live like machines.

It all has to do with spirit. If there is no spirit, there would be nothing. It is the spirit that projects this world, it the spirit that causes life to evolve, it is spirit that enlivens them. Again, once spirit is gone, everything from the human to the animal becomes nothing more than an empty shell.

You can remove the spirit from something by damaging its vessel(i.e., killing someone) or the spirit can leave of its own accord.

We are what we eat and what we eat determines how we think. So it is very important to eat well. This means for those who want to progress spiritually to abstain from many food items(meat, nicotine and drugs, alcohol etc)

To me the science is very sound and makes a lot of sense. So I abide by it. It's also in agreement with my intuition. Of course you may not agree with it. It is a subtle science, and the only way for you to confirm it is real science is to have an instrument capable of measuring the subtle - the mind itself. Those who have, the Buddhas, the Vedic seers and holy saints and sages who have been to confirm it.

[edit on 10-5-2009 by Indigo_Child]