Russian scientists test perpetual motion machine in space

There are a lot more stories on Russian newspaper sites, in Russian -- use the yandex.ru engine if you can read them. The russian term is "вечный двигатель".

Russian scientists test perpetual motion machine in space
14.04.2009 // Pravda.Ru
english.pravda.ru...
Specialists of the Institute for Space Systems conducted successful tests of the perpetual motion machine in space. Valery Menshikov, the director of the institute, said that the machine was installed at Yubileiny satellite which was launched into orbit almost a year ago. The satellite can now move from one orbit to another with the help of the engine, which discharges no reaction mass.
The first tests were conducted in June and July of 2008. The tests revealed some problems that need further developments of the machine, but the orbital experiment was conducted successfully in general.
The new engine lasts for 15 years and can be started about 300,000 times. It uses solar batteries for its power, engineers at the institute said.

isn't a perpetual motion machine supposed to be
capable of running itself without fuel or outside influence?

If so, why does this machine need solar power?

reply to post by JimOberg


If it uses solar power than not really a perpetual motion machine is it? And why would they have to keep restarting it again that doesn't make sense either. I think there is something that is being lost in the translation here

I'd assume you'd need initial energy to get it started?

They probably don't need to run it all the time?

Vechni means forever. how could it be forever if it only lasts for 15 years? Thats a soviet way to build machines...

I think it uses solar power for on board systems. I could be wrong, but not knowing how it actually works I can't say anything either way.

Hey guys, way to scrutinize semantics, while missing the big picture!

They moved a satellite from one orbit to the next without rockets!

In other words (assuming the story is true), they just proved that Newton's 3rd Law isn't a "law" in all circumstances.

Once again, way to miss the forest, while getting smacked in the face with that great big branch.

[edit on 14-4-2009 by sir_chancealot]

We've already moved satellites from one orbit to another without rockets -- using tether momentum exchange. True, by accident -- but it was glorious.

There's no indication the Yubileini nanosat changed orbit except by natural decay over the past year. There could be a translation issue about whether the force was rotational (Hubble uses magnetic torquers for pointing -- no thrusting at all, purely electrical) or in theory translational.

An english-language article about the satellite in this magazine
www.npopm.com...
appears to mention nothing about the experiment... so there's more (or less) here than meets the eye, but it's interesting to see how it's being reported over there -- but not over here.

Most likely there is some momentum exchange using gradients of the earth's magnetic field.

In some way the 'reaction mass' could be the Earth itself coupled through its magnetic fields.

For maneuvering satellites it may be feasible since the drag is very low and you can put a force on for a very long time.

Furthermore, electromagnetic fields carry momentum themselves.

The conservation laws of physics are in no danger.

*sigh*

1. You can't win, you can only break even.
2. You can only break even at absolute zero.
3. You can never reach absolute zero.

The fact that they can't even get their terminology straight does not lend any credibility to this article. They are calling it "perpetual motion" when what they are describing is actually "reactionless thrust".

The new engine lasts for 15 years and can be started about 300,000 times. It uses solar batteries for its power, engineers at the institute said.

15 years and can be started 300,000 times != perpetual

However, both are closely related in the fact that IF they were possible it would mean that our current understanding of mathematics and/or physics is incorrect despite continuously reproducible experiments proving that they are correct to quite a few decimal places.

Not only does a reactionless thrust drive violate Newton's Third Law but it also violates the Law of Conservation of Momentum.

Now there are certain situations involving magnetically coupled particles and gravitational forces acting between objects moving very rapidly where Newton's Third Law does not apply. But there are no exceptions to the Law of Conservation of Momentum, in a closed system the total quantity of momentum cannot change, period. This has been verified to within 1 part in 1^15 with no exception ever being found.

Of course it is possible to avoid the Law of Conservation of Momentum in an open system where the propulsion system is external to the craft, a solar sail for example. However, in such a case the craft must be acted upon by an external force and thus not truly reactionless thrust or perpetual motion.

They also blatantly plagiarized the majority of the article from Wikipedia which also does not help their credibility. I'm not going to quote the whole thing to save on space but you can check for yourself.

Article
Some common ideas recur repeatedly in perpetual motion machine designs. Many ideas that continue to appear today were stated as early as 1670 by John Wilkins, Bishop of Chester and an official of the Royal Society. He outlined three potential sources of power for a perpetual motion machine, "Chymical Extractions", "Magnetical Virtues" and "the Natural Affection of Gravity".
...

Wikipedia
Some common ideas recur repeatedly in perpetual motion machine designs. Many ideas that continue to appear today were stated as early as 1670 by John Wilkins, Bishop of Chester and an official of the Royal Society. He outlined three potential sources of power for a perpetual motion machine, "Chymical Extractions", "Magnetical Virtues" and "the Natural Affection of Gravity".[1]
...

Until it can be verified by a more reputable source than a trash tabloid and I'm not going to loose any sleep over having to learn new mathematics or physics.

[edit on 14-4-2009 by deadboi]

[edit on 14-4-2009 by deadboi]

Many satellites are controlled without rockets this is nothing new unless the russians were just that far behind the US. It makes no sense in orbit manipulating gyros works quite well to move satellites. When the defense department re tasks a satellite you dont think they use rockets be very silly since they would have to go up every couple of months just to refuel them.

The engine is supposed to represent a torsion field generator based on Akimov/Shipov theories. It's pretty amazing that it was even officially allows n the satellite, considering how negative the russian science establishment has been to that business.

reply to post by akoola11


First Up =D scrw you lol we build things just fine -.-

векие/Vechie does not mean "forever" it means ages or a long time. and 15 years without fail IMO is ages =)

as for it needing solar power it stores it for a reboot/Start up =D i mean everything has a fail rate ... tanks sometimes get stuck,fords always break down, planes don't always stay in the sky, 0o blenders always stink like burnt after even the first ever use lol.
everything can fail and so we put a safety feature just in case.

reply to post by JimOberg


This may have been done before.
An electric force motor for satellite motion instead of using expendable gas.
As far as I could tell the power supply was damaged and back to the drawing
boards as they say and the idea was cancelled. Sun panels of course power
the batteries but the motion force come from the use of Tesla coils.

www.delphion.com...
US6029438: Drive circuit for electric propulsion thruster
Space Systems/Loral, Inc., Palo Alto, CA

This patent may be involved as well:
US6271614: Pulsed plasma drive electromagnetic motor generator
www.delphion.com...
It references US6029438

And an original Tesla patent:
US0512340
www.delphion.com...
A coil which in one configuration stores thousands of times the
normally wound coil.
It references US6271614

I had this here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
page 7 of my profile

My guess at what the Russians are doing.
Perpetual as long as the Sun shines and the panels and batteries work and the
Tesla force arrangement works.

Ed: That was back in 2007 and 2008 from the post and didn't know what the
Tesla force entails and have a better idea now. Its not magnetic and more like
antenna force.
Ed+: At first I thought a Papp engine in space as the best perpetual machine
example I know of but then this space application was remembered and thought
another try might be underway.
ED++: The reaction is a pull from matter on the metal coil.