Musing in life, death and consciouness

To follow are some thoughts I have loosely pondered for some time that lead me to some subjective realization of our true everlasting, unified nature. Perhaps it will awaken a few new ideas in you and I would love to hear them.

I wish to say just enough so you may find something interesting and yet leave the rest up to your own reflection in order to avoid coloring it with irrelevancies. It's my best effort to keep it 'pure' while communicating what I really cannot really communicate. I simply suggest comparing it in a context of materialist reductionism versus one of 'something more' to consciousness.

The core subjective (I AM) is all that we really can know is real and anything objective to it could be constructed in any manner. The Matrix is a weak example (basically an enjarred brain idea) but provides hints to take it down to a 'subatomic' level. Think of everything being objective to it, even thoughts themselves. All is stripped away except for the subjective. This could be thought of as a 'void'.

Death before life before death
In this life, you were just as dead before you were born or even conceived as you will be at the end, were you not? You know, ashes to ashes, dust to dust but with a slight twist.

Why this one and not another?
Day after day, moment-to-moment I am involved in this particular body, or so it seems. What seems to keep the involvement bound? One alternative way of thinking is to timeslice one single awareness into all things in a preemptive manner, analagous to how computers commonly handle multithreading on a single processor core-- forget the current task context, load the new task context (making it current), run it 'selfishly' and so on in a round-robin fashion (oversimplified but accurate).

Shouldn't it be over already?
If you've ever experienced an unaccounted-for period of time, perhaps you've noticed it seems that it never happened and that interval was "skipped" over instantaneously. From a subjective point of view, death would make the lifetime interval be the ultimate unaccounted-for period of time and that it would seem this life never occurred at all.

It's me but it's not me
Think about reincarnation. Then think about it without the common explanations of a soul and/or karma being involved. Think about if subjectivity really is lost at death in that case. If it exists at all, can it be lost? What might actually happen next? This and the second section of the four seem related and are perhaps manifestations of the same.


[edit on 4/13/2009 by EnlightenUp]

My thoughts are that there is nothing after death, but you still continue on (think of it as a soul if you wish). What I believe is we are all one in the same (Like a God!) , as a test we are released from "heaven" to test our soul. From there we have free will and no knowledge of God and the Universe, or how to get back there. Each living planet around the Universe is a different level of God likeness and each time we die we advance or simply fade to a planet or life of less gratitude until we learn the Universal Law. Love Everything no matter your situation or how someone wrong you, sometimes impossible to do but that's the test.

There is nothing after death but you still continue on you say, that has me confused lol. The gnostic cosmology is pretty intuitive and it makes sense. We're all fallen parts of Sophia, and in each person is a part of the godhead, a spark. Our goal is reintegration with Sophia and this is done by the power of the male side, the right. The spark in others is the same material as the godhead, so our attitudes towards others should be the same as the godhead.

I've heard this before, that people say "we're all Gods!!" but it's sort of meaningless because it doesn't convey any information on what we're supposed to do. It's better to say, and more accurate, that everyone else are Gods, except oneself. Then you actually have something to work for and do.

Kabbalah also has a very good explanation of things for those looking for truth. It seems people like to come up with there own system, but if its a "home grown" belief system, its a bit... irrelevant perhaps. No offense, but its a bit frustrating reading 200 different systems that seem in large part imagination and new age mumbojumbo by some guy who "just decided" to become a teacher.

I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but it's what got "conjured" up in my mind:

Science, Religion, politics, law, art, etc.:
All human constructs (whether they be divinely inspired or not), and therefore open to scrutiny, because day to day, we know that we are not right all the time, and do make mistakes, even after years and years of experience. (mistake in your own mind, not someone elses).

When you strip it all down to what you really, really know... what is left?

So who is to say that those in the past/present did/does not make mistakes?

We are here, but why are we able to think, interpret our surroundings other than just instinctual reactions?

The real human, in my opinion, is the one that doesn't settle for what is given to him/her. The real human does not just work/procreate/pay the mortgage. The real human searches for that which cannot be found, in the time he can devote to it. Though that time seems to be less and less and less as we progress forward in the current. Therfore, he/she begins to accept what is given to him/her. ...and sadly becomes, less human.

Celestine Prophecy -- great book on what I see as our true goals, though it is kind of silly and childish.

Careful though, as I have read in another thread(and agree with) there are dangers to seeking these things. "Some books are dangerous, not to be opened with impunity." - Ninth Gate

Perspective is everything.

If you've ever experienced an unaccounted-for period of time, perhaps you've noticed it seems that it never happened and that interval was "skipped" over instantaneously. From a subjective point of view, death would make the lifetime interval be the ultimate unaccounted-for period of time and that it would seem this life never occurred at all.

Actually this seems true for accounted time too, at least for me. If I look back on what I did yesterday - it all seems to be one "flash" of time and everything happened in a split-second but I only perceived it as "24 hours".

Originally posted by ghaleon12
There is nothing after death but you still continue on you say, that has me confused lol.

Perhaps I should clarify. What I was trying to communicate is a way of seeing the possibility without the prepackaged mechanisms in various belief systems.

Modern thinking seems to be trying to explain consciousness away more than explain it. In a materialist or emergentist view, something just "magically happens" and voila, consciousness, which is eminently unsatisfying.

I find myself inescapably led to the knowing that it is integral to all that is and that each part contains the seed of what's manifested in a more complex system. ALL is in fact at least as complex as any one subset of it.

Religion tends to take a 'top down' approach where as science tends to take a 'bottom up' approach-- loosely and at the poles, 'we're the Gods that came down in order to know ourselves' vs. 'we're the mud that got up to know ourselves'.

The gnostic cosmology is pretty intuitive and it makes sense. We're all fallen parts of Sophia, and in each person is a part of the godhead, a spark. Our goal is reintegration with Sophia and this is done by the power of the male side, the right. The spark in others is the same material as the godhead, so our attitudes towards others should be the same as the godhead.

I have also read this explanation as involution of spirit into the material among other symbolisms, each slightly different but seemingly expressing something essentially the same.

I've heard this before, that people say "we're all Gods!!" but it's sort of meaningless because it doesn't convey any information on what we're supposed to do. It's better to say, and more accurate, that everyone else are Gods, except oneself. Then you actually have something to work for and do.

My point here was to consider processes and tools, or better yet, to share some thought experiments. To hear "we're all Gods" should spark a personal quest to realize the truth about that. If I deny it to myself from the start, what am I working towards? Perhaps you are saying that the denial is not a denial of the essential nature but just a tool to catalyze a process of becoming more aware? I suppose denying one's self the opportunity to reflect on such a statement and being enamored by the declaration of it can lead to abominations. It's a way of maintaining humility to in order to grow naturally.

Our existence here may be the very denial of which you speak with the purpose of unfolding into the knowing.

Kabbalah also has a very good explanation of things for those looking for truth. It seems people like to come up with there own system, but if its a "home grown" belief system, its a bit... irrelevant perhaps. No offense, but its a bit frustrating reading 200 different systems that seem in large part imagination and new age mumbojumbo by some guy who "just decided" to become a teacher.

I am not trying to promote a belief system nor present myself with any authority. There are many paths. More established teachings I encountered later tended to agree with the essence of my personal epiphanies more than disagree.

when I was younger, like a little kid (22 now), i was deeply interested in life after death. I figured this had to be cyclic, so i thought, "ok, if i try hard enough, i'll be able to remember what it was like, before i was born." Well needless to say I tried and tried, eventually I would get to almost like a blocker in my memory. I would remember things super super early, thing my parents sworn i wasnt alive to see. Then before that I would only remember darkness, like it is with your eyes closed, but having a sense of still being "alive". It was extremely odd. Now as a young adult, I tend to believe that life after death before life, is one of two things. The first being a reliving of your happiest consecutive years in life, with memory "deletion" at the end of each pass. Or being the same feeling of deep tranceful meditation, just floating through space (which eventually you would come into contact with the "spiritual realm")

but yes I think about these things a lot, probably more than i should, so expect me to show up on this thread again

Er, hey this is a deep subject. I'd honestly need to ponder it for a while. I think this plain here, and now is controlled by something evil. I think we all in our true natural state of being are our own creatures. We are eternal in that state, but somehow something evil has gotten a hold of us all here. I think some of us are indeed special, and here to help, but you'd never know that person was.

I can see all points in the original OP through the reality of multidimensional consciousness. However, this plain of captivity here, and now is set forth with finite rules, and regulations imposed to keep the veil over us. I'll need to think on this, and OP if you have anything to add, or comment on what I wrote, then please do.

Originally posted by sanchoearlyjones
I'll need to think on this, and OP if you have anything to add, or comment on what I wrote, then please do.

Thank you for posting here!

I'm still in a state of confusion about things I brought up here and I'm not sure what to do with it all just yet. I thought I'd let the incompleteness of my mind hang out in the open here and bring more nodes online in the fun.

In this plane, I do feel like we're involved in it because we wanted to be and to make it work became dumb enough to believe our own lies.

My main problem with so much metaphysics is the presence of explanatory gaps especially in relation to the hard problem of consciousness. They have an alluring ring, seemingly being the answer to many mysteries but going deeper one finds some real problems.

Saying it's soul, oneness, illusion, multidimensionality, etc. is of little value in understanding how the machine actually operates. Human cogitations seem to count more as an effort to explain things away rather than to explain them (or better yet, grok them). One has to be a bit bold not to simply "settle for". Everything begets more "why" and "how" behind it.

Take the Matrix once more. While Neo may have indeed been a "master" of the Matrix, with knowing about its nature and how to use "cheat codes", what knowledge did he possess of the systems themselves? Was he intimately familiar with the actual engineering nitty gritty of the whole system? What "lines of code" ran his or anyone else's avatar program? It seemed like various characters in the movie had pieces of the puzzle but noone really had a total knowledge, not even the Architect himself (being unable to fully grasp the ontology of the residents it was designed for, there was always an "anomaly" rearing its ugly head and not even he could escape the necessity of it). There was still specialization.

Suddenly, I am realizing that I need to allow myself to be truely "insane" for at least short stints to make any real headway.

Originally posted by EnlightenUp
The core subjective (I AM) is all that we really can know is real and anything objective to it could be constructed in any manner. The Matrix is a weak example (basically an enjarred brain idea) but provides hints to take it down to a 'subatomic' level. Think of everything being objective to it, even thoughts themselves. All is stripped away except for the subjective. This could be thought of as a 'void'.

Yes. But there is a certain state that accompanies this mere knowledge you are sharing. 2-dimensional words on a computer-screen are about as remote from the experience as can be. There is a field...that field is outrageous, vast, radiant, when perceived by the ego it is perceived as "infinite void".

Death before life before death In this life, you were just as dead before you were born or even conceived as you will be at the end, were you not? You know, ashes to ashes, dust to dust but with a slight twist.

From the viewpoint of consciousness infinite, there never was any birth to begin with, just a temporary focus of awareness on planet earth through a body-vehicle. "Death" equals retrieving that focus. From that viewpoint all the dramas of life go by in a minute - a one minute movie.

It's me but it's not me

Exactly.

[edit on 12-9-2009 by Skyfloating]

reply to post by Skyfloating


Somehow I feel I almost have this thing cracked in a tangible way. I sincerely believe it's possible to do. It's so close. It's a bit crazymaking.

This seems to mirror how I handle complicated computer code. I just stare at it with no real effort. Eventually the workings just pop out and seem obvious. At that point I'm not sure how I didn't see it clearly from the start. I just have to wait for it though. Too much effort spoils the likelihood.

such things are very profitable to think upon, i believe
especially if done without attachments and the subsequent passions which make for unbalanced and stubborn opinions

you seem to favor the dispassionate approach just as i do

what i've found, in my own personal experience, is that the processes of working through these things does inevitably lead to progress and understanding

by that, i mean that the "lost time" episodes become shorter and fewer and fainter until they reveal themselves to be not blanks but rather clouds or veils that somehow become easy to lift, revealing true continuity of consciousness.

and THAT is what makes some of us KNOW that death is not an "end" nor birth a "beginning" but merely transitions of mystical but absolutely empirical and pragmatic experience.

once you learn not to drink from the pool of forgetfulness...you need only sip the waters of the pool of remembrance.

you are who you are
it's only a matter of overcoming the soul's tendency toward amnesia!

reply to post by queenannie38


Ever since God crushed my head...

...well...

...now some light gets in.

So far so good.

To the OP, good post, I cannot believe some of the replies you got. Here is my own take, I know reincarnation is a reality, for many reasons, even the Early Christians believed this too,
but later control factors dictated that people have but one life, for some unknown reasoning.
Simply put, I see dead people. not all of them, and not all the time, but I do see the dead. sometimes, on a rare occasion, I can hear them too. A few months ago, I saw my Grandpa, and he passed on in 1964 when I was 7 years old. He took me on a ride in his '51 Ford Club Sedan, and it was no longer rusty, but in pristine condition. He himself looked no more than 30, even though he was 61 when he passed. On this ride he told me a great many things about stuff we often talk about in this forum. And no, you cannot convince me he was a demon, or an ET, there were things about him only I knew.

Humanity is caught in a trap, a prison if you will, an electronic-magnetic prison that is controlled by what I believe are fourth dimensional ET beings of unknown origin. When we "die," that which is our spiritual form is captured by a device I believe to be on the Moon.
When the Spirit goes though, all memories are wiped away, and the Spirit, which is composed of Pure Energy, is neutralized, ready for a new human body. Only those who are versed in forming a Merkaba will retain any memories of other lifetimes. Surely I must have known this in a previous life, or else I would not be able to remember events from other lifetimes. And I do remember....events and sometimes names and places too.

What I am thinking is that many of us can already do this, and have already risen to a higher spiritual being than most people are...and, that when the moment comes, we should all escape and start our own universe and worlds, free from this prison. What thinks you, ATS?

Consciousness is like a fire. Tend it properly and you end up with a powerful force. Ignore it and it goes to ashes. Why is there such radical differences between the consciousness and Spirituality of human beings? Many are simply rooted in the material world. My search has been to enlarge my consciousness over time. Patience is so critical as these things don't happen in a few minutes or days or weeks. It needs to be a lifetime pursuit. Sometimes we get to plateaus where it seems we are making no progress, but it really isn't so. If you can allow yourself to relax and be patient, there is truth right around the corner. It has to kind of percipitate out and down into your Spirit and mind. Sometimes we aren't ready for a truth we might be seeking at any point in time, like we have to be spoonfed a little at a time. Time may be an illusion, but here in the 3rd dimension it is absolutely necessacery. I want to be a better person over time, mentally, Spiritually, and relationship wise. Meditation and prayer work for me.

[edit on 18-4-2010 by deadred]