Somali Pirates Seize 21 American Sailors

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


OK, so I only read the first the first page, but I knew I could count on you to splain it to me.
These guys are mere peons and they are testing the US in front of the whole world. Don't you see it?
They aren't even worthy of any quagmire, besides quagmire is a state of mind and not a atate of being.
You say The President can not get involved in these matters for the reason you mention, I say "how convenient of him".
Obama has yet to follow any of the Presidential protocols since he became Prez, so why should he start now?
If he is going to break from protocol why not do something right for a change.

One of the reasons the rest of the world wanted Obama as Prez is because they knew he would be yet another push over lefty President, and he prooving them right by sucking up to Turkey and bowing to Saudi kings.

reply to post by donwhite


Mr White, I'm quite surprised at you, letting the tabloids dictate to you what is and isn't news.
But with the Palin story you brought up, you actually proved my point for me.
In other words, you piss off Mama Bear, you will have to deal with Mama Bear and the world will watch.
Quite the stark contrast we are currently seeing with Obowma the passifist Prez.

The pirates on the lifeboat has called for reinforcements and other ships controlled by pirates along with the other hostages are heading there. Hmmm I wonder what advantage this could give to the U.S. Navy.

reply to post by deltaboy


Hm, my opinion is that any ship that gets too close to the bloody dingy should simply get blown out of the water. Hell, if the captain can get away again they should blow the dingy out of the water.

Originally posted by deltaboy
The pirates on the lifeboat has called for reinforcements and other ships controlled by pirates along with the other hostages are heading there. Hmmm I wonder what advantage this could give to the U.S. Navy.

The pirates are bringing seized ships along with hostages to rescue their comrades and seek safe passage back to the coast.

This move changes the game Obama is playing. Now there will be 54 hostages and several hijacked vessels. The hostages are from several countries, as are the vessels, so now he will be able to establish an "international" response, rather than act unilaterally.

When the captain jumped off of the life boat, why didn't .50 cals blow the dingy out of the water? My guess is the standing orders from Obama via Clinton is not to engage.

It was Bill Clinton's cowardice and pullout in Mogadishu in 1993 that started this ball rolling.

Amazing: watch this clip to see Hillary laugh about piracy and the hostages:
.

Putin and the Chinese must be laughing at our lack of resolve.



[edit on 10-4-2009 by greenorbs]

reply to post by Alxandro

These guys are mere peons and they are testing the US in front of the whole world. Don't you see it?

Oh noes! Imagine what's going to happen to our "great" reputation?

The entire world is giving the US sh*t for dragging them down the toilet with them in the worst financial crisis in recent history.

Do you want to go and brawl with every one who so much as looks at the US cross-eyed?

Precisely the attitude that preceded Afghanistan and Iraq. Now you want to get stuck knee-deep in Somalian quicksand.
Did you learn nothing from 1993? Obviously NOT.
Somali will bleed the US out just like Iraq is doing.

besides quagmire is a state of mind and not a atate of being.

And 50% of the population aren't fat, they're just "well-rounded".

Nice try.

The US military is stuck. Physically and mentally. None of the top brass want to budge a foot out of Iraq, but all of them want to get out of that godforsaken region.
That's a quagmire.

I say "how convenient of him".

How convienient of Bush too leaving this issue to the last minute, not touching it and pawning it off onto Obama.
Another wonderful legacy!

Stop seeing this as a Democrat-Republican issue from your narrow-minded viewpoint.

It's a Republicrat issue. Neither side wants to touch this. They could care less about international shipping.

It'd take 20 American ships capsizing in the Gulf of Aden before they got off their fat asses...

Obviously you don't understand what it means to be in two unwinnable conflicts at the same and then have people give you suggestions for a third.

Bit like having both your arms amputated and someone asking you "for a hand".

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


Our reputation might not be good, but who is perfect? All that matters is there are American lives at stake, and we need to do everything possible to get them back. Just because you have nothing better to do than sit at home and whine about how everything is the United States' fault, financial crisis and all, doesn't mean you can just spout off like you have no care for human life. I think they are doing a good job actually, sending 2 missile cruisers that probably have seal extraction teams means they are trying.

My Opinion

Anybody ever thought of staying out of Somali waters? if you didn't enter their territory then you have less risk of pirates coming on board your ship.

Seems like a pretty simple solution

anyway that's my opinion

reply to post by USamf

doesn't mean you can just spout off like you have no care for human life.

That's not my "spouting" that's the Government. Republican or Democrat you won't see this issue rectified for some time. Mark my words.

Life means surprisingly little to people who've lose it on a daily basis.

Just do not understand..The US and other nations should just carpet bomb the Somolia harbor where these thugs home base out of and walla...no more boats...and everytime the buy more boats...carpet bomb again..repeat process as before...done..

reply to post by Miishgoos

Anybody ever thought of staying out of Somali waters?

As said before, money talks. There's a lot of cargo flowing through Aden not the least of which is OIL. That precious black goo that makes people at ExxonMobil and Halliburton foam at the mouth.

Blocking off 2 million square miles of ocean is impossible unless a combined, multi-national naval blockade is formed (when hell freezes over of course).

Here's one expert's advice:

But embarrassment aside, there is real potential for loss of life and for continued attacks on vessels plying these waters. The issue is simple but difficult -- how do we eliminate the pirate threat?

Strangely, we seem unable to learn from our own history. In 1804 President Thomas Jefferson said "Enough" to paying 20 percent of the U.S. national budget as tribute to Barbary pirates. His response was clear and successful -- build a strong naval task force, equip it with a sizeable contingent of Marines, and send it to attack and defeat the pirates in their lair. The sailors and Marines sent on that mission did just that -- and in the process wrote a stirring page in our nation's early history.

The problem today is that we have refused to take the Jefferson model. We've confined our anti-piracy efforts to the open seas and left the pirates' home bases on land as a sanctuary. Thus, the pirates continue to operate with relative freedom and stealth. We and our allies only respond, never seizing the initiative.

The Jefferson model is a better answer: Take on the pirates where they are, rather than guessing where they will be. In short, attack them at their home bases.

cnn

As Seekerof points out in a different thread, this pirating has been going on for longer than I was aware.

At first I just thought it was something masterminded by the NWO cabal. Now, I'm not so sure. If any of you saw the movie 'Black Hawk Down", that movie was based on events that actually happened in Mogadishu (capital city of Somalia) in 1993.

As that movie portrayed, the soldiers of Somalia are absolutely brutal, able and fearless. That's who we're dealing with in these hijackings. Apparently the hijackers are boldly challenging the French and American navies by bringing in 6 more hijacked ships to proximity of the Maersk Alabama, to act as "interference" and to confuse any attempts by the US navy to maneuver and do their thing.

This is much, much more serious than I realized. This is gonna get real, real nasty. Here's the most recent article about it from Al Jazeera.

english.aljazeera.net...

Originally posted by Miishgoos
Anybody ever thought of staying out of Somali waters? if you didn't enter their territory then you have less risk of pirates coming on board your ship.

Since when is 350 miles still in Somali waters? Most of these pirate attacks are taking place on the edge of YEMENI waters.

reply to post by greenorbs

His response was clear and successful -- build a strong naval task force, equip it with a sizeable contingent of Marines, and send it to attack and defeat the pirates in their lair.

You do realise we're not facing Barbary Pirates that are flying under the Turkish flag?

These guys are Kenyans, Somalians, Sudanese, Yemenese, Gulf Arabs, Ethiopians, amongst a wide variety of various people.

They simply use Somalia as a staging ground. After they dock at shore, and bury their speedboats in the sand they disappear into god knows where until they decide to take up another takeover once they see some tasty cargo come their way.

You can just blow up Somalia and expect the problem to disappear. They'll set up shop in Kenya, or Yemen, or Djibouti and just rise up again.

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


My Opinion

Why should anybody care then, if they want to take the risk then they can take the risk, they should just stop complaining about it.

thats my opinion

Originally posted by The Godfather of Conspira
reply to post by greenorbs

You can just blow up Somalia and expect the problem to disappear. They'll set up shop in Kenya, or Yemen, or Djibouti and just rise up again.

Of course not. Long term, you try to build up infrastructure and a government that enforces human rights. Short tern, you kill the pirates, the really rich guys living in huge mansions.

Ransoms have usually been paid with cash airdrops and divvied up among the many, many local actors with a finger in this pie. The pirates and their financial backers use the money to build homes, get married, invest in businesses in Nairobi Kenya.

washington post

[edit on 10-4-2009 by greenorbs]

A lot of people are hung up on thinking "we" need to blockade this area, or put forth a hurculean effort to patrol vast amounts of water...We don't. If we would simply sink a few pirate vessels the word would get out and piracy would subside. Don't tell me that with the assets we already have in that area of the world we can't find and track a handful of the pirates and make a fireworks display out of their ships. And please don't mistake my words. I don't mean we blow up the boats holding hostages. For that I have faith that our spec op's community if given the green light could address the majority of the hostage situations that the pirates are currently causing. Every time we give them money or allow them to leave without reprisal we are empowering them to continue their piracy operations. Additionally, I'm all for arming the crews of these cargo ships. I understand there are a lot of issues both legal and logistically about it but I still think it's a good idea.

Final words, if we (the U.S.A.) allow this act of piracy against a U.S. flagged ship with a U.S. crew to go unabated we will create more headaches than would be created from aggressive action against the pirates.

reply to post by PhoenixDemon

If we would simply sink a few pirate vessels the word would get out and piracy would subside. Don't tell me that with the assets we already have in that area of the world we can't find and track a handful of the pirates and make a fireworks display out of their ships.

It may seem that easy from the comfort of your armchair but it's not.

The pirates as said before, operate in an area of some 2 million square miles of ocean.
In addition to this they launch from isolated bays and coats all along Somalia, not major ports.

They simply bury their speedboats in the sand and disappear into the woodwork after each attack.

The US Navy NEEDS most of the Surface Fleet in the Persian Gulf currently.

Logistical operations alone require the movement of a whopping 700 tons of cargo and 4,000 people to and from Iraq per week to keep Iraq well-oiled.

Not including of course the security and freighters requiring to move stuff in and out of Afghanistan just downstream and carrier assets for air cover and surveillance, destroyers to patrol Iranian territorial borders and NAVY Seal teams to demine the Gulf and fight insurgency operations at sea.

It's consuming more Naval operational ability than you think.

Sending even a fleet of 10 Ticonderogas and 10 Arleigh Burkes into Somalian Waters to wander up and down looking for pirates wouldn't help a bit.

You can't chase aluminium-hulled speedboats in cruisers and destroyers.

We'd need a huge array of air assets to keep tabs on movements and relay positions back to the Naval Taskforce first, which we don't have.

Then, we'd need SEAL counter-insurgency teams to deploy their own FPB's and chase down the nimble bastards. Take them on one on one.

It's such a nightmare intelligence-wise, logistics-wise, support-wise to even consider.

reply to post by The Godfather of Conspira


I understand the vastness of the area...and I won't take as an insult your comment about me "sitting in my armchair"...But here's a thought, start by addressing the 5 or so "pirated vessels" heading in to assist the pirates holding the captain...Wow a breakthrough in naval intelligence has just occurred!