Brothers, 10 and 11, giggle in dock as they are accused of attempted Murder

Originally posted by On the level
reply to post by Circle

 

Already apologised for slamming only single mothers should not have been so flippant in the OP. However again you are part of the problem when your solution is that wages should be more and you blame capitalism. What would you prefer instead of capitalism, perhaps communisim whereas they would be in working farms??? sounds good to me. And when you add a biased post well it suits me as that is my personal opinion and I am not alone. The current policies of the labour government are doing nothing but encourage sloth and crime whereas on the flip side of the coin driving skilled workers out of the country. It is all setting up a very bleak future for the UK.

I have a very good friend who brought up two boys on her own because the Father (I use the term in a loose term) was an alcholic and was told to go. She brought them up as decent people. She scrimped and saved, supported their education through grammar school and was there when they needed it. You need to think carefully before coming out with generalizations. Don't be surprised if you get your head bitten off after making prejudiced comments. At least you had the decency to apologize I will give you that.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by Circle]

Perhaps they listened to Marilyn Manson? As I myself do from time to time.

LMAO..VERY unlikely, anyone in the UK can vouch for me will testify that 99% of the violence comes from these inbreds listening to Rap/Gansta music such as Eminem, 50 Cent, whatever Rap music comes out from America these days. If anything its the people who listen to Marilyn Manson such as Sophie Lancaster who are the victims themselves of such violent attacks by these low-life scum.
Britain seriously needs to look at its social status, we could easil solve out the problem of these young thugs/idiots/whatever, but noone dares take a stand because these idiots always fight weaker people 9 to 1 (despite them being in the minority, with the vast majority living on low-cost council estates.)
Most likely these 2 kids who were in Foster care were spoilt rotten, given the latest Manhunt games, allowed to watch 18+ horror movies, smoked Weed with the "older boys", and the parents darent do a thing about it because being Foster parents they didnt feel it was their place to punish them.

reply to post by Circle


I appreciate the back up, My dad was a single dad, my mum left me and was seen as a risk, my dad battled against social services for custody over me they made his life hell and watched him screwtany, he bloody worked hard some times at 50-60 hours a week, he got himself in to debt over £70 thousand and all that for me, he has good credit history, he just paid of his mortgage with his pension lump and has money left over for me when he dies, I have been in and out of school, i have never kept in a job, i have coursed problems in the past but i have saved my own life i have done better with my life but i have lived the life of 'no return' were your isolated and bored and have no guidance in life, it can't even be blamed on parents, on some parents maybe, their is some awful parents out their both on benefits and those working, it doest really matter.

Scum dose not come just because your on benefits, that is outrageous claim to make, for example not all chavs are bad there are some good ones, because i use to be one and i am now a good lad, getting on with life, this is not a site to pre jugde like that am sorry its not welcome here, what these young lads have done is not new, i am 26 year old now and when i was a kid i had it then from kids who did this type of thing it is not new and that was in a posh area, these kids have been neglected by their parents so they react in such a way, they do not understand or want to understand what is right or wrong because they mum or dad is not their to tell them so.

I think it's pointless looking for broader explanations as to why these monsters have acted as they have. Often generalisations are made that really don't stand-up to scrutiny. It doesn't necessarily follow that a person born to a life of poverty will be come a thief or become violent. Similarly a person from a family dependent on benefits won't necessarily have a 'mentality' often attributed to a 'benefits culture'. The same can be said about parenting, 'broken homes', education (or lack of) and so on.

It's rarely one thing that can be claimed to be responsible and more often a combination of factors - again factors that won't necessarily be the same 'trigger' for others of the same demographics.

We can only be concerned ourselves with the two people in question (I'm loathe to use the words like 'children' or 'youngsters' as they're too loaded as terms to have any real neutrality here) and their own backgrounds rather than the backgrounds of many, many others who we assume to be in similar circumstances.

As for the relevancy of their ages, I'm always curious as to why it should be that much of an issue when it comes to culpability. It's generally accepted in child psychology that a sense of 'right and wrong' appears much, much earlier than any of their two ages. I think people often underestimate this in cases like this. To illustrate this, I'm fairly sure that if this crime was perpetrated on the two accused rather than them being the perpetrators themselves, they'd be fairly convinced that what had been done to them was somehow 'wrong'. It's also very unlikely that this understanding would be a new one and only brought about by this specific experience. These two would have known they have done wrong.

I was joking about the MM thing.

What I was getting at was how the media and other 'groups' look to blame anything other than the youths themselves and their family/parents for their actions.

Speaking of Sophie Lancaster, I think that the stand her family are taking against such attacks is admirable.

Peace,

MGGG

reply to post by ROBL240


spot on mate,

I feel like a stranger around where I live, nobody cares anymore and most cant even be bothered to look you in the eye and just smile.
in fact im sure i was called gay once, just for smiling, makes me feel very alien but got the strenght to say, hey i aint got the problem.

The community spirit has been broken, people ignore eachother in built up areas unless you have been living there all your life. that aint to say everyone aint like that but from my experience, i have few friends in the city, mainly people i work with.

In fact I would go as far as saying the asian community says hello to me more than anybody else in the street.

defo broken britain.

damn i want to move back to the countryside.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by Sparkey76]

reply to post by InfaRedMan


disability pensions? i am 26, am a bit young for pension, incapacity benefit is something in the uk were someone is unable to work at the present moment who may be able to work in the future.

reply to post by On the level


I totally understand were your coming from, I know there is some nasty individuals claiming incapacity or even job seekers etc and waste the money away, i seen alot of those aggressive violent people who have nothing else to do and yes they are scum and they should be forced to work and the government realise this and that's why they want to stamp it out and see who really needs the help and who don't, the state of the country is in dire straight

reply to post by Sparkey76


Sparkey76, moving to the countryside would be the idealistic option but that has also been ruined by the government. Historically, rural areas have always been much more difficult to integrate into, even British people who move there often find that they are "always" regarded as outsiders.

The countryside is suffering from a crime wave of a different sort.

The New Labour regime decided that to try keep the immigration issue out of sight and out of mind the rural areas were just the spots to centre immigration by turning a blind eye to the concentration of new arrivals to these zones. Now, there are Russian and Chinese work gangs in large numbers and the crime levels have soared.

A spot poll of reports of violent crime in these areas turns up an alarming mention of "Eastern Europeans". There is a litany of evidence that Chinese immigrants are exploited by work gangs.

It's OK though, because it is the countryside and the folks with the straw behind their ears don't matter - they probably vote for the "other side" anyway so they don't lose any supporters.

The rural areas of England have been inundated with immigrants - much more than they can handle and nothing has been noted or said - Besides which, if we bumpkins cause trouble then we are made to look like racists who badly need to learn to integrate. How can you win?

This is all just evidence of a society in breakdown, the boiling eruption of the melting pot of cultures that clash. Youths turning to "gangsta" attitudes as a way of defining their own role in society because there is no leadership from the top down.

We have to start drawing lines in the sand. We have to reclaim England.

Originally posted by deathpoet69
reply to post by InfaRedMan

 

disability pensions? i am 26, am a bit young for pension, incapacity benefit is something in the uk were someone is unable to work at the present moment who may be able to work in the future.

I'm sure your smart enough to know what I meant... or are you just having a good old whinge? Chillax!

IRM

reply to post by SugarCube


Benefit cheats and single mothers with 20 million inbred children are far more of a problem than immigrants who generally work and get on with their lives, and in doing so are helping the economy.

The mostly white scum who plague our council estates being total leeches to society are the biggest problem we have faced and will probably be the downfall of this country. Sadly not many have the courage to point fingers at them as they are 'our own' when there is a much easier group to identify and target (plus, it sells more when you pander propaganda to the larger group).

What can be done about these dregs with no morals and no greater understanding of life and love beyond their favourite TV soaps and where they can squeeze out the next webbed-toed offspring for more £££££ from the state is beyond me.

Just sayin' how it is in a language they understand.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by Goathief]

As much as I hate what these kids did, is Middle Eastern justice really necessary?

I really don't want to see a return to body mutilation and cruel execution as punishment, as much as it angers me to see these people get off scott free.

Remember what Socrates said.

This isn’t really anything new, from the street gangs of London in the 18th century to today’s hoodies, this problem has been around forever.

That’s not to say that we can’t improve society but we’re deluding ourselves if we can think we can eradicate the violent element of society.

Nothing can be done to eradicate such behaviour. Such crimes are barbaric, and no amount of social workers, nor increased benefits etc can ever prevent such things from happening.

Lock them up, throw away the key. Enforced labour projects to subsidize their worthless existence.

Originally posted by On the level
Plus forgot to add that I came from a terrible area in Glasgow, was worse than a council estate however my parents worked two jobs each to give us a better life and I am now a business graduate with two homes in Edinburgh and manage a insurance firm in Scotland that gives cover to all of the Armed Forces in Scotland. Not bragging but you can do anything with the right attitude and support from your parents. I agree with the posts that the kids have to an extent been let down by their parents but at 11 years old I was playing with lego and fishing myself, I never attacked other kids for their money or slashed them with a knife. Think these little demons deserve a lifetime done the salt mines

Try doing that with a single mother trying her best to provide, not as easy. We all don't get the same lives, there are positives and negatives to everything.

Single mothers have to be STRONG, it's VERY hard for single mothers to get by, especially when people judge them or treat them different if they don't have the father around, it's different without that kind of support.

Just saying all the single mothers out there who are trying their best, good for them, you gotta respect them for staying strong.

But your right with the right attitude you can accomplish many great things.


[edit on 8-4-2009 by _Phoenix_]

Originally posted by deathpoet69
reply to post by On the level

 

EXCUSE me, me and my wife are on incapacity benefit, we are on course work to eventually get a job, do not brand everyone on benefits as scum ok?. I have been a tear away child, my dad was a full time worker, with a mortgage and i was terrible! so do you lot mind? your on above top secret with that type of attitude.

[edit on 8-4-2009 by deathpoet69]

its true what your saying, nobody should tar anybody with the same brush, i have recently lost my job so am forced to go onto benefits, my childs mother is on benefits because if she goes to work, who will look after our daughter? i was looking at the fees of day nurseries yesterday they are extortion, think before you speak other people are not as lucky as you, i wish i was in the position to judge others and say things like you pay so much tax

This case has reminded me also of little James Bulger,and the harrowing attack on him!

Those little b*st*rds new exactly what they were doing to that poor little boy,just as the little b*st*rds in this more recent case knew what they were doing also!

Sorry for the bad language,but i absolutely abhor any violence toward children,no matter what the age of the perpetrators!!

Originally posted by machinegun_go_go
Sickening, absolutely sickening...

This is bringing back to mind the horrific case of Jamie Bulger, which I'm sure any UK ATS'ers of a certain age will remember.

A true underclass exists now and I am at a loss as what we do to rectify the situation.

My heart goes out to the poor victims of these two evil scumbags.

Peace,

MGGG

If children, of all people, are "scumbags" chances are they learned those behaviors from an extremely sick society.

The UK, the land where its Ok to walk all over human beings...

If you think that a society that breeds CCTV isn't going to have trouble with its youth you should think again.

[edit on 4/8/2009 by dalan.]

I think you all have missed the point - the REAL villian is the Stanley knife!

That is why ALL knives (in the hands of civilians) Must be DESTROYED!!

It's a Good Thing the Queen Mum made Bat'Leths illegal a while back - or who knows what might have happened!



As far as these pre-teen offenders - throw the book at them - there is no legitimate reason for leniency here that I can see.

reply to post by On the level


I posted this a couple of days ago, but noone saw it.

I am disgusted too.

Here it is:

www.abovetopsecret.com...