I need proof.

Originally posted by platoslab
reply to post by Gawdzilla

 

I don't assume anything nor have that luxury. Many different factors are considered before arriving to a conclusion or theory. Even if I am proven wrong in the future with new evidence, knowledge is gained and progress is achieved. The scientific method wins either way.

You, my friend, appear to have formed a conclusion before honestly reviewing anything. Labeling everyone deluded will not change the fact there is trace evidence and reliable (professionally trained) witnesses. Your assumptions may be comforting for you but accomplishes nothing.

I'm merely challenging the assumption you have made. It's not MY fault if you can't see that you're assuming quite a lot.

Just do the research and decide for yourself, that is the best you can short of experiencing it yourself. Good luck and happy hunting!

^_^

Originally posted by hornum
thats rediculous! Unidentified flying objects or unexplained flying objects? If i locked you in a room since birth meanwhile telling you of all the mazing things outside would you believe me?

reply to post by pieman

 

Horum...maybe you are locked in a room, the one you have created in your mind...take for instance, do you have proof of pyrimids, sure you have seen photos and movies but have you ever gone up to one, touched it made sure it was real. The answer is probably "NO", the same with me, but I still believe they are real. Same goes with UFO's, I guess you can call it reliable faith with all the pics, movies and accounts.

[edit on 10-4-2009 by TooRisky]

reply to post by hornum


Sorry you feel this way, but we have passed the days of not knowing a loooooong time ago. Educate yourself, separate the @#$ from real info. A good starting point would be narcap.org...

All the best,

N

Originally posted by TooRiskyHorum...maybe you are locked in a room, the one you have created in your mind...take for instance, do you have proof of pyrimids, sure you have seen photos and movies but have you ever gone up to one, touched it made sure it was real. The answer is probably "NO", the same with me, but I still believe they are real. Same goes with UFO's, I guess you can call it reliable faith with all the pics, movies and accounts.

[edit on 10-4-2009 by TooRisky]

That is what is called a BS-filter failure. I visited the pyramids when I was stationed in the Med, back in the 70s. You can go to them, if you wish. You can verify their existence. You can't do that with flying saucers.

reply to post by Gawdzilla


not all the skulls show signs of skull binding. if you dont believe me, perhaps you should read as much as you can on this subject. It has been recorded that archaeologists who excavated in malta DID call them a different race. But, sigh... its up to you what you believe and how deeply you check into things; or whether you blindly believe the 'experts' and mainstream media and assume that no one has any motive to lie to you. I hope you will at least look at the photos of all these different skulls and decide for yourself if you havent already.

I also intially believed the skull binding explanation, but after looking at many pictures and reading a lot of articles and books, i have now changed my mind. there are MAINSTREAM articles that say there are no signs of skull binding on some skulls. that is how the 'deformity' attempt at an explanation came into play. If they were all BOUND, there would be no reason for scientists to assert that they were caused by a DEFORMITY.

.. to the person who said it wasn't proof - when you get an accumulation of physical evidence that fits into a particular theory, you get pretty close to the proof you need. At least you get a theory that certainly hasnt been DISPROVEN yet.


if by proof you mean a peer reviewed scientific article believing in ufos, you'l be waiting a long time i think. If by proof you mean an actual ufo crash lands on your lawn, well, providing the govt doesnt remove it int the interests of national security which i think would be quite likely (or the alien doesnt abduct you ), you cud be waiting a while for that, statistically.

I dont understand the modern obsession with proof. its like a child asking for something to be proven to them all the time. go out and do research and look for the proof. if you're waiting to be spoon fed by someone, you'll be vulnerable to manipulation by anyone who wants to manipulate you. also, as nothng in the universe is probably ever certain, any theory is just a theory until it is disproven. nothing is ever really proven. can you even prove that you or i exist? How, if one day you will no longer exist? then how do you know you ever did exist in the dimension at least that i exist in?

come back after you no longer exist and prove to m e that you existed. only problem is, i may no longer exist, so it cud be difficult to prove it to me.




Mood: irritable...

www.puppstheories.com...

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

www.crystalinks.com...

anw.com...

www.diagonal-view.com...

english.pravda.ru...

reply to post by rapunzel222


"not all the skulls show signs of skull binding. if you dont believe me, perhaps you should read as much as you can on this subject."

That's just another way of saying, "I don't have a reputable source for my claims." Not really a response, just a post.

All that matters is to define for yourself what is proof, what is evidence, and what is not.

Let me take a few examples.

I have never been to Afghanistan. I have been told that there is a war over there. I even have seen pictures of it. Should I believe it? Is that a proof to me? Well actually, I even have a friend who has been there, and he told me that there is indeed a war over there. But why should I believe him? Maybe he has been told to tell people that there is a war, but there really is nothing happening over there? But you see... I think I can trust that friend, and many of the sources that have showed me pictures of the war, or accounts of people who have been there, even if I don't know them. Wouldn't it be stupid from me to refuse to believe in that war? Those people have nothing to gain to make me believe that there is a war over there...

And then, there is this man who went to the abysses in his submarine. He has told everybody about strange fishes, he even took pictures! But should I believe him? I mean, once again, I've never been down there...

Also, there are those people who have been in deep caves. Apparently they have seen drawings on the walls. Did they invent it? I have never been there, how could I know for sure?

Hey, guess what? There are dozens if not hundreds of thousands of people who even talk about UFOs, or even alien creatures. But surely they must be lying. I mean, I have never seen an alien myself, so why would I believe them?

See? Proof is only when you want to accept it. Sure, there are hoaxes, lies, misinterpretations, etc., but go and tell the soldier that you don't believe there is a war in Afghanistan, go and tell that deep sea explorer that those fishes don't exist and they made that up, go and tell the speleologist (sp?) that there is nothing like he says in those caves.

Go and tell the people who have proof that those UFOs exist, that those aliens exist, that they're lying. Go and tell them!

reply to post by Gawdzilla


no, its just another way of saying, i cant be arsed finding one for you, just becuz you arent interested enough to check into it yourself.

why on earth would i be bothered? i dont mind what you believe - you are free to believe as you choose. and its not my responsibility or inclination to set out my 'evidence' for you on a plate so you can evaluate it one way or another. there are plenty of sites and articles out there. some sources you would find more reputable than others. i have no intention of doing someone else's research for them as i assume if they are interested enough they will spend a lot of time looking it over themselves.

Originally posted by rapunzel222
reply to post by Gawdzilla

 

no, its just another way of saying, i cant be arsed finding one for you, just becuz you arent interested enough to check into it yourself.

Okay, you fail. That's okay. Just don't assume I haven't already seen the information.

reply to post by rapunzel222


Gawdzilla will not be satisfied unless a UFO lands in his front lawn and opens the hatch so he can test drive it.

Good luck!

reply to post by platoslab


When that happens, I'll be satisfied. However, I'm not holding my breath. Despite claims that they're falling from the skies like snowflakes we still haven't seen one.

BTW, I have been authoritatively advised that there's no such thing as proof, so we can lock this thread and throw away the key, yes?

Originally posted by Gawdzilla
reply to post by platoslab

 

When that happens, I'll be satisfied. However, I'm not holding my breath. Despite claims that they're falling from the skies like snowflakes we still haven't seen one.

BTW, I have been authoritatively advised that there's no such thing as proof, so we can lock this thread and throw away the key, yes?

While it's true there's no proof of alien life there are confirmed (or proven) UFOs (which does not imply aliens, but does highly suggest intelligence of some sort). Yes, I know your opinion Gawdzilla. The '"better cases" are really just as bad and the "worse cases."' However I'm forced to conclude this is simply supposition as you haven't bothered to counter it and your argument to search Google only turns up Klass's debunking attempt.

This isn't hard to rebutt. Klass "believed the Lakenheath RATCC radar was malfunctioning because of a faulty MTI unit. However this would imply that the Bentwaters and Sculthorpe radars were also malfunctioning which is a bit far fetched when you factor in the air radar, ground and air visuals."

So after an analysis by noteworthy, credentialed scientists in their respective fields (physicists - McDonald / Thayer, astronomers - Hynek, rated "Unknown" by the Condon Committee, et al.) and a treatment before the AIAA it's fair to say this one has stood the test of time.

Proof as it were.

Of what? Who knows, but for it to follow in-trail behind a RAF Venom as it performed evasive maneuvers, for upwards to ten minutes, does suggest intelligence.

[edit on 13-4-2009 by Xtraeme]

reply to post by HarlieQuinn


Problem is, people DON'T do the research, they just accept ANY information as good evidence and hare off.

Until you start rationally examining the evidence and weeding out the nonsense, ufology is going to be a laughing stock. If you want respect, EARN it. When you've done that you might loose your tin-foil hat status.

Originally posted by hornum
Are the powers that be hiding and supressing these technologies? etc etc are all valid questions! But where is the proof? Sure you'll say theres high ranking officials, Pilots, Government officials and your average Joe out there saying that these things are real but you are purely taking their word for it!

But surely you already KNEW the powers that be are hiding and suppressing these technologies hornum?? Your dad actually designed and built the infamous black triangle UFO's!.......and what's this? we're just supposed to purely take YOUR word for it?
.....how about NO troll?

I don't understand how so many people can be so convinced of these things with so little evidence

as compared to the TOTAL lack of evidence in your story?, the same deeply flawed story that we're just supposed to take your word for?

Originally posted by hornum

Now I would also like to add I have researched this topic. For many years I have been a believer

But why? if you knew since you were a child that your dad designed and built black triangle UFOs capable of travelling and maneuvering at 7000 miles an hour then why would you assume ANY ufo was alien rather than just an advanced aircraft based on secret technology that YOU "know" exists?

Wonderful... here we go again. Our now weekly, obligatory "I need proof, there is none!" post.

What constitutes proof is up to you OP. If in your opinion, it means hard proof... such as an alien that meets the President on TV, or a UFO landing in front of some countries capital building, or a one hour video taped by a professional cameraman with close-ups of UFO maneuverability, well, you are out of luck.

However, if you take the approach that a rather -lot- of non-conclusive yet solid eyewitness testimony from experts, a lot of video and pictures, of varying quality, and other proof such as radar returns, and big events like the Phoenix sighting all add up to some level of proof, perhaps you can change your way of thinking.

Keep in mind that many cases in court.. MANY of them... determine the fate of human beings (including their life and death), by virtue of eyewitness testimony and mediocre video. It's good enough for law.. but a mountain of such evidence to make a case for UFOs does not cut it for you? Well, that's your call.

But obviously no "solid" proof exists. It's pointless to come here.. to a board where cases are discussed for that VERY REASON, and say "You don't have solid proof! I need it!" Yes.. we already know what proof is out there. You are hardly enlightening anyone here. And not to be rude, but why should we care what you, a single person, believes or doesn't believe? Your lack of belief isn't going to stagger the UFO community. This posts offer nothing, but seem to garner a lot of attention, for some reason.

reply to post by hornum


The problem is not that there is no proof , but that our understanding of the science involved with UFO is not advanced enough to prove thier presence. Remember that there are two factors working against general understanding of these objects and what they may mean for us as a species.
First our level of technology. We cannot even get a person out to the edge of our own solar system, and the furthest from home anyone has ever been is the freakin moon for crying out loud. Thats next door for a pack of sugar and back before tea time. So attempting to figure the machinations of a UFO is folly, we clearly dont know enough at this point to speculate without being spurious and guessing our silly collective butts off.
Second, obsfucation on the part of government officials and organisations which occurs surrounding all the best cases of UFO and all the most interesting reports of contact, abduction and so on. There are constant references to men in black in some of the oldest cases, and although such figures are rarely reported these days, the presence of these operatives throughout the history of the UFO phenomenon seems to suggest that there are significant resources being used to misdirect and confuse parties who are interested in the already mysterious subject . Bare in mind also , that at times in recent history military and intelligence concerns have kept secrets which NO ONE could have suspected at the time, and when they have been revealed to the world, those secrets have been both shocking and in some cases awe inspiring. The Atomic Bomb for instance which relatively few people knew about at the time of its invention. And quite right too! Who would have believed at the time, without evidence that such a weapon was to be built. Even today the destruction that such a device can cause is a matter of some disbelief, even after seeing the stock footage of hiroshima and nagasaki. The sheer scale of the devastation is difficult to comprehend fully, even after decades have passed.