The problem with Americans today and the world..., page 3
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reply posted on 7-4-2009 @ 05:24 PM by redhatty
Problems with the OP's thesis.

America is NOT a common law country, it is based on Statute and Constitutional law.

Since common law by centuries of legal tradition is inferior to statue law (laws passed by legislatures) and must comport to the Constitution (see Article VI) strict common law practices have slowly given way over the years. The traditions of common law remain imbedded in American jurisprudence. Common law traditions such as Habeas Corpus, jury trials, the right to confront one's accuser, the prohibition of crimes of the blood and many others have been codified into statute law.

This phenomenon leaves the field of common law an open playground for misguided and poorly educated individuals.

Past cases that refute what the OP is proposing:

1. United States v. Sloan, 939 F.2d 499, 501 (7th Cir. 1991)

2. United States v. Jagim, 978 F.2d 1032, 1036 (8th Cir. 1992)

3. United States v. Hilgeford, 7 F.3d 1340, 1342 (7th Cir. 1993)

4. United States v. Mundt, 29 F.3d 233 (6th Cir. 1994) ("federal zone" case)

5. Larue v. United States, 959 F.Supp. 957 (C.D.Ill. 1997).

6. Kimmel v. Burnet County Appraisal Dist., 835 S.W.2d 108, 109 (Tex.App. 1992)

7. McKinney v. Regan, 599 F.Supp. 126, 129 (M.D.La. 1984)

8. Lonsdale v. United States, 919 F.2d 1440, 1448 (10th Cir. 1990)

9. United States v. Kruger, 923 F.2d 587, 587-88 (8th Cir. 1991)

10. Clafin v. Houseman, 93 U.S. 130, 136 (1876)

Since the major pivot point of the thesis is destroyed by these cited cases, the rest of the thesis is null and void.


reply posted on 7-4-2009 @ 05:53 PM by realshanti
reply to post by dampnickers


The pot prattles on and on to the kettle...which indicates that folk are often(not always but often) the poster child for that which they others of...just an observation...


reply posted on 7-4-2009 @ 06:10 PM by poet1b
How about a deeper, darker reality closer to the truth.

Here in the U.S. our liberties, our security, and our economic success are not guaranteed. While we have managed to do some great things, our continued success depends on what we do today. We have to fight for our liberties just like everyone else.

Since the seventies, we have been slowly losing that battle. It might be easy to say that enough of the people have been fooled enough of the time for this to have happened, but it ain't that simple. Europeans aren't really doing any better, neither is Japan or S Korea. If you Europeans don't see the net closing in around you, then you are too busy paying attention to the U.S., instead of paying attention to what is going on in your own countries.

International economic competition is being used to squeeze the working class of the developed nations. Either we allow the IC's that are the CWO to lower the standards of all workers to slave labor, or we push to raise the standards of all workers. This will not happen as long as everyone keeps playing the blame game, and that includes the people of the third world nations as well. The first world can not solve the problems of the third world by absorbing ever growing numbers of immigrants from the third world. With the blame game, we are damned if we do and damned if we don't, and that goes for a majority of the people in all nations. Sooner or later we are going to have to make a choice.


reply posted on 8-4-2009 @ 03:39 AM by Reading
reply to post by Plasma applicator

still i suppose he is right, you end up in jail you dont really have to pay any taxes as such huh? english jails are quite nice compared to american ones, you even get a television access to a gym and a good freind base!

I suppose he will come back and say how i didnt read or research enough, but truth is ill let somebody else try it and not end up on the run like wesley snipes


reply posted on 11-4-2009 @ 08:55 PM by FritosBBQTwist
reply to post by dampnickers


You have a good idea - but I feel that it is...not all entirely true.

Yes, you have "proved" that the your country is also a "(representative) democracy" like "America" (or vice versa)...but that is not the problem.

In BOTH nations, there are very big upsets economically/politically.

I will use the bailouts. The number of Americans against it were far more than a simple majority. Yet they still went through with it.

The amount of tar the people can throw at the government is doing nothing. They "know" we want it back. But they are not giving the people their rightly deserved power back.

Why? Because it is not a true democracy. The problem with Americans today is that many actually think we are being represented fairly, which is far from the case.

The people speak out thinking their voices are being heard, but it is far from the truth. The only times politicians listen to us are when it does not affect their agenda.

The problem with America is that our leaders are not working for us. They will not listen to us, resign for us, whatever. They will only tax us, in a way not good for the country, but their own pockets.

There is a small chance of enough people standing up and going against some of these tyrants...because many people still have "just enough" to go on with their simple life. Only when a large enough portion of citizens lose what they have worked for all their life, is when something will happen.

In this scenario, the nice ones (the people) are also the ignorant ones.

We have given random trust to our leaders out of a blind, nationalistic sense. It is slowly crumbling.

Look at Obama. So called anti-bush administration angel...but when elected, we found out he is about just as bad, or worse.

Did you know that after the bailouts car companies got (GM for ex, the government is now wanting to SPEND MORE MONEY on them?

The people are fed up with it. Yet we feel helpless. The truth is, those of us living somewhat comfortably will never stand up.


reply posted on 11-4-2009 @ 09:59 PM by apacheman
Dumb, but amusing.

First off, if you really check into the history of the influences upon the Constitution, you'll find that it draws significant influence from the structure and customs of the Iroquois Confederacy, not just European structures...that influence is what helps make the US unique. en.wikipedia.org...

Second, although I admit to occasional justifiable arrogance, I defy you or anyone else, for that matter, to call me ignorant or unaware. I'm pretty well educated: formally, streetwise, outdoors, urban, what have you; being competent doesn't equate to being an egotist, and the US as a nation has multiple competencies, get over it.

Third, we are vastly larger, more diverse, and more complex than you can imagine if you haven't travelled through the country. All of Europe would fit handily into any number of our states, so please don't generalize about us, it just shows your ignorance of our culture.

Fourth, it is usually considered condescending and demeaning to talk to people in the manner you did: if we were face to face, I'm sure you would have better manners.

The "problem with Americans today" is not that we're arrogant egotists, it is that we've been far too patient with politicallly elite criminals. It is a mass and inertia problem. In a society of over 350 million people, political critical mass is difficult to achieve and dangerous when you do. So most Americans strive to make their immediate localities better and let those at the top have fun knifing each other; in the long run it worked ok. Not perfect, not necessarily good, but ok.

Unfortunately, we're kind of beyond that now and things must change. Despite what others may think of us, the average citizen of the US is a fairly pragmatic person and is nowhere near as violent as perceived. We're fairly slow to decide on a course of action, but once something sensible turns up, it is usually implemented swiftly. Right now, however, the danger is that something appealling but harmful will gain favor first.

But thanks for your input. Perhaps tomorrow I might tell you what's wrong with the Brits (I mean besides the fact they can't cook or make decent coffee sorry, couldn't resist).

edit: spelling, grammar

[edit on 11-4-2009 by apacheman]


reply posted on 14-4-2009 @ 06:10 PM by Edrick
reply to post by redhatty


Here is the problem with your rebuttle.

Amendment IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

(The laws of the constitution may not be written to take rights from the people)

Amendment X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

(Any power not specifically given to the federal government BY THE CONSTITUTION is the power of the states and peoples (common law) ALONE)


So, the government is not allowed to legislate anything not granted to it, and power CAN NOT be given to the government to take away rights.


-Edrick
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