Do you live within your means?

Originally posted by unityemissions
My parents are loaded. I'm not. They pay the bills and give me an allowance of $20 daily. More than enough for my needs. A couple meals a day, and a few bucks in gas. I simply won't allow myself to pay into a system that I know is incredibly corrupt.

No credit cards. No bank accounts. Just a couple of tickets that I practice civil disobedience towards. I don't speed and keep a low profile, so hopefully I can keep my arse out of jail.

I'm jealous! Parents that give you $20 per day, pay all your bills AND they managed to still teach you not to get any credit.

Totally different subject here but I meant to say, in my post above, that a couple of years ago I happened to mention to a friend that we'd just paid the last bit off our credit card and what a relief it was to finally know we didn't have any debts to pay.

Her answer astounded me!

She replied that she didn't have any debts. I reminded her that she'd just used her store card, minutes before the conversation, and she said, that's not debt though. We only have good credit, we don't have any debts!!??!!

It's frightening to think people think like that.

Mortgage...literally translated from latin means death pledge. So any of us who have mortgages are not living debt free...that is the lie, we are not home owners until the debt is paid. The bank owns our home. Just this month we sold our home and moved into a less expensive one....which feels wonderful.

Until we pay off our mortgage we are slaves to the bank

Originally posted by dodadoom
Thank you all for your posts!
And thank you for the hope! It is nice to see my fellow peeps on here "get it"!

Sweetpeanc, I know it sucks to do without all those things. But a larger world awaits! You are to be commended! Keep on, keepin on!
We have also been living within our means for a long time and it pays off.
Only now, we feel somewhat secure. That is a blessing nowdays and I sure
have a lot of jealous friends!

[edit on 2-4-2009 by dodadoom]

You know, I honestly don't miss much! If I want to see a movie, I wait 'til it comes out on DVD and rent it from the library. Free! I don't need that pretty cherry wood bedroom furniture. A mattress, box spring, and some Rubbermaids handle the job just fine. I actually like this simpler life. Wish I'd figured that out earlier! I get more enjoyment out of seeing that debt get lower than I would out of any fancy dinner.

We have a 6 month old daughter. We are going to do everything possible to prevent her from repeating our mistakes. Once she's a little older, she's going to work in the garden, learn to shop smart, and know the difference between "want" and "need." You do not need designer jeans, you need serviceable pants that keep your legs warm. You do not need a new car, you need some mode of transportation to get you to work or school.

I can only hope that other parents are doing the same.


[edit on 2-4-2009 by sweetpeanc]

Originally posted by 44soulslayer
OP I salute you for asking this question. It's the first time I've seen it on ATS.

For every 100 posters who whine about "the elite", "the rockefellers and rothschilds", "the evil bankers" etc... there is only one person such as you- who stops and thinks about other factors in the financial crisis.

As for your question, yep I live within my means. I'm lucky though... I physically cannot bring my self to take out credit- I know how it works and I would never take out any form of high interest credit other than a mortgage.

The world needs a paradigm shift. People need to start thinking that money is an absolute barrier. People must start living not only within their paycheck, but also start saving for a rainy day.

Thats the difference between the rich and the poor. That's the simple secret to becoming rich... don't spend money on unnecessary crap, and whatever money you save, invest it in money-generating assets.

Two men earnt $100 each. Man A went out and spent his money on a lavish meal, a clothes etc and was left with $20 of debt.
Man B spent within his means, spent frugally and saved profusely. He bought equities and bonds with his savings, which accumulated interest and earned him $20.

Imagine that pattern every day for the rest of their lives. Man A becomes the rich elite, enjoys his wealth. Man B becomes dejected, and starts attacking man A for his success, saying that he must have exploited someone or stolen something to get ahead.

yes man got ahead by srewing man b over the same thing thats going on in the market right now. wierd ha.

You are as always,very kind as well as brilliantly poetic!
I appreciate your compliments.

I like hearing that there are "others" among us who haven't fallen into the "trap" either because of circumstance or upbringing,it gives me hope that when the mess is finally sorted-out,some of us will still be productive and able to continue moving forward!
Fortunate for us because there really is an entire generation of parasitic and emotional lazy people out there who will be more than happy to live with their heads buried in the sand.
(((HUGS!)))

reply to post by Maya00a


She must mean that she pays off the principal on the credit card before it accrues any interest.

I do the same thing.

If you do that, then you're actually taking money away from the credit card companies because you get an extra month of interest in your savings account, and then pay off the credit card debt at no cost to yourself.

It's actually a very good fiscal play (but can spiral out of control if you don't control it well).

Originally posted by Missing Blue Sky
Mortgage...literally translated from latin means death pledge.

Very interesting, thank you for the prompt to look up the origins.

mortgage (n.) 1390, from O.Fr. morgage (13c.), mort gaige, literally means "dead pledge" (replaced in modern Fr. by hypothèque), from mort "dead" + gage "pledge;" so called because the deal dies either when the debt is paid or when payment fails. O.Fr. mort is from V.L. *mortus "dead," from Latin mortuus, pp. of mori "to die" (see mortal). The verb is first attested 1467.

O.Fr. - Old French, the French language as written and spoken c. 900-1400. More than 90 percent of it was from V.L., with a smattering of Celtic and Germanic, plus some M.L. learned terms.

V.L. - Vulgar Latin, the everyday speech of the Roman people, as opposed to literary Latin.

M.L. - Medieval Latin, Latin as written and spoken c.700-c.1500.

pp. - Past participle, a form of a verb that can be both a verb and an adjective, and which denotes action which has been completed. In Modern English, it commonly ends in -ed or -en. Thus, asked is the past participle of ask. French past participles commonly were adopted as finite verbs in Middle English.

source

[edit on 2-4-2009 by The All Seeing I]

reply to post by dodadoom


We have a very similar story. Our first house was a 40 y.o. fixer upper which we worked hard to transform. The children were young and we frequently shopped at yard sales and 2nd hand stores for clothing and household items & furniture but still managed to rack up debt for other items. Luckily the market was up when we relocated for a new job and we were able to sell at a reasonable price. Unfortunately that same market was up when we purchased a 80 y.o. home, made significant improvements and then when we needed to relocate 2 years later again, the market was down.

I completely sympathize with anyone who needs to sell when the market takes a drastic downturn. (What is difficult to fathom is that although the value of existing homes have dropped for the most part, the cost of building a new home remains steady).

We were lucky to have never purchased during a period of No Doc mortgage loans when unreasonable expectations for continued value growth (loan to value ratio) were as prevalent as the lack of need to substantiate income, coupled with unreasonable future interest rate resets.

I don't think this recent fiasco can be blamed entirely on borrowers. With the expectation that home values would continue to rise, the borrower could justify the purchase with the knowledge that the house could be sold to pay off the mortgage in the event of a job loss.

Only recently have we begun to live within our means, out of necessity and being free of out-of-state college tuition payments for our three. As long as we had dependent children living at home (or in college) we carried some consumer debt.

I don't know how young families are managing these days. Costs have not fallen in line with the negative growth for investments and remain steady or are increasing. Incomes for the top wage earners in a company are roughly 300% higher than the lower wage earners.

Your idea of installing solar panels to cut down on energy expenses is great advise! Not only does it cut costs in the long run, but also decreases the amount of power generated from coal. We are currently looking into that but the initial investment is substantial even with the state grants (if available) and federal tax deductions (2009 = full $10,000 deduction if I understand correctly; previously much less or capped at a percentage).

Hello everyone! Thanks for posting! Made it back.
Thanks for the ideas and for getting us all to think about it more!
I'll try to summarize and respond to everyone through this post!
Dont want to be rude as you all took time to read and respond!
I love the diversity of this site, btw!

Wildbob, 20 offers a week! Are you kidding me?
Thats not good at all, I'd start nippin that in the bud!
I would not be happy at all! You could get your identity stolen!
I know , its not fun, it happened to me!

Severed soul, you are doing way good also!
Sounds like the student loans should be paid off quick, but
they are probably low interest, so not too bad of deal, eh?
1000 seeds a payday? Thats great!
You know, I have heard of seeds being the currency of the future!
Neither here nor there, just a tidbit.

Maya00, thats terrible! Was it a storm? Thats the kind of stuff I worry about.
Seems like the storms are getting worse and the wind is blowing harder!
I send my best to you guys! I am sure we all on here do too!
Good luck in your situation! Should make everyone realize how lucky we are and how fast stuff can go wrong! Thanks for the wake up call!
God speed to recovery and prosperity!
The book is great btw! Two thumbs up and maybe even a hug!

Unityemissions, sounds like you got it figured out! Thanks for your honesty! Um, none of my business and you can tell me off here, but what do you do to earn the 20$? Thats not bad! Plus meals and room?!!
Are you in school? Thank you for your posts! Once again, dont anwser if you dont want to. No prob!

Really Crawgator? Good topic? Kewl! I thought it might fly!
If you read my initial post you read about my frustration.
I appologize for my bad attitude sometimes, but we the peeps
on this board that know whats going on are the minority.
More and more are waking up, unfortunately, the hard way,
and I feel bad for the ones in hardship.
Thanks for your post! Good stuff!
I love the sayings! It IS TRUE freedom! HA! Great point!!!

44soulslayer, thank you and you hit a soft spot and consider yourself
as having just found a friend! As well as everyone that posts on this
thread, if you want my friendship, Im there! I appreciate it alot!
Thank you for the kind words and support! I mean it!
I have been trying to think of a thread such as this one.
I see alot of ideas get used on threads, and I figured this one would too
because I mentioned it in a couple other threads.
I searched and couldnt find anything like it! I would just like to see us
get out of this hole we're in,and become a better society for it.
Maybe we needed to go through this to learn a lesson? Ouch.
You know what they say, adversity makes us stronger!
That is a perfect story about the two men! My Dad taught me about
borrowin' money but being a kid and stubborn I thought I could have it all!
I always had a list of stuff I thought I needed. The longer time went on,
the more I was happier with less and treated what I had better.
When I had to work for it, it changed my whole attitude!
I consider myself fairly content, and that is saying something nowdays!
Thank you for your reply to maya also, I was wondering if it was costing
interest on a store card like that. Way to go! Good tip!

Maya, thats crazy about your friend with the store card!

Missing blue sky, really, wow I didnt know that!
I knew that about the bank owning the home though!
All the interest gets paid to the bank first, THEN it starts paying on the principle! Wow, alot of peeps prolly dont know stuff like that!
My mom worked in real estate and she taught me alot!
Good stuff! Thanks for your post!!!

Sweetpeanc, thank you for your reply! Sounds like you are content and
at peace! I wish you continued peace conentment and congrats with the little one! Hats off to you and you have my utmost admiration and support!
More great points!!!

Irishchic, I think I'm gushing now! I actually have been told I could be a writer. Leave it to you to notice! I write music but I am a poor poet!
I will take any compliment I can get though, and I appreciate every word! Consider yourself as having found a friend also!
Hugs from up north! (I will have cold hands so be warned!)

Elfie, thank you for posting that! I am sure someone needs to hear it!
You are right about it took several different factors to create this mess!
I think of the housing bubble that was bound to crash just like the tech
bubble or every other bubble we've had! History repeats itself and all that!
I feel for people that cant sell their home. We got lucky when we sold the
fixer upper in 6 months! That was a long time to make happen and a whole lotta work, but we made it and now have aplace in the country
with chickens and everything!
I also dont know how the families with payments and kids do it!
The guys I work with are all beyond broke! Except the bosses!
The pays not good here. But its cheap to live and thats good nowdays!
The solar panels were a project I completed last fall.
I have been thinking about starting a thread and talk about my system
but I kinda already described it here:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
Well, I'm gonna call that good. Thank you again for your posts, ideas,
stories, jokes, anecdotes and support! dodydoom out~!

P.S. Fooled ya all with the scary name didn't I?
Peace, happiness and prosperity to you all!

Here is my story:

6 years ago I was living above my means and realized it. Kicked started my business(investment advisor) and 3 years ago was living below my means and paid off much of the debt incurred in the previous 3 years and also managed to save a bit. Over the last 2 years my business has suffered greatly due to the market declines and as such I am currently living above my means though I do everything I can not to spend money. Have blown through my savings at this point as well. Living within my means at this point means not paying all my obligations, although I have yet to miss a payment. This quarters fees though just won't float the boat, so stiffing creditors is becoming a reality.

The point is, I was the American dream, who used credit to build a decent business and to reverse past indescretions, only to have it evaporate through no direct fault of my own(clients insisted on staying in equities). I had every reason to take on obligations that at the time I could easily meet, but can no longer fully meet. Credit lines have been cut to the amount owed and house is upside down, even though we actually downgraded our home in 2004. Eventually though things will recover and I will be able to live below my means again, although the current lack of credit availability makes it much harder to get back on that path without negative consequences.

To generalize that people who can't make ends meet are irresponsible in the whole is a pretty poor generalization. Many of us want a piece of the dream and were having it until the rug got pulled out from under our feet. If the tunnell is 18 feet tall and you buy a a 6 foot car, is it your fault that you can noloner get around because they have now reduced the tunnell to 3 feet tall?

reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity

Great point and thanks for the story! I think our american dream is
slowly turning into a nightmare! Thanks for setting me straight about
generalizing and I appologize if it seems like I did. It sounds like you
got your stuff together just in time! Way to go! My hats off to you also!
Dont worry my dream was also stolen by the greed of a few!
All we can do is keep trying I guess. OH and buy more beans!
As long as we take SOME responsibilty for our situation!
Thats all I ask. I am surprised that this thread even got one post!!
You are all to be commended for speaking up and doing what you can
to be self sufficient or at least have the desire to get out of crushing debt!
I applaud you all and thank you for the hope, however slim it may seem to be!
Like I say, we vote em in, what do we expect? Its too much to give someone unlimited power and expect it not to be used.

I live within my means, but I have found ways to make cash money on the side, so I occasionally have a large surplus to spend as I wish.

Seriously, in these times I say spend what you can while you can before trillions in government spending and debt devalue the dollar and bankrupt the country.

Spend like there is no tomorrow, your governments are.

reply to post by Walkswithfish

So,...I guess your answer is no you don't! Wait, I'm kidding with U!
I see your point and actually agree with you! Just don't tell anyone or they will think I'm all doom and gloom and stuff! , !
I just got done watching Peter Schiff on another thread and he explains it very well and indeed has been one of the few who predicted this "contraction of society" we are now facing.
We built an unsustainable future built on expectations that the worlds economies would always grow!

Like I say, I spend money on things for the future so its a win, win!
This is a tough one for me and I am not happy our money is headed down!
Dang me and my big mouth! Now I have to face my fear and talk about it in front of God and everyone! Dang it!
On one hand I want to save in case I lost my job or something,
but on the other I expect hyperinflation at some point.
Either way, dont have a ton of it too worry about!
The 401 is woefully inadequate and I dont expect I'll ever get it back.
SSI will be nonexistent pretty soon so we wont be able to count on that either!
Would really only take a few natural disasters or some more wars and
we would implode pretty fast regardless of personal feelings about it.

I say; Prepare, dont be scared!
P.S. The panels work great, I am impressed! And I guess they last forever!
I bought an old used one to run an irrigation system with and it even works great! Puts out nice dependable power!
But the sun helps out a little too!
Anyone who tells you solar aint the answer is lying and probably works
for an oil company like that lady on TV with the slick commercials showing
constantly! You realize they spend more on those stupid commercials,
telling us to believe more drilling is the best answer, than they do actually researching alternative energies! Wow, what a shocker!
Oh well oils cheap, we'll play along!
Comes back to what do you drive? Do you live within your means
or are you still in love with the payment shock inducing gas guzzler?
Fess up! I gave it up for a miserly toyota! (used)


[edit on 2-4-2009 by dodadoom]

Yes, I live within my means. I drive my Lexus that I wanted for many years and I will drive it until I simply can't. If I can purchase another Lexus to replace this one I will; if not, I will remember these days fondly.

I smoke Salems. I will smoke my freaking Salems as long as I can afford them or until I decide to quit, or until I need oxygen to stay alive... and I really don't know if I'd choose to live or not... and it IS my choice.

I do NOT like the idea of the prison planet that we now live in. It ticks me off greatly.

Good luck to you young folks who think this situation is cool; is is not.

Thanks for the link to your solar and wind generated set up. It sounds like you are facing the current situation head on, and in fact, you are ahead of the curve. Would love to hear more about it if you want to discuss it.

reply to post by Seeker Mom

Thank you Seekermom! What you are saying is enjoy life, basically?
It ticks me off too and I also feel we do not realize how ugly things could get! I wont go into detail here but its not hard to see times are a changin'!
I hope the kids realize it wouldn't be like a video game! It would be GAME OVER!

If you found something that works for you, congrats!
And if its paid off, why get rid of it? Nickel and dime
is better than hundreds and hundreds! If you find a good,dependable,comfortable,economical(well I guess we can't have it all)
and safe outfit by all means keep it!
I am really happy with my little pickup. All I've had to do is the usual
maintenence on it and it gets great mpg's!
I smoked for many years and finally had to quit! Had too to breath.
Ends up I like breathing better anyway! Good luck quiting if it is your desire too. If you do, know you have my support! Peace to U!
Thanks for you post!
P.S. Man I wish I could type better, this is taking forever!

reply to post by elfie
Thanks for your interest! It is a wise point you bring up here also! Living within your means, means being realistic about your consumption! Trying to create your own abundant power means having to make choices. Obviously we cant live like cavemen but we can do small things that help US save money! Just the savings I obtained switching the lights over to CFL's, paid for itself in a couple months! After that I was sold!
Hey if it puts money in my pocket I'm all for it!It is so much cheaper to save power instead of make it. What I mean by that is once you try to make cheap power you realize theres no such thing. It costs someone somewhere for you to have that power. And its expensive! But its like buying house instead of renting! You pocket the equity!
You start thinking about whats REALLY important to you! And thats good to do in many instances! IMO
If you have some specific questions thats fine, but we should be carefull not to venture off topic! I am still considering posting my experience with it all, just not right now. You can always u2u me if you are getting a system together and need some amateur advice!

Make speed limit 45, I hear ya! That is way good and you should be proud!
Well Im headin to bed everyone, I'm beat. Been a long week. C ya tomorrow! Take care and peace to you all!


[edit on 3-4-2009 by dodadoom]

I have never bought anything on credit in my life. I have no sympathy for these idiots who got themselves into debt.

I for one live within my means. I have zero debt and I dont even have a single credit card. I only buy something if I have the cash. In my mind if I need plastic to pay for it I dont really need it. I dont use banks really, I have a prepaid credit card that I load when I need to use a debit card like when I travel or pay a bill online otherwise I just keep cash hidden. I worked for a bank and I hated how they always messed up peoples account and the customer was always the one who paid even when it was the banks fault. Heck I worked there and they use to mess up my account many times, so I no longer use banks. I dont trust them!

reply to post by dodadoom


Thankyou for this thread Dodadoom

I just can't fathom why so many are enraged at having to finally cough-up for their credit-lifestyle now that the merry-go-round has come to a grinding halt.

Its not the financiers who are to blame for the mess, it's the greedy consumers who lived beyond their means, and now they take to the streets demanding that someone, anyone, else be held accountable for their debts now being called in for repayment