I agree with Amuk there is some validity in your post Ninjorb, however.. The one factor I noticed that was missing and I will admit is probably the kicker when it comes to defining 'freedom' or specific freedoms, is when you consider how to prevent one person's freedom from interfering with another's freedom.
There are issues of safety, privacy, and mass validity.
It is because of this very fine line that subtle actions can either change into something 'better' or as you had illustrated something worse... I will agree that perception and awareness must be factored in to these kinds of things as well.

I'd have to say that America WAS the the nation that allowed it's population the greatest amount of freedom. A hell of a lot more than NZ, BUT that was before the patriot act 1 and 2.

And if you've sold milk from a cow, built a room onto your house or done any of those things mentioned in that article, you've broken the law. They're not going to come after you Waco style or anything like that, but you HAVE broken the law. We all do it, probably several times a day.

How do you keep one person's freedom from infringing on anothers? Simple, it's called common courtesy, something everyone used to be well schooled in, but that has, alas, gone the way of good music in modern 'society'.

Just because a law exists on the books doesn't mean you've lost freedom. If it isn't enforced or enforceable, it is meaningless. That's one of the reasons why de-funding the government is so necessary. The fewer resources they have the fewer laws they can enforce. They will have to focus on the REAL lawbreakers. The best single thing for America as a whole is for lawmakers to cut taxes IMHO. The only caveat is that during times of war special measures should be taken to ensure the People's right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. President Bush, like Reagan understands this, Gob bless him. 4 MORE YEARS!

: )


Variable

That's the most moronic thing I've ever heard. Have you READ the Patriot acts? You can be called a terrorist for investigating Dick Cheeny's connections to Haliburton now. Try not paying your taxes and see what happens. Don't you think that the fact that they are taking the time and effort to write these laws MEANS something? Is your head really buried that deep in the sand?

I have a good faith in the intelligence of the American public, by and large, please don't sully it for me by closing your eyes, waving your little American flag and repeating mantra like - There's no place like home, There's no place like home.

And if you've sold milk from a cow, built a room onto your house or done any of those things mentioned in that article, you've broken the law. They're not going to come after you Waco style or anything like that, but you HAVE broken the law. We all do it, probably several times a day.

Bull#


If you live outside the city limits you can do ALL ythese things legally here and most even if you ARE inside the city limits it just depends on where you live

Originally posted by Variable
Just because a law exists on the books doesn't mean you've lost freedom. If it isn't enforced or enforceable, it is meaningless. That's one of the reasons why de-funding the government is so necessary. The fewer resources they have the fewer laws they can enforce. They will have to focus on the REAL lawbreakers. The best single thing for America as a whole is for lawmakers to cut taxes IMHO. The only caveat is that during times of war special measures should be taken to ensure the People's right to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. President Bush, like Reagan understands this, Gob bless him. 4 MORE YEARS!

: )


Variable

Again bull#

If the law is on the book\s it CAN be enforced and probebly will

If bush is such a believer in personal freedom he would not back crap liker the PA 1&2

Which part of the new law gives you the most concern? Is something happening now no one is aware of or are the chicken little's screaming about what they read into something. Which passage is the tell tale sign of impending doom to the freedom of the people. Convince me.

Originally posted by Variable
Which part of the new law gives you the most concern? Is something happening now no one is aware of or are the chicken little's screaming about what they read into something. Which passage is the tell tale sign of impending doom to the freedom of the people. Convince me.

Jailing people without trials or lawyers, the fact that they can snoop into what books you read, the fact that the laws are ALREADY being used against citizans and several more.

Even if your hero bush is just too damn honest to use it against honest people WHAT is to keep the demon democrats from doing it when they get in power?

Or maybe all other parties should be outlawed just be safe