Land of the Free?

I just wondered after hearing everyone state how America is not the most free country on earth if the would tell me this........

Which one is?

Back it up with some facts too not just BS.

Freedom of religion
Freedom of speach
Freedom to own guns to protect your self
Freedom to protest the government

About the only thing that we dont have is freedom from the oppressive drug laws

How much longer we keep these freedoms is another matter

To be honest, i can't think of one of the top of my head. Allow me to do some research and i might come up with one

Originally posted by infinite
To be honest, i can't think of one of the top of my head. Allow me to do some research and i might come up with one

Me neither

I hear a lot of people talking # but none of them come up with another country. This country is FAR from perfect but still I can think of no other place freer

Originally posted by Amuk
I just wondered after hearing everyone state how America is not the most free country on earth if the would tell me this........

Which one is?

Back it up with some facts too not just BS.

Freedom of religion
Freedom of speach
Freedom to own guns to protect your self
Freedom to protest the government

About the only thing that we dont have is freedom from the oppressive drug laws

How much longer we keep these freedoms is another matter

Yes. Technically we do have those things. But I think that most of us also get the silent message that goes along with it whenever we try to exercise them in the real world.

That is, yes, you can have these freedoms. On paper. Out there is another story. We can make you mighty uncomfortable if you try to exercise them. So in a nutshell I think a lot of it is basically lip service and nothing more.

You want a country that seems just as free ?

Well, I don't have a bunch of facts or figures but I can give you my personal opinion. I would have to say the UK. Except for the gun part they have pretty much everything else. I'm against guns anyway, so that bit doesn't matter to me.

But on the whole, while I was there I felt a whole heck of a lot freer and unconstrained. It was the vibe of the people and the place itself. I just felt a lot freer to say what I think, and the British seemed to feel the same way. A LOT less uptight then my American counterparts.

Land of the free, LoL, They took it from the indians, so it was free.

Land of the fee and home of the payed!

Yes. Technically we do have those things. But I think that most of us also get the silent message that goes along with it whenever we try to exercise them in the real world.

I have NEVER been stopped from saying what I thought or going to any church I wanted or no church for that matter, I bitch about the government ALL the time and have never felt in the least threatined for my veiws.

As for owning guns that and free speach are the foundation of ANY free socity if you dont have both thqan I dont see how you can even consider yourself free


Well come on people lets hear about all these other places where you are TRULY free

Originally posted by Amuk
Well come on people lets hear about all these other places where you are TRULY free

Are you attempting to insinuate that America is 'TRULY' free simply on the basis that it is more free then many other countries?

Originally posted by Jonna

Originally posted by Amuk
Well come on people lets hear about all these other places where you are TRULY free

Are you attempting to insinuate that America is 'TRULY' free simply on the basis that it is more free then many other countries?

Not at all, as a matter of fact we have a long way to go before I would call us TRULY free.


What I am asking for is a country that is MORE FREE.

So far no takers

Once you have a government in place, elected or otherwise, real freedom goes out the door. The greedy now have a focal point to exert their position on the masses. That being said, is there a place freer than Amer? I don't know.

Originally posted by intrepid
Once you have a government in place, elected or otherwise, real freedom goes out the door. The greedy now have a focal point to exert their position on the masses. That being said, is there a place freer than Amer? I don't know.

Well said! I whole heartedly agree.

A lot of people claim other countries are freer but I dont hear any proof.

Intrepid in Canada you have laxer drug laws but tighter controls on speach and guns too, right?

The netherlands might have a shot how are there gun laws or speach laws?



For me any country that claimed to be really free would have freedom of......

Speach
Religion
Assembly
Self deffense (guns)
property ownership
movement
drug laws (none)
sexual choice (adults)


Did I leave anything out?

We have most of these

Originally posted by Jonna

Originally posted by intrepid
Once you have a government in place, elected or otherwise, real freedom goes out the door. The greedy now have a focal point to exert their position on the masses. That being said, is there a place freer than Amer? I don't know.

Well said! I whole heartedly agree.

But the vote gives us a focal point to exert OUR position too

But the vote gives us a focal point to exert OUR position too

OK, what was the last administration, in the States, that didn't screw the people over in favour of big business?

Originally posted by intrepid
But the vote gives us a focal point to exert OUR position too

OK, what was the last administration, in the States, that didn't screw the people over in favour of big business?

Not a damn one that I can think of

Till we start voting these crooked idiots out of office they will keep it up too

But we do have other choices, they are not being shot in the street like some other places

Well, this discussion is focused on things you are free to do, whereas freedom is a lot more complicated than that.

Free from poverty is a great example. Can you really say that the U.S is free from poverty? If not, Americans are not free from the pressures of having to aquire money.

You have the right to bear arms, but this means that you run the risk of being gunned down for no apparent reason. If no guns were allowed you would be free from this risk (at least in theory).

In conclusion, the U.S is one of the most liberal ( not in the political sense) countries in the world when it comes to a citizen�s rights, but freedom is also a matter of perspective. Therefore I have to say it is not. Sweden, for example, is a country virtually free from poverty, guns and crime in general. In Sweden you have the right to say what you want, practice whatever religion you choose and so on which is why my vote goes to northern Europe.

Originally posted by intrepid
Once you have a government in place, elected or otherwise, real freedom goes out the door. The greedy now have a focal point to exert their position on the masses.

Hell yeah intrepid that was awesome. Freer countries?

New Zealand:
No handguns but rifles and shotguns are permitted.
Freedom to refuse medical treatment.
Freedom to seach, maintain and posess any and all information, no exceptions.
If you come to visit and don't want to leave, no one will force you to.
Bill of Rights Act

Besides this, the punishment for non violent crimes are minimal and there is no death penalty. Due to the political system there are scores of parties to vote for so people are encouraged to vote for who represents them best. There is no overregulation of stupid things and privately rules are minimal. I could go on and on but I think you get the point.

Other western countries are more free (legally as well as personally):
Canada
Australia
Argentina
Switzerland
Norway
Spain
UK
Kazakhstan
Italy
Monaco

And probably a hundred or so developing countries that are so lawless (by enforecement) that you can do what you want so long as you don't get caught (which is obviously hard). Beautifully Antiphonic.

[Edited on 4-21-2004 by insite]

From Zack D.
What!? The land of the FREE?!
Whoever told you that is your enemy!

Seems like we dont have a monopoly on freedom after all. If i am told i am free does that make it so?
Im only as 'free' as they let me be.
Freedom, in its purest form, comes from God and his laws.
Mans laws attempt to limit the freedom of individuals for the 'betterment of society'.

Free from poverty is a great example. Can you really say that the U.S is free from poverty? If not, Americans are not free from the pressures of having to aquire money.

This is a crock. You have the freedom to make a living if you can. No one is free from working nor should they be. You should have the right to TRY to aquire wealth not the right to HAVE it.

I am talking about your personal rights and freedoms not some pie in the sky BS. By that reasoning if you are gaurenteed a loaf of bread but shot if you speak up you are still free.

As for Sweeden you might have me there but I would have to see a side by side comparision of ther laws. What about gun laws? Drug laws? Property rights?

this isnt the land of the free because i for ONE and only one believe marijuana should be legalized. but they still rather go and find pounds of it and call it ''theirs'' just like if theyve invented it. ROFL.