Land of the Free?

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posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 06:21 PM
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Insite

New Zealand might be in the running along with Sweden and the Netherlands but again I would have to see a comparison of the laws.

No handguns is a big strike and other than the Imagration thing you have not shown me ANY freedom they have that we dont.

As for the others Canada I know has laws about what you can and cannot say which is a BIG strike in my book the rest I am unsure of, just what makes them freer than us?




posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 06:23 PM
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Tit for tat really. We have gun laws, we also have free health care. BUT POLITICAL CORRECTNESS MUST GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by aware

From Zack D.
What!? The land of the FREE?!
Whoever told you that is your enemy!

Seems like we dont have a monopoly on freedom after all. If i am told i am free does that make it so?
Im only as 'free' as they let me be.
Freedom, in its purest form, comes from God and his laws.
Mans laws attempt to limit the freedom of individuals for the 'betterment of society'.




You didnt answer the question where are you freer? And dont tell me about God freeing people most countries dont stone kids for disobeying or women for adultry so screw gods laws



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 06:27 PM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Tit for tat really. We have gun laws, we also have free health care. BUT POLITICAL CORRECTNESS MUST GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



You live there.......How bad are the speach laws really?

To me this and the gun laws would knock you out of ANY list of free countrys



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 06:34 PM
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You live there.......How bad are the speach laws really?

To me this and the gun laws would knock you out of ANY list of free countrys

Not bad if you aren't a politician, newsperson things like that. I could say anything I wanted to but if it makes the papers it would be editted.

As for the gun laws, they're not that strict either. I own a rifle, getting handguns though, that's a different matter.



posted on Apr, 21 2004 @ 08:56 PM
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Not bad if you aren't a politician, newsperson things like that. I could say anything I wanted to but if it makes the papers it would be editted.



Thats scary


As I have said before if you cant speak your mind or defend yourself WTF is left?


I am not putting down Canada, Australia or UK we are brother countries, minor vairations on the same idea at worst, but I hardly see how they are freer than us.

As for the other countries others mentioned I have yet to hear HOW they are freer. I can make up a list with NOTHING to back it up.

I admire those countries lax or barely enforced drug laws but that is far down the list when compared toi freedom of speach and self defense



posted on Apr, 22 2004 @ 05:30 AM
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Amuk

Did you know that unemployment rates are calculated as a share of the total available workforce. The definition of workforce is those who actively are looking for work, if not already working. This means that the share of 5% unemployed is really much larger. Still, there aren't enough jobs to go around. So, the people who cannot find jobs because of recessions should starve? It's their problem, right? In Sweden, people don't have to leave their homes and live in cardboard boxes because they are laid off. This is what I mean with freedom from poverty. Not the kind of thing you were talking about. In the U.S you have around 10% of the total population defined as poor. Is that because they are lazy or because they are free?



posted on Apr, 22 2004 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by yergen
Amuk

Did you know that unemployment rates are calculated as a share of the total available workforce. The definition of workforce is those who actively are looking for work, if not already working. This means that the share of 5% unemployed is really much larger. Still, there aren't enough jobs to go around. So, the people who cannot find jobs because of recessions should starve? It's their problem, right? In Sweden, people don't have to leave their homes and live in cardboard boxes because they are laid off. This is what I mean with freedom from poverty. Not the kind of thing you were talking about. In the U.S you have around 10% of the total population defined as poor. Is that because they are lazy or because they are free?



I have NEVER had a problem with finding a job. Sometimes I had to take jobs that most wouldnt accept but I had work to support my family. I have been classified as poor ALL my life and I have a big screen TV, air condishing, hi speed internet, a nice car, three bedroom house with a TV in every room, washer/dryer, and just refurnished the place. Being poor in America does not have to mean starving in the streets as much as not having a summer home


Most of the REALLY poor and/or homeless in America are mentally ill and I will be the first to say our care of them is a discrace, but they make up a small fraction of the "poor" that you speak of. Those that will not take a job because it is beneath them can live in a cardboard box as far as I am concerened.


What I am talking about is the freedom to DO THINGS. The government is not a free mans babysitter, I would never trade freedom for securty, and those that do deserve the chains they will wind up wearing.



posted on Apr, 22 2004 @ 09:10 PM
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In the freedom of the press ranking, the United States ranks as nr 17...

news.bbc.co.uk...



posted on Apr, 22 2004 @ 09:41 PM
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Originally posted by Amuk
What I am talking about is the freedom to DO THINGS.


This is what I'm talking about too. You can't just look at a nations constitution or laws to see what nation is more free. There are far too many variables involved with determining how free a person feels as well as how they must be treated under the law. When I say New Zealand is more free than the United States, I mean that you don't have all these regulations (besides environmental) restricting your ability to live your life how you would like to.

I remember something about how civil lawsuits are severely frowned upon let alone legal. This means you don't have so many waivers to sign - that's freedom. Here in America you can be restricted from doing just about anything for fear of a pending lawsuit. People are more prepared to provide lenience to each other. For example I could walk through kilometers of farmland without fear of being caught tresspassing or being shot at. The list goes on Amuk. I lived in the place until I was thirteen, about the crescendo age when you push the limits and see just how far you can go. I've lived here since 2000 and there is a dramatic difference between the prevalence of the most basic of freedoms.

Just because I can't own a handgun, the US is equally as free? I could saw a few inches off my shotgun and have the same effect. I wish there were some more kiwi's here to back me up but I'm afraid that no one here has been as exposed to the dramatic changes in freedom as I have. That lawsuit thing is a huge factor.



posted on Apr, 22 2004 @ 10:25 PM
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www.ios.org...


Heres a site that disagrees acording to it you can be jailed for critizing tribel leaders if I understand correctly

I have to go now but this is interesting insite I would like to hear more. The fact that you cant own a handgun is not the only factor to consider I admit but to me at least it must be a factor

[Edited on 22-4-2004 by Amuk]



posted on Apr, 22 2004 @ 10:57 PM
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The site itself gave New Zealand the gold medal, US silver. Four years in a row until 2001 NZ took the gold. Those letters you pointed out were just letters to the editor that came from people (obviously of European decent) who had qualms with the Treaty of Waitangi. Excuse the NZ government for trying to help the indingenous people of the country with regaining the rights they were entitled to under the "obscured and ambiguous" treaty written in 1840. Wow, if these people have problems with legislation written in 1840 I would probably be forced to beat their asses if they wanted to debate the legitimacy of the US Constitution of 1776.

If you read the letter under the one you refer to, an economist from the US is quick to dismiss their issues. While there are many burdensome reg's, comparable stupid rules can be found elsewhere. Did you know it's illegal for a business in Calgary, Canada to operate without a place to tie up your horse outside? This one caught my eye: "you can't cut down a tree without permission." Lol, wow what an issue. They honestly believe the police would haul them away for this? They neglected to mention that NZ is home to a variety of native species and it is these that are protected. At one time New Zealand was completely covered in forest. Now look at it. It's one big farm with a few mountains.

I also noticed that the two groups posting negative opinions about New Zealand were related by title. Possibly they concocted a scheme to spam this guy with their own personal rhetoric. My opinion? The negative opinions were held by racist conservatives who have never lived anywhere else to be able to compare. I know judging people is wrong, but thats the feeling I got knowing a thing or two about the issues they bring up.

Lastly, New Zealand was ranked according to some credible indexes. Personal opinions of some "objectivists" don't really hold up to people who put hours in studying the bylaws of every nation on the planet.

Great link though Amuk, I'm still going to have to say that New Zealand is the most free nation. That site agrees with me although it hasn't been updated since a year or two after I left.

[Edited on 4-22-2004 by insite]



posted on Apr, 23 2004 @ 12:41 AM
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Originally posted by intrepid
Tit for tat really. We have gun laws, we also have free health care. BUT POLITICAL CORRECTNESS MUST GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!




If I may chime in, our health care isn't "free".......
it's paid by our overwhelming tax system, that taxes the hell out of us......I poo poo on our 15% tax...

I feel bad for P.E.I....They have three taxes...

Now i've run into food tax and liqour tax along with pst and gst.......how's that for free??

our health is not free... It costs us a # load through higher taxes...



I think thats what john kerry wants for u.s .........free health care for all and higher taxes.....I wonder how that will go w/ Americans...



posted on Apr, 23 2004 @ 12:44 AM
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Also Canada is limited to what they say.........


For example, on the airwaves, you can say bitch but not retard.......


funny how words have such an impact on our freedoms.

funny how government puts limitations on our freedoms.
how did this ever happen anyway??




posted on Apr, 23 2004 @ 01:03 AM
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Originally posted by Amuk

Originally posted by yergen
Amuk

Did you know that unemployment rates are calculated as a share of the total available workforce. The definition of workforce is those who actively are looking for work, if not already working. This means that the share of 5% unemployed is really much larger. Still, there aren't enough jobs to go around. So, the people who cannot find jobs because of recessions should starve? It's their problem, right? In Sweden, people don't have to leave their homes and live in cardboard boxes because they are laid off. This is what I mean with freedom from poverty. Not the kind of thing you were talking about. In the U.S you have around 10% of the total population defined as poor. Is that because they are lazy or because they are free?



I have NEVER had a problem with finding a job. Sometimes I had to take jobs that most wouldnt accept but I had work to support my family. I have been classified as poor ALL my life and I have a big screen TV, air condishing, hi speed internet, a nice car, three bedroom house with a TV in every room, washer/dryer, and just refurnished the place. Being poor in America does not have to mean starving in the streets as much as not having a summer home


Most of the REALLY poor and/or homeless in America are mentally ill and I will be the first to say our care of them is a discrace, but they make up a small fraction of the "poor" that you speak of. Those that will not take a job because it is beneath them can live in a cardboard box as far as I am concerened.


What I am talking about is the freedom to DO THINGS. The government is not a free mans babysitter, I would never trade freedom for securty, and those that do deserve the chains they will wind up wearing.


I totally agree with Vergen. Good points, Dude.

You can't start a post asking which country is the freest without considering ALL kinds of "freedoms". It seems to me that you asked the question in a general manner which everybody answered, but when they gave you their honest answers and you didn't like them, you tried to change the "rules" of the game.

Sorry, Amuk. But I put homelessness and poverty and the unemployment rate WAY above my own personal rights to own a gun. That's WAY at the bottom of my priority list, Dude.

You need to consider that just because you have always been able to get a job, everybody else might not because everybody else isn't YOU.

I think that when you see lines and lines of people applying for minimum wage jobs (just after 9/11, I had to compete with over 200 applicants for a minimum wage convenience store job), that it's totally unfair, not to mention CRUEL to sit there in your own comfy little set-up and call them "lazy" etc etc. This is Bull#. People WANT to have jobs and feed their families and live the good life. There is no way you can convince me that the homeless want to be exactly where they are. That's exactly the kind of conservative/republican bull# my mother spouts and I get so tired of hearing it mostly because it is so insensitive and unempathetic.

If this country was truly free their would jobs for EVERYONE that wanted one. You can't tell people they have to pay to EAT and not provide for them a job.

And I tell you this. It's the corporations to blame mostly for hard times like these when people can't get jobs. Why, you ask ? Because in hard times when so many are looking for work, corporations know they can be picky, choosy bastards and pretty much demand your firstborn before they hire you.

Don't blame the people. Blame the #ing corporations.



posted on Apr, 23 2004 @ 01:07 AM
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By the way, True Lies, we are taxed to death too. The only difference is that you guys actually GET something out of it. Health care for all.

The only thing we get is more military weapons and expensive pentagon toilet seats.

Oh...and tax cuts for the rich.



posted on Apr, 23 2004 @ 01:31 AM
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well i've slept rough for 3 monthes on the streets of london and i'd like to say it ain't pleasant .
America ain't perfect but at least they play a straight game out here
best paid job i had in london was 12$... first job here 15$ ... you americans that get confused about europe i'm telling you now , London is a hole , crap wages [if you get to work ] crap working conditions , crap housing , crap attitude .

BE THANKFULL . America is still great and it's the only place i know that will pay me a decent wage for my labour .
ps [aware ] tell me who is standing between me and my ability to earn my wage and i'll show you patriotism .



posted on Apr, 23 2004 @ 02:32 AM
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In regards to all of those Australia has them... the difference is our gun laws are alot stricter than yours (which is a good thing) but we can still own them for our defence. I dont understand why you guys in the states think being able to own guns is such a big deal. In my opinion you guys have alot less and you use this lack of gun laws as a trade off... In aus we can have guns, the difference is there is a limit to the power of the gun and also records are kept for more than 90 days in regards to who bought what gun. This gives us the freedom to have whoever shot us tracked down a persecuted from the gun records...

EXTRAS FOR AUSTRALIA

-the freedom to read what you like at a library or check out any books without federal police/asio being abel to find out.

-the freedom to drink once you are a legal adult (18) instead of having to wait 3 years (21). I feel if your mature enough to vote your mature enough to drink... not that it matters if your going to drink you would've done it by the time your legal...

thats off the top of my head i'm sure theres more but i'm not really looking. but already we're two up on you...

[Edited on 23-4-2004 by specialasianX]



posted on Apr, 23 2004 @ 02:30 PM
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land of the free!? yeah right they wont stop taking our maryjane! bas***** just make money off of it instead of giving us real freedom of choice!!



posted on Apr, 23 2004 @ 04:12 PM
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With the exception of Austrailia and Antartica I have seen the world, and walked on many lands. There is no place freer, based on my travels, than Alaska. Many here want to be an independent nation..LOL...

Guns, no problem. Many people here even own their own military hardware, tanks, etc. If you even go to the woods, you need to be armed. I've even seen people strolling throgh Wall- Mart (yeah, even here) with their side arm holstered on their side.

Subsistence, is very possible, off the land. Hunting regulations are not in effect if you live in the wilderness, if you need to eat, shoot it. Or catch it, with fish. Many live such lifestyle.

Economy, wide open. Even our state pays every man, woman and child an annual dividend, a percentage off all the oil revenue. So, you can even make income off living remotely, from the state. Many people do this, have 10 kids, etc. and mutiply by 1400.00$ each annually. All residents are eligible, after being here or living for a year, as with infants.

Drug laws, LOL. I hate all the chemical substances like meth and crack. They ruin many lives, and take many also. But marijuana is legal here, in your home. You can grow 6 plants legally, if I remember correct, for personal consumption. Under 25 plants is a misdemeanor, over that amount is a felony. The best in the world is here, all hydro of course. I do not partake, but I feel that this is a good law. If you take an Alaskan bud and throw it up at your ceiling, it will stick there... and is all seedless high grade.

And, when or if anything does go down, we can dissappear in amongst more than a million mountains!!!
Kill a moose, catch and smoke a bunch of salmon, and you are good for the winter, as far as meat goes. Caribou also. Bear, many bear...later this summer check my blog- as I will be fishing with the brownies soon and will post some pics.

I LOVE ALASKA! Truly, The Last Frontier...





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