The Rise Of The ATS Invertebrate: or, it takes a spine to be a conspiracy theorist.

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
The whole point with this thread is help us all focus on what is being said and to reduce or eliminate the knee-jerks sensitivities that may cause us to focus more on a retaliatory reaction than much-needed contemplation.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/da8b05ecf245.gif[/atsimg]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Thank you for clearing that up.

Perhaps some of the people who feel attacked are running to the mods because they can't fight their own battles.

Because they have taken themselves and their argument out on a limb and realise the only way they can "win" is to disable the opposition.

I take great offense at the suggestion that people are overly-sensitive of criticism! In fact, I don't know if I can even cope with the contention that so many people are thin-skinned invertebrates — it hurts my ears and sends chills rippling all across my gelatinous body. Please try to refrain from saying or even thinking such cruel and disrespectful things about people! It might hurt someone's feelings, God forbid!



— Doc Velocity

Very well put, I think it is helpful to let us know when things like this happen (like a rise in a specific type of complaints) because we only see, generally, what is right out in the open on the site.

Thank you.

I know I am likely guilty too. Hiding insult in intellectual discussion is a hazard.

I will endeavor to remain un-polarized and bead on the issues, not the individuals.

It does seem that many use the rules as a weapon too. I get polarized at unfair tactics, or squelching from people ignorant of the deeper content. Everyone deserves an ear. Even the inarticulate or those new to the topics.

I find youthful exuberance and piss and vinegar can more often trump reason. My dysfunctional Batman-Complex wants to defend those under unreasonable attack, and I do not want to call a Mod on such events like a schoolyard snitch. I want to educate how I believe they are wrong. That is where I get into trouble.

I will be more vigilant for my own and let you guys do the hard work.

Thanks for spotting for us.

ZG

I have only been on here about a month or so (love the site!!!) and I noticed this myself. I personally dont post that much (I am working on my first real thread but I'm researching it first) but I read a lot on here. I never understood why people couldnt have an adult conversation so to speak online about different ideas and theories. Hopefully people will stop acting like this and not take things so personal. Many people now-a-days seem to be easily offended and unable to take criticism.

Originally posted by intrepid


I think the first is pretty clearly a personal attack. The second says the same but it is not.

Does that help?

I was mostly interested in the comment that ALL attacks of groups should be refrained from.

I was curious if the person who posted that comment felt saying things like, (and I will pick on the Nazis here, they are an easy target) "The Nazis were an evil, hateful organization" Or, "Hitler was an evil, hateful man." I was wondering if the words were the important part of the equation for them.

I do personally understand that it might be more objective to say,

"I really disagree with the Nazi agenda. I find it unpleasant that they decided to kill several million humans to further their ends." Or, "That Hitler, he sure an unpleasant character wasnt, he?" However, someone whose own family members were among that several million may express an opinion that the party was "evil" for doing what they did, and Hitler "hateful" for ordering it.

Clearly the former is an attack against the group "Nazi" but would the person find this unacceptable?

I personally dont. I understand that humans are not purely rational beings, that we are also emotional beings. I dont think that all emotion could or should be removed from our speech. I think it would lessen the impact of some arguments, and we respond to emotion more than reason often. We like it better. For instance, I may argue a point rationally, but it will be when emotion seeps into a post that it actually lands the point home. Its just the way we seem to be built. I personally am often dismayed that the logic I had worked so hard to present had less impact, but c'est la vive.

I think the reason "no attacks on any group" is problematic because the author of that post did not clarify what an "attack" was. For them it could be sharp criticism of their actions, or policy. Or sarcasm. Or it could be using emotionally charged words. I was just trying to gain insight into what they considered "attacking."

I think people are stressed, and we sometimes bring our frustrations onto the forum,

Look at the state of the world, well we are a reflection of the world.

There are people I totally disagree with politically and or on spiritual matters, yet i adore their personality.

We don't live in a perfect world.
Frustrating, isn't it?

Hopefully this is the right place for this question.

I'd like to know what the guidelines are for a thread like this one.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Read the OP's second post. The way i see it he/she just used a tragedy as yet another reason to bash America, and Americans. Or am i just being overly sensitive?

[edit on 3/29/2009 by chise61]

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


Perhaps this deserves it's own thread?

To be honest I hadn't really thought about it in that much depth, but your question deserves an answer.

I was thinking more of a group attack along the lines of the civility and decorum rules.

I prefer the objective version.

"I really disagree with the Nazi agenda. I find it unpleasant that they decided to kill several million humans to further their ends." Or, "That Hitler, he sure an unpleasant character wasnt, he?" However, someone whose own family members were among that several million may express an opinion that the party was "evil" for doing what they did, and Hitler "hateful" for ordering it.

I think in some ways this is a good argument, because I don't think many people here are Nazis and so it's quite distant for us.
But on the other hand what did the families of the Nazis think?
What did Hitlers mother think? (Perhaps this deserves it's thread too?)

Thinking about the emotional side, how much is it real passion for the subject? or as other people have mentioned just general venting? or just an ego thing of wanting to win even though they know they might be wrong? or just trolling?

Personally I have only been personally attacked a couple of times and I just leave a sarcastic reply. I don't think I know anyone here in real life so it's all just words on a screen. If something does touch a nerve I type a draft reply and walk away and review it later.

Each post has a little button at the bottom called ALERT. If you feel that a post is violating the T & C or you think a thread is in the wrong section, click the alert button and let the mods know. Mods are not all-knowing and by alerting them, you might be able to difuse a situation before it explodes and the thread gets closed.

I'd like to know if i'm right in perceiving these comments as a personal attack against myself.


"If you used your brain at all", "Somehow higher intelligence escaped your tunnel vision, so i'll spell it out in romper room terms that maybe you can understand", and " Now does that make sense to you, or do we need to get out the blocks ?"

This is what another member said to me in response to one of my posts, and these comments made up almost all of his post.

I am new here, less than six months. Over a year before I signed up.

I got a few bloody noses to start and found the limits with Mods by losing a couple of thousand points.

I don't have a problem with most posters as long as they agree with me. lol



You hit the nail on the head about thin skinned. The only thing that gets me are the posts that take up three pages. Keep them short please.
Information is wonderful, I have found a tremedous amount here.

I know how hard it is to run this site. I had a short term one that was about the same numbers as you do now.
It's really hard!
Expensive as well, servers that stay up are not cheap, I've crashed plenty.

So I thank you SkepticOverlord and all the staff and Mods for working so hard 24/7.

Just for clarification, if I go into a thread and say, "You all are just idiots" or something, is that OK?
I mean it's different from "9-11 believers are all idiots". (Which I don't believe.)
Just askin.

What I noticed on the chemtrail threads recently was that although some information was off topic perhaps, it was related enough and interesting enough, however the attacks being done weren't severe, rather light compared to what experiencers or anyone sharing on a grey area thread put up with, which generally has to do with personal insults over and over again, being called a delusional fool, and being told repeatedly to seek mental help. I actually was surprised that there was such an ernormous difference in what people were expected to tolerate.

Originally posted by chise61
I'd like to know if i'm right in perceiving these comments as a personal attack against myself.


"If you used your brain at all", "Somehow higher intelligence escaped your tunnel vision, so i'll spell it out in romper room terms that maybe you can understand", and " Now does that make sense to you, or do we need to get out the blocks ?"

This is what another member said to me in response to one of my posts, and these comments made up almost all of his post.

Yeah, I was wondering that too.

For me, the frustration isn't in what is being said, so-to-say, but how many similar threads are being created about the EXACT same subject over and over again. Every new thread is slightly different, but always has the same message or idea. The creators of the threads act as if its drastically different, and needs to be shown, yet, we already have 3-4 threads on the 1st page about the exact same idea. And I'm mainly talking about the UFO section. My interest in the UFO areas has declined dramatically, and its all due to threads that really don't rely on the material at hand, but the attempt to try and define where everybody stands on the subject, when that shouldn't even be an issue, but more of a personal outlook on certain subjects/ideas. I want more cases to look at and explore, instead of figuring out what I believe in, when that should be apparent before coming into the section to begin with.

I think that rather than arguing over semantics as regards to what constitutes a personal attack, people just need to use common sense.

I've put in maybe one or two complaints where I believe that someone is either trying to derail a thread by focussing on the poster rather than the post, and one where I felt that a poster was really being rather hurtful. I don't know if anything ever happened and quite frankly I'm not all that bothered because once the initial rage has worn off it's only words on a screen, isn't it?

If something is libellous or illegal then that's another story, but if someone wants to call me thick, deluded, ignorant or whatever, that's down to them. It's their perogative to think what they like of me. As long as they ain't swearing at me I don't really have a problem.

It's the nature of the internet for people who are perhaps not very assertive in real life to nurture a more 'confrontational' D-Ego (to hijack Springer's term) and I can live with it. Let them have their ego boost and rest safe in the knowledge that they are probably some spotty kid hiding away in their parent's basement. If it's getting too much just remind yourself that you have a partner, have had intimate relationships and can form friendships.

ATS thrives on debate, civil (for the most part) argument and alternate viewpoints locked in intellectual battle. By complaining about petty things we are doing ourselves a disservice as I'm sure no-one here wants to be seen as a member of 'that site where everyone always cries to the mods.'

Chill, laugh at things when people aim insults at you (and if it does go 'too far' I'm sure someone will notice and step in accordingly) and just have fun.

This ain't the pub where it's gonna end up with a bloodied nose, a fine and a night in the cells.

It's ATS - relax, laugh and intellectually bash the hell out of one another...

Peace,

MGGG

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Some good points there and I'm sure many of the complaints made are
more about 'insecure attention seeking' rather than any sincere regard for objective truth.

Just a thought but why not allow a sceptical alternative for the theism board-it'd probably allow a more balanced and equal platform for 'all'
members to air their views and lead to more constructive,informed discussion.

[edit on 02/10/08 by karl 12]

Originally posted by chise61 Or am i just being overly sensitive?

Since you asked, from a proud American, I think you are being sensitive.

Just give someone like that enough rope and they will hang themselves for you. Or as Napoleon said: "Never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake."

Originally posted by azzllin
Every one of us at some time or other has had a comment made about something we have said, and have posted something in response which has caused arm waving and a tantrum or two.

Some of the comments have been pretty vicious, there is always some who will jump in to defend when that happens, best thing is to let it wash over you and ignore it if you cant do it with some maturity, but there will always be some who are more sensitive than others.

some people don't understand everyone has and is entitled to an opinion, no matter what the subject is, if it is taken to heart, then browse more threads, see how it's been done for a long time, there are members on here who cant stand each other, yet they are civil during discussion, and those who believe everything they say is the way it is, and not willing to give others a voice, and consider their thoughts on subjects.

Debate is good, but whining just takes the enjoyment out of hearing the views of others, laugh it off, this is the internet, just words, when all is done and dusted, you turn off your computer, you should leave it there, not let it spill over into your life enough to let it worry you, you still have your opinion.

You benefit from a site like this a lot more when you can take criticism, if it upsets you, nobody forces you to be here, give it a go, you may well be surprised.

It's a conspiracy site, not the school playground.

Since this is BB forum and I can't give your post a star, I'd like to add: *

Originally posted by loam
Am I the only here who thinks that most people in this thread think it refers to someone else?

Just sayin'

"Brevity is the soul of wit" -W.S.

That is hilarious, unless you were referring to me.

KK

[edit on 29-3-2009 by kinda kurious]


[edit on 29-3-2009 by kinda kurious]