The Rise Of The ATS Invertebrate: or, it takes a spine to be a conspiracy theorist.

I am glad that this thread was started, I get rubbed the wrong way on occasion,, but it is the hate mongers that make me go way beyond indignant.... When people express 'Hate' verbally toward another group of people, they should be willing to stop posting on the topic. In order to hate you have emotionally gone beyond the ability to reason intellectually. .... This is angers me to the extent that, I will just not post on that thread, or make an ass of myself trying to reason with a hater..... When hatred rears its ugly head, all reasonable debate becomes impossible.

reply to post by chise61


Do you think that maybe you might be doing anything to provoke that?

And I mean that as a sincere question, not a hint. I am not familiar enough with your posting to have an opinion of my own at all. I just notice that some of the things certain people are complaining about hearing frequently are not things I hear frequently.

If I am going to be attacked personally, it usually goes something like, "dont you just think you are smart," or "condescending" or "arrogant."

The uncomfortable truth is, that some of these people may have a point. There are times when I am annoyed that I AM condescending, smug, or arrogant. And the people that are accusing me of that often are the very people I have taken that tone with.

Is there any possibility, if you are hearing questions regarding your intelligence, that there are times you dig your heels in dogmatically and refuse to really consider the other persons argument? Not that you are unintelligent, but are there times when you refuse to use it because you dont like the other point of view?

The bad thing with wanting to silence all personal criticism, is that some of it may be true. Especially if it is repeated as a mantra. Not all of it is, but I have found if I am insulted in the same way more than once, I should consider looking in that area. It isnt always a valid criticism, but it sometimes is.

Originally posted by chise61
This is what another member said to me in response to one of my posts, and these comments made up almost all of his post.

Did you use the alert function to let the staff know about it?

It's impossible for our staff to be aware of every thread and every post.

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander



No i really don't think that was the case. I've been here a year now and have only come across what i considered a personal attack against myself maybe three times, it's not something that i frequently encounter. It wasn't a situation of digging my heels in and refusing to consider their arguement, it was a case of what they were comparing was like comparing apples to a t-bone steak. They were being juvenile and i just thought it innapropiate to personally attack me because i asked them to use a valid comparrison.

Although there is always the possibility that i may have said something that they felt was insulting to them. I think we all may have come across as condisending, or arrogant at times.

Basically i just wanted the input from one of the Mods, or owners, as i was unsure of whether or not thus was a personal attack and therefore did not hit the alert button. I figured this was the perfect thread to find out if i was justified in being offended by those remarks, or if i was just being overly sensitive.

Edited for spelling, and gramatical error.


[edit on 3/29/2009 by chise61]

This will be great if it's enforced correctly and fairly... I'm one that SO seems to have a problem with and all I wish is for both sides to be held accountable for their actions equally. Having two threads closed because the mod was unable to contain the direction of the conversation, yet not dealing out any suspensions as directed in the T&C, is in my opinion as well as others not warranted.

I will endeavor to follow the guidelines as I've always done and just hope that others that disagree with me are not given special privileges, like having their posts remain yet others are removed, yet they are both at fault.

It's the obvious bias that I have a problem with and the way that it's dealt with, like this thread...

IMHO of Course

Rgds


[edit on 29-3-2009 by AllTiedTogether]

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


No i didn't because i wasn't sure if it was a case where i should have, or if i was just being overly sensitive, that's why i posed the question.

I hope it's clear that my post was a question and not a complaint. I just want to know if i should hit the alert button in a case like that or not.

Originally posted by chise61
I just want to know if i should hit the alert button in a case like that or not.

Any post that primarily focuses on criticism of another member is worthy of possibly alerting the staff. Some extenuating circumstances might be...

1) If the focus of the post (the member being discussed) is obviously focused on an agenda and unwilling to tolerate or respond to questions and logical critique.

2) If the focus of the post (the member being discussed) is clearly posting false information on purpose, or perpetuating a hoax.

3) If the focus of the post (the member being discussed) is being purposefully disruptive and has no interest in the topic of the thread.

Generally, slagging-off on another member is heavily frowned upon... however, as you can see, there may be cases where it's warranted.

As this board keeps growing so the growing pains keeps getting worst.

Interesting when it comes to the complains against the Establishment, I was wondering when the members that disappear or may I say took a vacation until the regime change I mean the opposite party took power will come back.

They are coming back indeed, to take advantage of starting the new trend in complains now to the regime in charge, I mean the new political party.

Still while most members seems to be pretty good at dealing with the different angles of conspirators ideologies you can never get away from those that will feel offended about any thing no matter what.

This thread seems like "deja vu" as the Tittle while different still the same topic or "problem" going on an on.

Depending of how many injured feelings are out there.

reply to post by SkepticOverlord

...but all-in-all, can be condensed down to a simple common denominator, and to be blunt it is best described as: spinelessness...

how about milquetoast?

...just when I was getting ready to ask - why does everybody got to be so mean? :-)

civil isn't the same thing as nice

if everyone discussing a subject actually was just nice and non confrontational - ATS would be a collection of nothing but insipid chats - recorded for all time - or however long this is all recorded for

I wasn't here at the beginning - but I imagine the type of people who showed up in the early days were suited to this environment - were used to scrapping and brawling (in a civilized manner of course) and in general were just not as easily offended

people with strong opinions tend to understand other people with strong opinions even when they disagree with each other

there does always seem to be someone who misinterprets passion and sees it as a personal attack - even when it's not even close

there are times when joshing seems to be enough to offend certain people, and obviously there are people who don't understand that a topic that offends them is an opportunity for them to explain why it offends them - that the following discussion or even argument is the whole point

I don't see how you can really avoid this - this thread might help if enough people read it

but if your audience and or type of member has changed somewhat, I don't see how you can reduce the number of complaints unless you offer some sort of anger management/anti-sulking primer to new members when they sign up - 10 Easy Steps to a Thicker Skin - or something

sounds ridiculous - but it could reduce the number of extra complaints you receive, it might also encourage people who are more timid or overly sensitive to understand what's what and allow them to participate in a more meaningful way

Originally posted by SkepticOverlord
9/11 Truth supporters being overly sensitive toward conspiracy debunkers

9/11 debunkers being overly sensitive to 9/11 Truth supporters

Chemtrail conspiracy supporters being easily upset over alternate explanations

Chemtrail debunkers being delicate in regards to chemtrail conspiracy supporters

Not to sound paranoid, but starting out with 9/11 and chemtrails almost sounds like a response to something I wrote in another thread to SO after he encouraged people to bring attention to conspiracies not in the top 10. I maintain there's numerous shills and organized disinformation campaigns whenever these particular topics are brought up. Why do people spend all their free time on conspiracy sites if they don't believe in conspiracies? It would be like me spending my life on a CSICOP or JREF forum. I'm just not interested in debating the ignorant... unless there was some kind of external motivation involved.

Criticism Of A Group Of Like-Minded People Is Not A Personal Attack

This is the second-most common form of hypersensitive complaint we've been receiving. While such comments may help to provide insight into the author, posting something like, "UFO believers are fools," may be somewhat offensive, but is not typically a direct personal attack (this where context becomes important). As proponents of a broad spectrum of highly-speculative concepts and provocative conspiracy theories, our most important attributes that display professionalism and earnestness are a thick-skin, resiliency, and grace under pressure. We cannot be over-sensitive to broad-stroke criticism and instead must politely smile, brush it off, and continue our quest.

Couldn't agree more. However, I noted that simply using a phrase such as "NASA shills" without mentioning anyone in particular will likely cost you 1000 points.

I think it's ATS mods who are sometimes hyper-vigilant and overly sensitive. I've been a mod myself and the only criticism I occasionally have is overly aggressive moderation.

Debate by definition, demands opposing points of view. I am pleased you have cleared the decks for such valued debate to continue.

As ever, the subject is all - and all opinions should be respected and vigorously argued with proper decorum. I entirely agree that nobody should make a point unless they are willing to accept healthy and valid opposition.

All the very best to you all

Myrdyn

Originally posted by lightchild
Perhaps some of the people who feel attacked are running to the mods because they can't fight their own battles.

Actually, in the past we have been encouraged to hit the alert button instead of responding to the off-topic-personal-insult-crap ourselves.

I'd love for the mods to allow a good ol' fashioned scream fest complete with colorful nouns and verbs used. Won't happen .. but I can dream ..

I can't believe the exoskeletonism I am hearing around here. Is anyone else really bugged by this?

reply to post by FlyersFan

I'd love for the mods to allow a good ol' fashioned scream fest complete with colorful nouns and verbs used. Won't happen .. but I can dream ..

We almost did ...remember the Slugfest?

Originally posted by FlyersFan

I'd love for the mods to allow a good ol' fashioned scream fest complete with colorful nouns and verbs used. Won't happen .. but I can dream ..

Now THAT would be an awesome forum, "The Cage" (like you see in Ultimate Fighting Championships) where there are no rules, let the blood flow, no crying heeded.

I know they cant do it, because of the need to filter cussing, etc., but I would love to see it.

I personally enjoy some of the more heated debates, even if I am not participating. (Often especially if I am not participating )

The way I see it, this is the best place I know to discuss subjects that are sensitive and that thinking people are very passionate about whatever their views. A little common courtesy goes a long way, after all we're pretty much of kindred spirit here. On the other hand, what the heck good is a discussion without different viewpoints?
I don't mix it up here (I do plenty elsewhere) but I chose a porcupine with a gas mask on for my avatar because it's a good reminder of the mindset that's often required when participating in this sort of thing.

I agree, however I think there leaves something to be said about the people- who leave us Posters as having to prove something, or debate something, just bc someone wants to be ignorant and says it didnt happen or doesnt exist.

It can be extremely aggravating when one spends alot of time on their thread to have their first few replys be by people who are ignorant on the subject or are just being difficult.

No wonder people are becomming oversensative, when you have to bend over backwards to prove your personal story or debate it.

Maybe we could begin reporting those people??

reply to post by Illusionsaregrander


I remember when I first joined ATS the used to have the Mud pit now that forum was so scary that the first time I ventured into it, I almost came out without my head.

I was too green for it, but if they bring it back now I will take it, in hard beat.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
I maintain there's numerous shills and organized disinformation campaigns whenever these particular topics are brought up. Why do people spend all their free time on conspiracy sites if they don't believe in conspiracies?

I assume you think Im one of them too, and its think its frowned upon because there is no logic behind your assumption. Just because someone debates strongly against a conspiracy, and/ or disagrees with you, does not mean that they are a shrill. I think SO did the right thing by closing my thread to, it was ridiculously out of hand, and the original topic was barely discussed over 700 plus posts.

And I spend free time here because their are some conspiracies that I believe in, and others that I dont. Anyway, its good to have skeptics here, it helps to keep most topics double sided, rather than have one biased point of view. Sometimes they help to remind us that there is logic and reason behind some things, and we dont have to believe everything on the internet

Good thread by the way SO