Illegal Immigration- 10 reasons Good/Bad

Illegal Immigration- 10 reasons Good/Bad.

I have been seeing a lot of people on some of these threads talking about why and why not illegal immigration is bad.
I also see a lot of BS ansers regarding the reasons why they are good/bad.

All of the rhetoric aside...I want the members to participate in this little list and jot down TEN BRIEF ONE LINEanswers to why its good/bad.

Those of you think that illegal imigration is bad...Give me 10 reasons why.
Those of you that think its ok...Give me 10 reasons why.

I wont put my 10 reasons down because I want to hear your reactions.
Remember-I dont want to see people ramble on about it.
ONE LINERS ONLY 1-10....Thanks =)




[edit on 26-3-2009 by Common Good]

Well then to make it short and simple,
Illegal immigration is not bad it has been
done and practiced for years by people simply finding
a new home.

But I know some americans will think otherwise.

This isn't about Mexican bashing. These things hurt everyone, but it's a question that can't be answered with one liners.

The average wage. Many times companies hire illegal immigrants so they can exploit them and pay them less. However, there's the same amount of jobs but more people looking for jobs. That means companies can pay less to citizens as well because people are desperate for work. It drives the wages down for everyone including the migrants.

More people cause the prices for goods like food and fuel to increase. That means everybody is being paid less while prices continue to rise. That hurts everyone.

Taxes. Since everyone is now paid less that means a possible loss of tax revenue. How does the government make it up? Tax hikes. So, now you and the immigrants are paying higher taxes as well. More children also means you have to build more schools. But your property tax reveune hasn't went up. Your city has just become more densly populated. Most likely that's actually caused a decline in property values which means even less tax revenue for schools. That means a property tax hike is coming for everyone.

The stuff bubble. More people means prices continue to rise because there's a higher demand. The prices for housing, fuel, and motor vehicles goes up, but eventually crashes. Once the average wage becomes too low a person can't afford them or get credit. All of sudden the market demand for these products disappears. Now you've got a bunch of houses, cars, and extra fuel that you can't sell. They sit empty and unsold.

There's no off switch. With legal immigration, if the population becomes too high, resources become low, or there's not enough jobs we can turn it off. We can stop taking new immigrants for a year or so. You can't do that with illegal immigration. They just keep coming even if you can't handle them right now.

Diversity and choice. Diversity is a good thing. With legal immigration we can get people from all over the world. We could choose the smartest people like inventors, engineers, mathematicians, or scientists and we can use their talents. However, with illegal immigration we don't get a choice. Typically we end up getting the poorest from countries without an education system. Their only skill is manual labor, and with our manual labor jobs going to China that's the exact opposite of what we really need. What we need is smart scientists to get us out of our energy crisis.

Identity theft. They aren't allowed to work here because they don't have an idenity. That means they have to steal one. Typically this leads to other types of identity theft like credit cards. If they steal your identity your credit may be ruined and now you may not be able to get a loan or even a place to live until you get it worked out. Also, many people go to file their tax returns only to find out they're not getting one because someone else has been working on their SSN number. They may need that rebate to pay the bills.

Social services. Illegals aren't citizens, but their kids are if they're born here. Many illegals can't get social services help, but their kids can. It's a loophole. Since they're illegal it always looks like they're unemployed on paper even when they're working. The gov can't prove they're not working by asking for their SSN card because an illegal wouldn't have an SSN right? He can just say he doesn't have one, but if I tried that of course they would know I was lying. Since their kids are technically citizens with unemployed care takers, on paper anyway, they always qualify for social services even when they have a job. They also require medical care, and if they break the law, someone has to pay for the extra jail cells.

This really isn't about immigration though. This is just what happens anytime you're over populated regardless of how you got that way. If we had jobs for them it would actually be good for us. We could just hand out SSN card

[edit on 26-3-2009 by tinfoilman]

Mexicans aren't the ONLY illegals entering the country. They are just the majority of those recognized.

So, We see TinFoilMan has a really wide screen or can't count to 1.

One reason, you actually answered yourself in the headline. I·L·L·E·G·A·L spell that out. That means that they are here illegally. What makes you think they will follow ANY policy that our laws are about if they come here ILLEGALLY.

Yes, Life is really that freakin simple.

No Pass ; pre-emptive full FAIL on debate.


[edit on 3·26·09 by DrMattMaddix]

Originally posted by DrMattMaddix
Mexicans aren't the ONLY illegals entering the country. They are just the majority of those recognized.

So, We see TinFoilMan has a really wide screen or can't count to 1.

One reason, you actually answered yourself in the headline. I·L·L·E·G·A·L spell that out. That means that they are here illegally. What makes you think they will follow ANY policy that our laws are about if they come here ILLEGALLY.

Yes, Life is really that freakin simple.

No Pass ; pre-emptive full FAIL on debate.


[edit on 3·26·09 by DrMattMaddix]

Actually I do have two 22" wide screen monitors. Anyway, I said it wasn't about mexicans. We get em from all over and all the poor countries, but we just don't have enough jobs for them anymore and that's the real problem.

Can we keep this on topic please. NO RANTING.
10 reasons for/against.
its that simple.

I will try to take on the format you requested, never having thought of it in a listed manner before. I will list the in no specific order and as many of either position I can think of.

Since I know I am more against let me begin with that.

AGAINST:
1. To be here without coming through the allowable channels is criminal.
2. The lack of assimilation I have noticed by those who don't have to go through the process legally, and since they can't openly engage society, aren't encouraged to learn the language.
3-7. The drain on the systems: medical, legal, correctional, education and environmental.
8. The overwhelming numbers of illegals has caused retailers products and public facilities to be dual-language labeled or in some cases tailored to all together.
9. Self-segregation: from what I have seen, people of a given nationality or race tend to cluster together naturally; this effect is intensified when the people involved are illegal.
10. They cause jobs and wages to be negatively affected for legal immigrants and citizens.

FOR
1. They want to do our crappy jobs.
2. We want them to do out crappy jobs.
3. They work cheap and for cash

That's all I have for now.

thanks for following the format.
two lines.

Originally posted by Common Good
Illegal Immigration- 10 reasons Good/Bad.

I have been seeing a lot of people on some of these threads talking about why and why not illegal immigration is bad.
I also see a lot of BS ansers regarding the reasons why they are good/bad.

All of the rhetoric aside...I want the members to participate in this little list and jot down TEN BRIEF ONE LINEanswers to why its good/bad.

Those of you think that illegal imigration is bad...Give me 10 reasons why.
Those of you that think its ok...Give me 10 reasons why.

I wont put my 10 reasons down because I want to hear your reactions.
Remember-I dont want to see people ramble on about it.
ONE LINERS ONLY 1-10....Thanks =)




[edit on 26-3-2009 by Common Good]

There are many reasons this is bad. But I will list the one that should be the "in a nut shell" reason.

1.) Illegal immigration is bad because it is against the law.
SOURCE

The only reform necessary is to strictly enforce the Federal Immigration and Nationality Act. Per the law:

Federal Immigration and Nationality Act


Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii) Recruitment and Employment of Illegal Aliens Encouraging and Harboring Illegal Aliens Enforcement RICO —Citizen Recourse Tax Crimes Comment

Section 8 USC 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv)(b)(iii) "Any person who . . . encourages or induces an illegal alien to . . . reside . . . knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such . . . residence is . . . in violation of law, shall be punished as provided . . . for each illegal alien in respect to whom such a violation occurs . . . fined under title 18 . . . imprisoned not more than 5 years, or both."

Section 274 felonies under the federal Immigration and Nationality Act, INA 274A(a)(1)(A):

A person (including a group of persons, business, organization, or local government) commits a federal felony when she or he:

· assists an illegal alien s/he should reasonably know is illegally in the U.S. or who lacks employment authorization, by transporting, sheltering, or assisting him or her to obtain employment, or · encourages that illegal alien to remain in the U.S. by referring him or her to an employer or by acting as employer or agent for an employer in any way, or · knowingly assists illegal aliens due to personal convictions. ·

Penalties upon conviction include criminal fines, imprisonment, and forfeiture of vehicles and real property used to commit the crime. Anyone employing or contracting with an illegal alien without verifying his or her work authorization status is guilty of a misdemeanor. Aliens and employers violating immigration laws are subject to arrest, detention, and seizure of their vehicles or property. In addition, individuals or entities who engage in racketeering enterprises that commit (or conspire to commit) immigration-related felonies are subject to private civil suits for treble damages and injunctive relief.



Recruitment and Employment of Illegal Aliens

It is unlawful to hire an alien, to recruit an alien, or to refer an illegal alien for a fee, knowing the illegal alien is unauthorized to work in the United States. It is equally unlawful to continue to employ an illegal alien knowing that the illegal alien is unauthorized to work.

It is unlawful to hire any individual for employment in the United States without complying with employment eligibility verification requirements. Requirements include examination of identity documents and completion of Form I-9 for every employee hired. Employers must retain all I-9s, and, with three days' advance notice, the forms must be made available for inspection. Employment includes any service or labor performed for any type of remuneration within the United States, with the exception of sporadic domestic service by an individual in a private home. "Day laborers" or other casual workers engaged in any compensated activity (with the above exception) are employees for purposes of immigration law. An employer includes an agent or anyone acting directly or indirectly in the interest of the employer. For purposes of verification of authorization to work, employer also means an independent contractor, or a contractor other than the person using the illegal alien labor.

The use of temporary or short-term contracts cannot be used to circumvent the employment authorization verification requirements. If employment is to be for less than the usual three days allowed for completing the I-9 Form requirement, the form must be completed immediately at the time of hire.

An employer has constructive knowledge that an employee is an illegal unauthorized worker if a reasonable person would infer it from the facts. Constructive knowledge constituting a violation of federal law has been found where (1) the I-9 employment eligibility form has not been properly completed, including supporting documentation, (2) the employer has learned from other individuals, media reports, or any source of information available to the employer that the alien is unauthorized to work, or (3) the employer acts with reckless disregard for the legal consequences of permitting a third party to provide or introduce an illegal alien into the employer's work force. Knowledge cannot be inferred solely on the basis of an individual's accent or foreign appearance.

Actual specific knowledge is not required. For example, a newspaper article stating that ballrooms depend on an illegal alien work force of dance hostesses was held by the courts to be a reasonable ground for suspicion that unlawful conduct had occurred.

It is illegal for nonprofit or religious organizations to knowingly assist an employer to violate employment sanctions, regardless of claims that their convictions require them to assist illegal aliens. Harboring or aiding illegal aliens is not protected by the First Amendment. It is a felony to establish a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of federal immigration law. Violators may be fined or imprisoned for up to five years.

Go to source for more on this law..i.e. reason

I can honestly not think of a positive.

1. we can not tell who is comming over the border, nor what they are bringing with them. criminals and terrorists are certainly amongst them.
2. they degrade the quality of our medical system by overwhelming it due to not seeking any preventative care due to their lack of insurance
3. they degrade the quality of our educational system by attending public schools, increasing teacher/student ratios and making them less efficient due to poor English skills
4. all the other insurance you have, notably car insurance is more expensive because the illegals drive with no insurance
5. they erode our national identity by their lack of a desire to integrate, unlike legal immigrants
6. they go on welfare. sure, a lot of them work, but a significant number of them go on welfare, degrading the quality of services we can provide citizens and making the programs more expensive to taxpayers
7. they primarily work under the table and rent, thus pay only sales tax. they use parks, roads, librarys, etc and pay nothing for their maintenance, etc
8. in many parts of the country, they have simply eroded the notion of America. go to El Paso and tell me its a part of America. go into a store there and try to buy something and speak English. You are in MexAmerica. Not the US. As someone who has lived both in Europe and the southern US, there is not a single country in Europe who treats you more disrespectively than you get treated in southern Arizona, Texas and California. I had a Mexican nanny who was here legally. She had family members who were in the US close to 20 years and still did not have a command of the English language. Why is that a problem? because it practically guarantees that they will be consumers of services, rather than full contributors.
9. they are not loyal to the US, unlike legal immigrants. They send their money home, rather than spend it here and when you talk to them, they want to go home.
10. It is illegal. when laws are ignored, the very nature of law becomes eroded. When you tolerate a law being broken, who should it surprise anyone that they feel it is OK not to break other laws.
11. they commit a considerable amount of crime. Phoenix is now the kidnapping capital of the WORLD.
12. they drive down the standard wage, in the same manner that India has driven technical and service jobs out of the US.

I have great respect for Mexicans and Latin Americans. I recently built a house and it was primarily built by Mexicans, illegal and legal. they worked their tails off, did quality work, were respectful and friendly to me, my wife and kids. I have absolutely no problem letting more of them into the US legally, given some level of language requirement. Illegal immigration is bad for the US and for the illegals, as well.


It has to stop and I don't buy any of that trash about doing jobs that US citizens won't do. I used to live in Washington State and most of the folks my age (40's) worked picking apples and on other farms through college as well as for summer jobs in highschool. Most of them have fond memorys of those times. US kids can not get those jobs any longer