What exactly do you believe?

Hi everyone,

To start out with, me and three other people are working on a paper for a sociology course. Through our paper, we're trying to figure out why it is that some people believe in so called "conspiracy theories" while others don't. We're also trying to figure out why some things are considered "conspiracy theories" while other things aren't. I've focused on theories about alien life for simplicity's sake and because I personally find this stuff interesting. We're planning to use what you guys say in this and a couple other threads to write our paper.

Also, I checked with one of the general mods to see if making this thread was okay, and he said it was alright, but if I'm doing something annoying please let me know!

Anyway, the first thing I was wondering was what exactly is it that you believe about extra-terrestrials. Do you think they exist at all? Do you think intelligent life has visited earth, and if so do you think the government has actively tried to cover up the fact that this happened?

Also, why is it that you either do or don't believe in these things?

I'll be checking back here pretty regularly, so if you want to ask me anything please do. Thanks.

It seems people are reluctant to share their opinions on this subject with you. I can't imagine why,
I will say I feel the words beliefs is a strong word that does not apply to many of us here. Beliefs are something you associate with religion. It is an ideal that is held without any proof or scientific basis. You will find that it may be hard to distinguish between the "believers" and the "skeptics" here at times, because some of use are both. Here there are people who are KNOWERS and skeptics.
Those who know are not just saying they know from a belief or faith but from personal experience that no one else will ever understand until perhaps they have their own experience and KNOW the truth. I'm not even going to attempt to explain all of my experiences to you here. It has taken enough for me to document them on ATS and start sharing them in the media center. Each time I do this it takes a great deal of energy from me and it takes time to restore. I am not sure why this is.. but it just seems to be the case. When you experience things you cannot explain and science cannot explain you get an understanding of another kind and a respect for that which is unknown, but you also get a very protective nature towards those that try to hoax about those subjects and thereby damaging the opinion of the field of research to the public who don't need more disinfo.
I don't believe anything, but I know what I know and I lean toward certain opinions until proof shows me that another seems to be more likely.

NephraTari,

You're right. Belief might be too strong of a word.



What I'm trying to get at is what it is that people think is true as opposed to what they don't think is true. I think there's an idea within our society that everyone that believes in aliens believes in this one grand theory and I think this view is naive on the part of society, so that's kind of where the question is coming from. Thanks for the feedback.

I personally believe that some people have a hard time considering some of these theories because they are outside of their personal reality. To question what they have been told all their life's is to question their view on reality.

Other people accept that they do not yet have a full understanding of reality, and spend their time trying to formulate what that might be.

People are afraid of the dark, not because the dark itself is scary, but because what is unknown is scary...

reply to post by hoffness


There are too many excellent cases to ignore the UFO phenomena. From respected eyewitnesses to physical evidence, the case for the ET hypothesis can be made. What is needed is to get the smoking gun, and have a real scientific debate and approach to the subject.

I also think the government knows a lot more and has possession of alien artifacts from past crashes and/or landings.

I think conspiracy theories are conspiracies, acts of terror and fear deployed and carried out by the governments around the world the keep the people on the edge and get an 'security' feeling, an feeling that the gov's are 'proctecting' them from harm.

The reason it is an 'theory', is that the governments can not tell the public about it, that will never happen.
futhermore, when the Gov's gets theyr orders from the ones who truly runs the show, and always have, as you can read about in older books (older still),they have little choice but to act on it...Chain of command..

Let me give an older conspiracy theory example here, in London, there was this man named Sir William Gull, and he was instructed to spread fear around London by the Gov. He had an helper, one who kidnapped the victims, and he got protection from the Police cheiff. Sir W.Gull was know as Jack The Ripper..

For this Theory to be fact, the Gov. of England must admitt to the crime, and it is no longer a 'theory' ...

As for the ET part, well I have seen ufos and maby lasers on the sky, dont know for sure,Doubt it mostly but didnt act like meteors..

Know, several astronaughts have come forth with sworn statements that they are real, and the only thing standing in the way, is B.Obama since the whole world chose to believe the president of the USA only and not make own conclusions. One man standing between the popultion of the entire world an the fact, the truth....
You see, the day it is officaly declared that ET are real, all religion will seem to become an 'true story' rather than a whole lot of 'secret' meanings, and world panic will hit us all, reality will crumble down as the new one is forced down on those he have no clue on what is going on !

just my 2cents on conspiracies..

O.K. here's things as I see them.

1) It seems almost certain that life in some forms exists on other planets.

2) I think it's very likely that some of this life is as intelligent or more intelligent than us (that's not a big ask).

3)There are many things about the universe we don't understand. Just because we think practical interstellar travel is impossible doesn't mean it is. In fact I'm sure it can be done. Only around 100 years ago it was accepted as fact that any vehicle with an average density greater than that of air would not be able to fly. Impossible. It was also believed that the book on theoretical physics was nearly complete. All that was left was a few little things to work out and we would know everything about the universe and the laws that govern it. How wrong we were on both counts!

4) There is far too much evidence regarding U.F.O.s to dismiss them. The evidence fairly strongly points to them being vehicles under intelligent control. There is also convinving evidence to say these crafts and their occupants are from other worlds, when/wherever that may be.

5) I also believe that the whole subject of U.F.O.s was originally covered up for possibly good reasons (national security, mass panic). I think it's now at a point where there is just too much to cover up and the lie has become so inground it would be difficult to go back. Maybe it's better we are kept in the dark. Recent events have demonstrated just how fragile our economy and our society is. This could destroy us. I think the people behind the coverup don't know what the hell to do anymore.

As the old saying goes, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck. I believe it to be ENTIRELY possible that these are just beings, not entirely unlike us, from another planet and can travel between solar systems as easily as we travel between countries.

I also accept that I could be wrong.

As much as we are certain of what we know.. we really know very little.
sify.com...



[edit on 18-3-2009 by NephraTari]

I believe in aliens (and interterrestrials) because I trust the source. That source is The Terra Papers (linked in my sig).

I have been emailing the author, and also have had dealings with someone he knew back when the Papers came out. I trust the source.

(Also, a good and trusted friend mentioned that their uncle was in the NSA for many years, and before he died, he affirmed aliens (amongst other things.)

Originally posted by ChemBreather

For this Theory to be fact, the Gov. of England must admitt to the crime, and it is no longer a 'theory' ...

That's a good point. I think it's interesting how when society defines something as a fact it's almost more important who is saying it than what's actually being said.

I'm happy with the way things are going so far. I'd love to hear about other people's opinions.

"To believe" pertains more to people like the ones involved in the vatican's environments. I don't "believe" in NOTHING.

BUT

I Think that some extraterrestrials forms of life visited us, and also that some of them got some incident here on earth: basically, that it CRASHED: we have some incidents worthy to be investigated.
But is hard to know more, mate. If you pose the question as if it was a matter of faith then all i can tell you is LOOK AT THE FACTS. Otherwise, wait until this thread will get buried by some crappy other threads (it's a matter of hours). To Believe has nothing to to with science, knowledge, nor with the books you have read: your thread is the first one (of this type) worthy to stay in Aliens & UFOs, despite its speculating inspiration and poor basics, but to move this one to the gray area would be a crime
And have an humble star from ME.


[edit on 19/3/2009 by internos]

I believe, or "know" ( ) about ETs and NASAs big hairy lies. I've seen a UFO (on 3 occasions) myself, so I don't even question it. I take it as fact that there is a heck of alot of life out there, and it's interested in us. (well, some of it is) What their interest is, is what's up for grabs IMO. Maybe we're some sort of museum to them, of primitive life. Maybe they're just fattening us up for a big harvest. Earth could just be a big farm. Or they could could just be curious, or prehaps they want to help. Who knows. (they do!) But I also reckon that the goverment have been in contact with at least some ofthe races out there, and that worrys me more than anything else, cos they're not exactly known for their gentlemanly conduct.

Anyway, there's my take on this whole shaboodle.

I believe that the best UFO evidence (as far as I'm concerned), are the thousands of reports of odd things happening by a wide range of people. While it's logically possible to dismiss the bulk of these sightings as misidentifications, hoaxes, or hallucinations, I believe there is always going to be some very tiny fraction of a percentage of these reports you just have to accept as happening pretty much the way the witnesses describe. Occam's Razor suggests that it's simply too improbable for every single person to be wrong about what they saw or experienced.

And if that's the case, then really weird stuff happens sometimes. I don't know what. But something. And something worth looking into, if only for amusement purposes.

As a skeptic, the hardest thing to debunk are the simple reports of weird stuff. Somebody says an orange flying saucer flew over their heads and vanished. No photos or video. No other corroborating evidence. I can't do anything with it from a positive perspective. It's not proof of anything, and it's not going to solve any puzzles. But I can't just call that person a liar or crazy, either, without proof that that's what they are.

My only response is to congratulate that person. They get a cookie. But it does make me think. What's it all about? So I believe there's something odd going on. But I could be wrong. Maybe it's all lies, misidentification or some other kind of insanity.

So, like Atlantis, maybe it doesn't exist, but it doesn't hurt to look.

[edit on 19-3-2009 by Nohup]

If you take the time to realize how often we the people listen to others in order to find information and perspective...then you will see that if you take the time to listen to those who have testemony of abduction or possibly taped FAA voice recordings, or video interview..you will find that testemony is truely the best way to get in touch with this phenomena.

having been the type of guy that has encountered well over a hundred cases on ATS and beyond i find that those who argue over evidence and or fact or proof just havent really spent the 'alone time' needed to see that there are hundreds if not thousands of credible people that have admited to the presence of ET's.

at times (usually filled with frustration) just observing all of the bantering back and forth is enough to sort of expose the truth that there IS something happening we the people however, just cant come to a concensous.

I for one 'believe' in the testemony of those who are of the highest calibur of credibility. and at the same time. like Nephratari states, im also waiting for a smoking gun, in my PERSONAL life. so that i can finally have an 'affirmation'.. good luck on your paper and i appreciate the time you spent reading all of our posts. peace

I honestly wouldn't bother helping these people with their 'research'. The chances are that if they know nothing of these subjects, then they come from a place of ignorance.

How can anyone trust that these people will portray you or your views accurately or that they are even being truthful of why they are collecting the data in the first place?

Unless this little exercise is backed up by one of the three amigo's, I'd give them a wide berth.

IRM

You'll get the best results and statistics if you present a survey.
But....

what exactly is it that you believe about extra-terrestrials

I believe that extra-terrestrial, intelligent entities have been visiting us rather regularly since at least the early 1940's, and likely more isolated visits even earlier

Reasoning: Prior to this time, the phenomenon didn't really exist. Then, people started seeing saucers. The government took the matter very seriously, and funded projects Twinkle, Sign, Grudge, and Bluebook over the course of many years to ascertain the threat level posed by the phenomenon. Many reports are made by military officers, pilots, and other trained observers, and the craft's attributes defy current performance levels of terrestrial craft. The case of Betty and Barney Hill remains as an excellent piece of evidence supporting visitation.

Do you think they exist at all?

Yes.

Reasoning: The Drake Equation (or even just basic statistics) supports that given the number of stars in the Universe, there are likely a LOT of intelligent civilizations out there. It furthermore stands to reason that some of these civilizations have been around longer than we have. Given our current technology development as a curved scale, and applying that to older civilizations, it is not unreasonable to assume they've developed technology that enables expedient interstellar travel.

Do you think intelligent life has visited earth, and if so do you think the government has actively tried to cover up the fact that this happened?

Yes.

Reasoning. The government has been caught in the coverup attempts quite regularly. For example, the government's official position has always been that Blue Book was the last official government interest in the UFO phenomenon. Yet, we have numerous examples of officially-sponsored inquiries after this, but held more secretively, such as the Robertson Panel. In addition, there is Roswell. Here we have a case where an official press release stated they recovered a flying disc, and then a weather balloon retraction. Later, we have the government claiming that alien bodies were really dummies from Project High Dive. Problem: Project High Dive (and it's dummies) didn't exist in 1947.

There is also a paper trail suggesting the formation of a secret group (call it Majestic, MJ-12, MIB or whatever you like) made up of individuals who would have been ideal for investigating such phenomena... Even former officials in charge, and high up, in Blue Book have gone on record stating the coverup.

Also, why is it that you either do or don't believe in these things?

See above, as easier to give you the answer to this point by point.

Demographic statistics (also good for your paper).
White Male between 25-40 yrs old, College educated (Bachelor's degree, halfway through Master's (MBA) program), Southeast U.S., Project Manager for a nationwide Telecommunications company.

Text

Text

I believe Extraterrestrials are real...period. I have seen and heard too much information supporting their existence to turn a blind eye/deaf ear to the reality of it all. David Sereda, Jim Marrs, Richard Hoagland and a slew of other sources have shown me the truth in the matter. It is not hard to convince someone that other beings inhabit this multiverse if you show them proof and it is 100% out there for any avid web-surfer to find.

One last tidbit. People--disbelievers and skeptics mainly--seem to be waiting for a public acknowledgment; an official "Yeah, they're real," proclamation from the government/military before they except the truth. This is not going to happen; it doesn't need to happen. All of the proof we as a planet need is out in plain sight.

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
I honestly wouldn't bother helping these people with their 'research'. The chances are that if they know nothing of these subjects, then they come from a place of ignorance.

How can anyone trust that these people will portray you or your views accurately or that they are even being truthful of why they are collecting the data in the first place?

Unless this little exercise is backed up by one of the three amigo's, I'd give them a wide berth.

IRM

The research I'm doing is for a class project. The class is Deviant Behavior, and through the paper we're supposed to get exposure to people that our society labels negatively and try to explain how those people react to being labeled negatively, if at all.
I don't really have any motives besides trying to get a good grade. You're right to be skeptical, though. I've read many studies and thought to myself "what the hell were they thinking"? I'll try to represent people's opinions as accurately as I can, but I acknowledge that I can't guarantee that.

Originally posted by Gazrok
You'll get the best results and statistics if you present a survey.
But....

This is what I would have preferred, but we thought we'd have troubles getting people to fill out a survey in real life and the moderators thought distributing a survey through the website was flirting with the boundaries of the Terms and Conditions, so I chose to get responses this way instead.

I also appreciate info people want to give about themselves, but I was afraid it would come across as pushy if I asked for it on the internet.


Thank you everyone, this is going better than I had expected.


[edit on 20-3-2009 by hoffness]

*shameless bump*

I just wanted to make one last call for people to add anything to the thread if they would like to. Also, the second part of the study is here if you'd be interested in contributing to that discussion:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I wanted to thank the people who have participated in the study so far. This should make for an interesting paper, and I hope to be able to present your opinions in a more open-minded way than I've seen in the literature. We will post the paper when it's done, which will be in late April or early May.

reply to post by hoffness


Good thread.

I belive ET is as common in our galaxy alone as different races and humans are common on this planet. I think the entire universe is teeming with life, and we are just one race amongst many.

I believe that ET has been visiting Earth for millions of years, even before we started to evolve. I think there have been many cycles of civilisations on this planet with constant intercourse with ET civilisations. The line between terrestrial and extraterrestrial is very blurred, just like the line today between european/asian/african is blurred. There has been a lot of interbreeding in the past between many ET races and terrestrial races.

I believe there are both benevolent and hostile ET races, but not necessarily hostile in the sense that they would invade us like in Hollywood movies, but hostile in the sense that they would manipulate us for their ends.

I definitely believe that there is a cover-up and this cover-up goes back decades, if not centuries. I think ET beings co-habit with us and have bases underground and undersea.

I believe the ET races see us much like a human sees an animal. They consider us primitive and very backwards in our material, social and spiritual development and this is why they have not initiated open dialoge with us.

I believe there will be ET contact eventually, but it still is in our distant future. We have a long way to go before we are ready for open contact. When this contact happens it will open up a whole new chapter in civilisation.

[edit on 31-3-2009 by Indigo_Child]