Suicide: Karma's 'Reset' Button?

I've dealt with suicidal thoughts all my life. But since I was a child I maintained the same perspective on the actual act. That it would amount to nothing but a repeat of circumstances lived in this life. This was long before I even considered ideas like karma and reincarnation. Later when I familiarized myself those ideas, my own perspective made even more sense.

Though it's not a new concept.

The Hindu also knows that death must come naturally, in its own course, and that suicide only accelerates the intensity of one's karma, bringing a series of immediate lesser births and requiring several lives for the soul to return to the exact evolutionary point that existed at the moment of suicide, at which time the still-existing karmic entanglements must again be faced and resolved.

www.himalayanacademy.com...

Can suicide be a part of a person's karma? A search gave me an article, a decent read, and here's a snippet.

A person might not necessary commit suicide - as his karma might not necessary substitute other events that lead to suicide. Let us think of these "events" on the most basic level - as the contemplation of suicidal thoughts. If one is by nature very pessimistic about his life, then, we can say his negative suicidal karmic force of habit might be strong - meaning he is likely to contemplate suicide again and again. This is not an endless force - all forces either maintain, fade away or strengthen in time (the law of impermenence).

www.4ui.com...

Now suicide was a common practice among the Japanese, who are predominantly Buddhist mixed with their traditional Shinto. It was often instigated as a matter of maintaining honor. Where this fits in with their karmic beliefs, I don't know and wasn't able to find any direct information.

I've also heard that fire is believed to relieve one of their karma. Though this stems from what I believe were the false reports of Buddhist monks setting themselves on fire in protest of the Vietnam war.

Here I believe is the answer.

As one of the great Zen masters, Dzogchen, said, you do not create karma by committing suicide. You create karma from the way you commit suicide. We know that all reactions, all karma, all momentum, whatever you want to call it, comes from the intention behind the act.

www.salon.com...

I'm curious to know what others who have a belief in karma and reincarnation think of suicide from that standpoint. I understand that many believe it to be inherently wrong, but I think that point of view is well understood.

The question I am most interested in: Is suicide a karmic reset button?

For anyone wondering, this is not a cry for help on my part, though I am inspired by fear. I stated my beliefs on suicide in the opening of the post. But the fact is, I've had three dreams/visions of my suicide, one that was particularly haunting to this moment. This was within a series of personal dreams/visions that have largely come true. Though I will continue to view it as a choice over the next several months, I'm afraid that sometimes the choice is between 1 and 1.

[edit on 18-3-2009 by TravelerintheDark]

reply to post by TravelerintheDark


So, the manner in which you commit suicide. I don't get it. Is it gun or pills? or is it despair or enlightenment? Are you delving at the notion that a moment before the suicide you must be still and at peace?

I have lived on a farm. I know when we shot a steer it had to be calm and eating its cud, otherwise the meat would be bad.

Kind of like that?



[edit on 18-3-2009 by pluckynoonez]

Suicide is part of the domination of the astral world. Entities in this sphere (dead people) manipulate thoughts that are coming to the lower mental of humans. They are distorting the light energy (thought) that originates from the higher mental plane.
So, suicide is not karma's reset button. Most suicides are directly linked to traumas, or very difficult emotional distress. These events are triggers to thoughts, and they are for experiment purposes (testing our emotivity).
I see karma as a program, and the code of that program needs to be bent in order to achieve awareness. And with time, when full consciousness kicks in, we can delete the program.

reply to post by pluckynoonez


I guess what I'm looking to know from others is their perspective on whether karma can be released through suicide or if one is simply doomed to repeat their life circumstances again.

I personally believe that one who commits suicide is likely to repeat their life circumstances again. Much like hitting a reset button.

Though apparently some cultures see it otherwise depending on the circumstances.

If you're inquiring about what I personally saw, it's not really important. Suffice it to say, it was unpleasant. And something I'll avoid if at all possible. It isn't something I want to do.

Which is why I'm asking this as a question for pure discussion only that has no bearing on my personal beliefs or choices.

[edit on 18-3-2009 by TravelerintheDark]

[edit on 18-3-2009 by TravelerintheDark]

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark
reply to post by pluckynoonez

 

I guess what I'm looking to know from others is their perspective on whether karma can be released through suicide or if one is simply doomed to repeat their life circumstances again.

Karma is not released by suicide. On the contrary, you have to come back again, and relive the experience that brought you to that act.
The biggest problem we face is the domination of our mind. We need to free our mind from all domination and influences. (memory of the human race)

Edit: i guess i did not understand the "reset" in your original post. But the never ending story of dying and being reborn, and dying again, and coming back has to stop. Only full consciousness will bring mankind to freedom and an end to domination.




[edit on 18-3-2009 by teklordz]

Originally posted by teklordz
I see karma as a program, and the code of that program needs to be bent in order to achieve awareness. And with time, when full consciousness kicks in, we can delete the program.

Thank you for that response. I see it largely the same way. And so that's what lead me to the idea. I do understand the circumstances surrounding suicide very well. Though that isn't what I mean.

I suppose my view is that life as a whole is trauma, and that part of the purpose of we as individuals is to find a way of dealing with that trauma. Suicide being a way of not dealing with the trauma, I view it as essentially an error in the program, so to speak. And so it must be run again.

I like the thought about the manipulation of ideas by entities. Rather like a bad filter. I've never put it that way before, but it's something I can relate to.

edited to add: From your second post above, I think we largely agree.

[edit on 18-3-2009 by TravelerintheDark]

Originally posted by teklordz
The biggest problem we face is the domination of our mind. We need to free our mind from all domination and influences. (memory of the human race)

I'd like to know your personal approach to freeing a mind from domination. Meditation, perhaps?

It's an interesting thought that I've never quite heard, but, as I said, one I can relate to through personal experience. Very long, very painful experiences. I've worked diligently for release from those experiences, but find that circumstances in my life have left me largely defenseless. I've made great strides, but I'm still struggling.

As to any questions from anyone regarding my mental health, I can only respond that I've been 'crazy'. And, believe it or not, there is a difference between being mentally ill and what I'm talking about, though I've found direct relationships from one to the other. It may well be fine line, but it does exist.

reply to post by TravelerintheDark


Well, there are universal laws I think we can all agree. Here are some when you work with children with autism.

My mentor did something radical, painfully simple, yet radical to everyone else.

Here's what she did, she combined ABA and cognitive development into a model in order to work with children with autism. Now, aside from the fact that that model did not include manding ad nauseam, I do not know--and is my only gripe with the model...

Before I get too far ahead.

ABA is Applied Behavior Analysis (Skinner and those folks)
Cognitive Development is how children learn (Paiget, Vygotsky, those fellows).
Manding is, essentially, requesting (50 mands to mastery before adding any other language like "hello" or "thank you" or even "I want").

(A side note, if you were struggling with a language, as children with autism do, "I want..." is venom to the developing mind trying to acquire that language, and it infuriates me to no end how some teachers make these kids build sentences when the data shows that 50 mands to mastery is essential first and foremost...but I digress.)

So if there are universal laws, such as aforementioned, as is not stepping on a little kitten's head--being a "no-no" (a universal law)--and if I was God (ha!), adhering to such laws(I would, I promise....), I would choose compassion and heal the person/soul.

God is not Mommy Dearest. There is no portion of cold steak on the kitchen table in the morning.

(So, yeah, there are a lot of teaching models out there that are strict ABA. And what is disappointing is the soul use of ABA in a teaching model gives no leeway for a child. So, as far as strict ABA being applied to the afterlife, I think God is a little more kind than that.)





[edit on 18-3-2009 by pluckynoonez]

reply to post by pluckynoonez


A wonderful post. Thank you.

I agree. I like to believe that the Universe (read: God) is an organism that functions on the principles of love and healing. And so I might have answered the question personally just by thinking on that for a moment.

[edit on 18-3-2009 by TravelerintheDark]

Originally posted by TravelerintheDark

Originally posted by teklordz
I see karma as a program, and the code of that program needs to be bent in order to achieve awareness. And with time, when full consciousness kicks in, we can delete the program.

I suppose my view is that life as a whole is trauma, and that part of the purpose of we as individuals is to find a way of dealing with that trauma. Suicide being a way of not dealing with the trauma, I view it as essentially an error in the program, so to speak. And so it must be run again.

[edit on 18-3-2009 by TravelerintheDark]

Hi there, I have always felt that it was people's behavior that traumatised me, I never saw life as the problem, so have I contemplated my own death, when everything you are and have is taken away by someone else... I was a child when I though of suicide, as an adult I can protect myself better and I have taken enough punches to see this through the end! Your thread has a nice perspective on this topic

[edit on 20-3-2009 by HulaAnglers]

reply to post by HulaAnglers


Trauma is a rather harsh word, isn't it. But what I meant by that is that life is a series of conflicts that at times can bruise the spirit. From birth to death we chase the things we need not only to survive, but the things we desire. And life by its nature is a destructive force that consumes life to maintain itself. But from the destruction space is created for new growth as we stumble and fall, fight and fear, love and dream.

That means I don't see life as a negative. Without the traumas of life there would be no learning or healing, no intent or purpose. It's our struggles, to me, that make life worth living sometimes.

Thanks for your contribution, I found your thread on 2010 to be highly informative and I appreciate your opinion here.

[edit on 20/3/09 by TravelerintheDark]

Traveller,
What many forget when experiencing difficult times, thoughts and feelings in life, especially if they are persistent and habitual is the true nature of Suicidal feelings.

I am pretty sure from your posts on ATS you are not the type of person who would purposefully hurt or be violent to others. You seem a gentle, though if due to your circumstances strong to, soul.

Would you ever be able to Murder and take the life of another person who is a good person?

You have to much respect and love for others to do this or think about it much.

However when events and such like, deep subconscious patterning creates feelings of dislike for the self, hating because that is what it truly is the self. Often due to events and actions, words by others in our lives, we have every right to be angry as such and have strong emotions on it, though often the good people cant externalise that anger, which is good and more evolved than most, but if we also dont release it, it builds and builds and we internalise it on ourselves. The balance is lost, we start thinking more of others than we do of our own self worth.

Suicide is just internalised anger, and to be blunt Murder, though of a much lesser type indeed. A murderer is a much more troubled and dark act than suicide is, and the Karma is much heavier indeed. However to kill one self is also to kill the divine in us, even if we cant see that divine and goodness as it is clouded by the emotions created usually by others, and bad experiences in this life.

If we are able to love ourselves more when we have these thoughts, and start to see them as a blessing, any life that leads one to want to take ones own life is usually because we have a lot of negative emotional and circumstantial karma manifesting. If we can see it for that, or if of a differant faith see it as a test from God, it truly is wonderful as it gives us the opportunity to grow past this, experience the bad things and face them with Love of oneself and joy that so much bad karma is being burned away, whilst not creating any new bad karma!

To be positive and strong in the face of adversity turns a bad Karmic debt into a good Karma for the future.

Try my friend to love yourself as much as you do others. You are as important and equal and worthy. See the blessings of this life that you are considering the reasons behind these experiences and the causal effects of our actions, and see that in your life you have the opportunity to turn a cold hard stone into a brilliant diamond in the future, or a tombstone, the choice is yours ultimately, you can sow the seeds now, and soon roses will be smelling fragrant and blossiming, attracting bumble bees from the manure heap of negative experiences below.

Also never think it is all spiritual sometimes Depression and such thoughts feelings can be a simple chemical imbalance and not any strange entities etc,

Infact about 80-90% of the time, and so do go and get some blood chem and hormone tests done. Hypnotherapy is good to stop deep seated negative beliefs and habits we have from getting stronger and lasting longer, though make sure they are a "Clinical" one 5-10 sessions could change your life beyond all measure.

A good thing I find is to make sure every day you do something to help someone else, even an random act of kindness, and also do at least one thing to make yourself happy as long as it is positive.

Love and Light to you

Elf.

Thank you, Elf for your compassion and kindness. I'd like to assure that I don't have any intention of setting down my load just yet, though it can be grimly heavy at times, and I'm frankly tired much of the time anymore. But not done yet.

I've been down the chemical/medical road too, and it was a great help to me when I needed it.

As someone who has craved death for a very long time I will tell you this.

When your done you will be allowed to move on, ending the game early just means you'll have to come back when you remember why you came here in the first place.

I can see certain types of selfless-suicides as being fulfillment of your mission but I doubt there is a clean way to kill yourself intentionally.

PErsonally the thought of suicide being beneficial to ones soul bothers me.

I think it does great harm to kill yourself, spiritually that is, your on earth in this physical body to learn and grow. If you werent meant to be here in this physical world as a being than you wouldnt be here would you? Suicide will only set you back farther in your souls path to become one with all.

I have wanted to kill myself and others-but I got over it.
That was when I was older.
I realize now that I am judged collectively my suicide will only bring grief to my direct constituents.
Our time here is short the only way out is a race..

"Difficult" times are very positive, because they are tests and we can learn many things with them.

According to some kardecists, if you "press the reset button" through suicide, there's a chance that you get back on the same game and your character will have disabilities. By the way, It can't be proven, since we forgot all about our past lives. And they talk about the immortality of the soul at least since Socrates.

So I prefer to live life and gain some experience points.

Here is a thought...

You sound sincere when you say you don't believe suicide is the answer, and that you have felt this since you were a child.

Perhaps this is evidence that you have lived this before.
This life IS the reliving of LAST life...or lives.
Coming into this life you were able to bring the knowledge of the lesson learned and the determination to endure and see this life through.

It is not that next life you will relive the pain, it is that this life you have succeeded.





[edit on 7-4-2009 by GuyverUnit I]

Let me go into more detail about my previous posts.

*note: these words are from personnal experience

First, we need to know (not believe) that thoughts do not originate from our physical mind.

Second, we need to know that those thoughts are manipulated by the astral world, and the reason is to be tested in our emotivity (Earth is one of the schools for the souls).

In order to know these first 2 points, you need 2 things.
- sufficient experience of the soul
- awareness thru conscious experiences

After a few experiences, you become aware of the game being played on your mind. The great Cosmic lie is the manipulation of the mind, to keep mankind under the power of the Astral world.

When you start "knowing" the game being played, they start to use other people around you to test you even more.

Ultimately, when you have a very high level of consciousness, you cannot be manipulated by the Astral world anymore.

But you still have one obstacle.

The domination of the entities of the higher mental plane, wich oversees and controls all of the physical and Astral spheres.

These entities are our cosmic doubles, or if you prefer, our source. (The light) When you are ready, the connection to the source is reactivated and you start telepathic communication (thoughts) with your source (double).

Now, if we come back to the subject at hand, suicide is the direct result of a manipulation of thought (by Astral entities, dead people) wich is caused by trauma, or very bad understanding of an event. Someone who is aware of the game being played on the mind would never consider suicide as an option.

The goal of the Astral world is to bring back mankind to their sphere, because they don't want to loose their monopoly on the human race.
Dead people are like dead memories and the only way for them to feel a sense of vitality is to connect to the mind of the incarnated souls.

The words i have just written may seem occult to some readers, so that is why you cannot believe what is written in these lines, you have to know it. You have to experience it in order to be sure. I cannot transpose my experiences to others for it would become a philosophy.










[edit on 7-4-2009 by teklordz]

I will give you my 2 cents why it is futile – in certain cases- to kill yourself in the sphere of spiritual enlighten;
There is a thing that the Zen Masters, Yogi, Monks, and Western mystics (Christian or Sufi) calls the pointedness (as your entire forces merges in one point) of life. This thing is the achievement of one life’s realization of the force that emits the entire universe (I will not go now and tell you what is this force and what the name of it, this is left for each of us to figure out and not to be tolled).
Many people have achieved it through meditations, prayers, arts, politics, humanism, doesn’t matter what is your tool to gain this truth what matter is that you try in searching for this truth because in all of us without exception we have a spark that will ignite in time of great joy or misery.
Now death will not bring you this truth, only life can. It doesn’t matter if you kill yourself or not, what matter is that you have found the truth in living your life here and now.
In the mountains of the Himalaya, Scientist has found a Tibetan monk mummified alone and dated from 400 to 500 years back. His posture was very intriguing. To short the story; he as killed himself. Why? People assume that he had gained so much in this life that the plain of existence that we so love here didn’t bring him anything more so he had to go. The other very particular stuff is that his body was mummified without help through his long meditation process.
I will say this; karma is what you make of it and not a set of rules or engagements that you need to go through. Is only one truth and you have to found it if you want to gain more spiritual energy, whatever you do is for this purposes, consciously or unconsciously.
Kacou