Your neighbor doesn't owe you a dime

Originally posted by disgustedbyhumanity
Currency is great, banks are great ...

What? Fiat currency is evil, and so are banks. I swear, those two things had to have been invented by Satan himself.

One reason why we have such a trade deficit is because we trade fiat funny money for real commodities and labor. We are not exchanging value for value, we are exchanging promissory notes for real value, and that is what has gotten us into the trouble we have today.

And banks, well, what a jack that is. They print up paper with ink on it and loan it out, and we have to pay it back with blood, sweat, and tears .. our labor. We're CHUMPS! Most people work hard all week, and what do they have to show for it at the end of each week? A load of worthless paper with ink on it that ain't even good for wiping our butts with. Fiat money allows the banks to STEAL your wealth.

Think about this. Imagine twenty years ago you earned maybe $5 for an hour of labor, enough for buy a gallon of milk and 5 loaves of bread. Now, you tell me, what they hell has happened to that hours worth of wages I worked for 20 years ago, why can't I still exchange that $5 for the same today? Where the hell did my wealth go to? Who jacked my my labor?

Sorry, banks are a scam, and you've been brainwashed into thinking they are not. And, fiat money is CRAP! We need a currency that IS as valuable as it's face value, and one that can't be jacked with or stolen or devalued! If we were paid in gold for that hour of labor 20 years ago, I'm sure I'd be able to buy that gallon of milk and 5 loaves of bread today. Fiat money is a ripoff, as well as bank, and our government. We're all chump sucker slaves controlled by the banks and government. I say, lets have revolution and take back our lives and wealth!!!

reply to post by David9176


If China stops buying our bonds the Fed Reserve will buy them. They have all but said that already. And they will buy them at very low rates. The fed is really just a counting machine absent the skim they take each year from our debt.

If not we will just print our own money. The goverment willl always be able to come up with money one way or another. How much it is worth is another thing., but the destruction in asset values means we can print a bunch without having those effects.

This whole thing is a tough subject and it is tough to formulate exact solutions because so much is unkown. But I do know that Americans, if they know what is good for them, should welcome attemps to stave off collapse. the major reform comes afterwards when big changes will not have such a profound effect. You have to keep the faith. Give it some time. Obama wants the best for you and your neighbor.

Originally posted by disgustedbyhumanity
If China stops buying our bonds the Fed Reserve will buy them. They have all but said that already. And they will buy them at very low rates.

Buy them with WHAT? More fiat money?

Sounds like the business to be in is selling paper and ink.

reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity

Give it some time. Obama wants the best for you and your neighbor.

Time may not be a luxury we have...that's what I'm afraid of. I don't agree with much of what Obama is doing right now as i think it's going to make the situation much worse..as i said before...big government is not the answer. I just don't understand how people think we can spend our way out of our spending problem.

Just stop it. This is a major reason why people are losing confidence in the system...they see the monstrous debt...and the spending...and they wonder how in the world it's going to be paid back.

So in turn...we all cut back..try to pay off our debts...instead of making them worse...while our government does the exact opposite and puts the pedal to the floor on spending taxpayer money that doesn't exist yet.

reply to post by Divinorumus


Until "they" care it will be the government/our job. There is oppression I fear you are unaware of. "They" (the poor, jobless, hungry, uneducated Americans) don't know how to rise up. WE have to care for eachother, and while that may sound like socialism to you, it is a possible key to socio-economic equality and stability. The poor can't shoulder the responsibility, they are burried. Bad debts and banking practices are really an indication of a bigger problem: social bankruptcy. There is no pawn shop to get us out of that one.

reply to post by David9176


Thats what you don't get. We don't have a spending problem any longer. We have a debt problem. Eventually this needs to be monetized or written off. Writing it off, will mean the end of the American economy, and most likely your current job and any job you could get after that. Monetizing gives us a chance to rebuild and if we do it right, making back all the money the goverment invested. The goverment is intervening because there is no one else left to do so. I swear you people are going to ruin this country because you won't come to grips with reality.

Originally posted by Torsion girl
... and while that may sound like socialism to you,

I call it socialism when it is mandatory, and there is a threat of incarceration if you do not comply.

Aside from what I may sound like most of the time, I am a very compassionate and caring person. My problem is I do not like authority! (and that is putting it mildly)

We can do these things ourselves, folks. Right now, I do not need to worry about my starving neighbor, because I "gave at the office", via my paycheck taxes (well, not really any longer, as I'm mostly retired now, but you know what I mean). I do not need to feel anything for my neighbor if they should loose their job or become ill, because the government has taken my charity dollars from me and is handling the problem for me. Of course, I can bet you I could do better and accomplish more with them dollars in my hands instead of theirs.

I really do feel for the elderly and the children that suffer because of economic disadvantages. But, I am not empowered to do as much as I could to help, because government has assumed that responsibility on my behalf, and WITHOUT my permission.

And, this is what angers a lot of people too, particularly when you see career breeders our there living on welfare collecting money for simply having babies. That option of existence, that breeding career, wouldn't exist if they had to come directly to me for them dollars. In fact, the government should give me a coupon in exchange for those welfare dollars they take from us which I can use to phone up someone living on them welfare dollars to come over and clean my bathroom and do my laundry for me. Of course, that won't fly .. they would call that slavery, having to work for those dollars like the rest of us do.

Seriously, we can fix all this ourselves if we could get the government totally out of it. We are a compassionate species, but we no longer have that right to be compassionate, because the government has taken over that responsibility from us, and that is the mindset we live with today ~ we don't need to do anything about it, because THAT is governments job now. And that should STOP! Put the responsibility back where it belong - upon OURSELVES!

reply to post by David9176


True and we shouldn't all expect handouts. We don't deserve any and we aren't entitled to any but on the other hand, the government really doesn't need to take more than 10% of my income no matter how much I make and if I fall below a certain income level they should give it all back to me! The government doesn't deserve and isn't entitled to anything more than that. Even with that level of diminished income we would still have the worlds best equiped and technologically advanced army, navy and airforce and would still be able to govern effectively.

reply to post by Divinorumus


It is good that you can recognize your distain for authority as a problem. It most certainly is. The same is true for your narrow-minded views of the American reality. I don't think you understand that there is no system in place to help the poor help themselves. Of course we have people that abuse the system, (I think "carrer breeder" may overstate the mass reality, and is a minute sector), but that does not mean the govenment should pull the rug out. You seem more angry than thoughtful, and more wistful than logical. Real solutions consider possible outcomes.

Originally posted by David9176
reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity

 

Give it some time. Obama wants the best for you and your neighbor.

Time may not be a luxury we have...that's what I'm afraid of. I don't agree with much of what Obama is doing right now as i think it's going to make the situation much worse..as i said before...big government is not the answer. I just don't understand how people think we can spend our way out of our spending problem.

Just stop it. This is a major reason why people are losing confidence in the system...they see the monstrous debt...and the spending...and they wonder how in the world it's going to be paid back.

So in turn...we all cut back..try to pay off our debts...instead of making them worse...while our government does the exact opposite and puts the pedal to the floor on spending taxpayer money that doesn't exist yet.

Well if we are referring to the CURRENT problem - derivatives and speculation created the bubble and burst the bubble. This was perpetrated by the private sector with the help of a anti regulatory white house... So in essence the government had the authority to stop much of this, but the particular configuration of GOV let this happen - failure to recognize this aspect is well.... All this hatred towards the GOV and the lazy peons is very interesting though considering the fact that the private sector elites were the ones running the game, cooking the books, sheltering actuals and defaulting on capital minimums.

Take out the government and you will be left with elites gone wild - Walmart for all - and for all a good walmart job!

This one sided fervor reminds me of the rush to go to IRAQ - the fact of the matter is that the SOLUTION many of you are calling for will leave us to the sharks, who cannot be voted out. God Help Us