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Your neighbor doesn't owe you a dime

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posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 01:10 PM
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Originally posted by its bologna
Our economy runs on debt.

That is the problem that needs to be eliminated, along with fake fiat worthless funny money.

Honestly, the only thing I want any government to do is to protect us from those that think wealth is created by taking it from another. I do not want any government overseeing any other aspect of my life! PERIOD! I do not like collective interference in MY life. "I" will take care of "my" life for myself. I do not need anyone to create a job for me. I do not need anyone to provide me with free food. I do not need anyone to provide me with free health insurance. I do not need anyone to handle my retirement plans for me. I do not want ANYONE IN MY FACE telling me what to do and how to do it, in so far as my life is concerned. And, I do not want SOCIALISTS telling me they need ME in order for THEIR life plans to succeed. The whole freaking human race can go jump in a lake for all I care, and they can take their debt ridden society of blood sucking monkeys off my back with them!!! Gawd, I hate humons! (ha, well not all of ya'll, just the nanny loving monkeys that think wealth is created by robbing Peter to take care of Pauls sorry inept incapable lame lazy excuseful crybaby ass)




posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 01:17 PM
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Originally posted by Divinorumus
Honestly, the only thing I want any government to do is to protect us from those that think wealth is created by taking it from another. I do not want any government overseeing any other aspect of my life! PERIOD! I do not like collective interference in MY life. "I" will take care of "my" life for myself. I do not need anyone to create a job for me. I do not need anyone to provide me with free food. I do not need anyone to provide me with free health insurance. I do not need anyone to handle my retirement plans for me. I do not want ANYONE IN MY FACE telling me what to do and how to do it, in so far as my life is concerned. And, I do not want SOCIALISTS telling me they need ME in order for THEIR life plans to succeed. The whole freaking human race can go jump in a lake for all I care, and they can take their debt ridden society of blood sucking monkeys off my back with them!!! Gawd, I hate humons! (ha, well not all of ya'll, just the nanny loving monkeys that think wealth is created by robbing Peter to take care of Pauls sorry inept incapable lame lazy excuseful crybaby ass)


You don't need anyone to create a job for you? I suppose you have your own company, then. And it magically makes money out of thin air? At some point you depend on someone to make your living. So spare me with the you don't need anyone stuff. It's silly and a lie.

The crisis we have right now is because of a comparitively small number of people who made mistakes. And if you don't think that you beloved capitalism had something to do with it, you might want to think again.

I think unbridled capitalism is just as bad as absolute socialism. And if you think what is going on here is absolute Socialism you might want to read up on it.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul? Isn't that what the "capitalism is the only way" banks have done to every citizen in this country? My tax monies went to pay for their bailout and yet they lowered my savings interest rate and raised my credit card interest rate. What is that??? Redistribution of wealth. They took my money to pay themselves. But happy, happy joy joy..that is capitalism at its finest.



[edit on 7-3-2009 by its bologna]



posted on Mar, 7 2009 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by its bologna
You don't need anyone to create a job for you? I suppose you have your own company, then. And it magically makes money out of thin air? At some point you depend on someone to make your living. So spare me with the you don't need anyone stuff. It's silly and a lie.

Yes, I do own my own business (although I rarely work there much any more, those that want a job keep it running for me). And yes, it does manufacture WEALTH (although not MONEY). And yes, we all depend upon each other to trade with to get the things we need. But again, my point was we DO NOT NEED a government or any other kind of collective organization to be involved in ANY of that. Let each and all manage their own lives.

The ONLY thing I need the government to do is to PROTECT us from those that would like to victimize and rob us as a source of obtaining THEIR wealth.

Too many people believe the way to create prosperity and wealth is to TAKE IT or BORROW IT from another, and this is just pure stupidity, and it's why our economy is so debt ridden. Debt is NOT necessary nor required for a healthy economy .. in fact it is counter productive and highly wasteful. When wealth is desire, it should be CREATED, not STOLEN nor BORROWED.

Let EVERYONE manage their own lives! That is all I ask of any government: Leave us all alone to take care of and negotiate all of our own life issues on our own among ourselves, and watch our backs for us so the socialist mindset monkey don't jack'n'rob us blind! I do not need a nanny state dictatorship in order to get what I need and want out of life.



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by Divinorumus
 


Well, hmmmm. No government? No social services? No SSI, medicaide/medicare, welfare, foodstamps, unemployment?? The ideas are so illogical there can be no application. It is great that you are so good at looking out for you, but if we don't start looking out for eachother there will be even bigger problems down the road. You must be the kind of person who sees the starving children in Africa and is unaffected. It does matter, and without the government, the starvation rate in this country would rise, but then, you'd watch your neighbor starve?

I like your signature, it is key to not let your brains fall out, but what of opening that heart a little bit?



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 08:27 PM
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[edit on 8-3-2009 by Torsion girl]



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by Divinorumus

Originally posted by its bologna
Our economy runs on debt.

That is the problem that needs to be eliminated, along with fake fiat worthless funny money.

Honestly, the only thing I want any government to do is to protect us from those that think wealth is created by taking it from another. I do not want any government overseeing any other aspect of my life! PERIOD! I do not like collective interference in MY life. "I" will take care of "my" life for myself. I do not need anyone to create a job for me. I do not need anyone to provide me with free food. I do not need anyone to provide me with free health insurance. I do not need anyone to handle my retirement plans for me. I do not want ANYONE IN MY FACE telling me what to do and how to do it, in so far as my life is concerned. And, I do not want SOCIALISTS telling me they need ME in order for THEIR life plans to succeed. The whole freaking human race can go jump in a lake for all I care, and they can take their debt ridden society of blood sucking monkeys off my back with them!!! Gawd, I hate humons! (ha, well not all of ya'll, just the nanny loving monkeys that think wealth is created by robbing Peter to take care of Pauls sorry inept incapable lame lazy excuseful crybaby ass)



Its funny I am just about as firm and pissed while being on the other end of the spectrum. I am tired of getting ripped off on my bills, fee here there there here, every month for some technicality or other BS fine print. I am tired the my father has to take drugs that cost a million and half dollars a year to treat his cancer - all those pills wouldn't even fit in a shoe box - thats fiat...

I don't want sociopaths to tell me charging $30,000 for 30 pills is OK
- and Gawd I hate human too... I am tired of having to drive three miles to access my money in an ATM free of charge. I am tired of spending my tax dollars on IRAQ...

OUR two views are why there will never be peace -



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by Torsion girl
Well, hmmmm. No government? No social services? No SSI, medicaide/medicare, welfare, foodstamps, unemployment??

You are assuming that WE can't take care of these things locally ourselves.

I do not like the idea of some government without representation being in charge of my charitableness. I would like to have some approval authority before MY money is given to another.

We don't need these governments services. Heck, if you are hungry and live next door to me, come knock on my door, I'll help (yeah, I'll feed you, but in exchange you WILL listen to my advise on what you should do next to support yourself, yourself!). But if you are the tax jack man and you think you should be in charge of my charitable dollars, I'm gonna kick you square and center where it will hurt the most .. given half the chance to do so!

And, in so far as your comment regarding me helping starving children, I would love to send all my tax/charity dollars to feed the REAL POOR and STARVING, which do not live HERE in the USA, the land of tremendous opportunity, if one merely got up off their lazy asses and did for themselves instead of bitching that someone else should create and offer them a job!!!



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by David9176
 


I spend 9 months a year or more on a boat in the gulf of mexico making sure You people get electricity and gas. I sacrifice my family to make sure they have a home, food, & clothes on their backs. I don't owe anyone a thing except for my own family. I am so fed up with these entitlement loosers because they will not be happy till I am spending 365 days a year away from my family with them barely able to eat. I had to shell out 25K in federal taxes just to keep the war machine and the welfare machine running. I hope the system crashes to the ground because now I have been discarded in the economy just like every other piece of trash that the PTB do not need anymore. I will call them out the same people that cry for social justice are the same people that put me into bondage to a system of slavery. They look at me with envy at the house I pay 1,100 dollars a month for and the sportscar I drive. I for one look at them with envy because I see the 2 or 3 over flowing carts of food that comes with a section 8 house with free electricity. I despise people like that because I got to work my fingers to the bone and constantly worry about my next check well these wastes of sperm sit around drinking beer with not a care in the world...



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by mental modulator
I am tired the my father has to take drugs that cost a million and half dollars a year to treat his cancer - all those pills wouldn't even fit in a shoe box - thats fiat...

Well, eliminate patents then. I despise patents! Each and every discovery should belong to all of humanity.



OUR two views are why there will never be peace -

Instead of thinking that the solution is to enslave your neighbor to help you pay for what YOU need, why not think of another solution that puts the burden where it belongs ~ on those that have the need. Don't be trying to put your problems and issues and burdens onto others, most people have enough to worry about in life without their neighbors jumping onto their backs too. Socialism is immoral, particularly this whole health care thang. We seem to live in a world now where everyone seems to think they are entitled to live forever .. once they can get their neighbor to pick up the tab for all those costs to do so. When it's my time to die and I can't take care of myself for myself any longer, I will go away and die, and I promise to not make you or your children pick up the tab for keeping my ass alive until I'm 100+ years old.



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 09:45 PM
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reply to post by David9176
 


David we are all angry about what our goverment and big business has done. The question is the best way to change things around. In order to decide on a course you must first identify what each course will do to the economy and the poeple as a whole. You also have to understand the scope of the problem.

One solution is no goverment interference at all. If that was the case then nearly all financial institutions would go broke due to busted derivatives. Annuities would be worthless, bank deposits gone, almost everything of any value would get wiped out. All savings would evaporate. Virtually no one would have a job. Almost everyone would lose there home to a broke bank in recievership. At that point the goverment would have to act as you can't have an economy without money. At that point the cost would be way way beyond what they are doing now.

Or you can try to patch it up until you can fix it. As you patch it less deravitives go bad. Payments get modified to max the returns to banks vs. foreclosure. You allow the banks some time to get their act together. Th peoeple get there act together and start making good. Evenually asset values rebound and the goverment gets most of the money back. They always have in the past.

As for workers, due to technology and to a lesser degree outsourcing, we only need 50 million workers to do what 125 million used to do. Unfortunately, that creates the need for many more jobs which have not materialized. Americans were suppose to turn to "service" jobs, but we arenow at the point that most folks can't afford those services. While opportunity exist for individuals to make it, if everyone tried and obtained the skills to do so, very few would be able to make it, as there is simply not enough opportunity and not enough money for it to work. It is like getting blood out of a rock.

We need to accept that in order to keep somewhat normal employment we need to pay more, work shorter hours, allow benefits to accrue faster and allow people to retire at a much earlier age. There is just not enough work to fulfill the needs of Americans. I don't know what your field is , but if 1 million people wanted to get into it then most would not get jobs, those who have the jobs would get less pay due to the large available workforce and it just goes downhill from there.

One key to help achieve this is a weak dollar. A strong dollar means we pay less to import goods but it cost foriegners more to buy our goods. A weak dollar will put us more on a par with foreign countries eliminating some of the reasons for shipping jobs overseas. How do you get a weak dollar? You print more of them. But doesn't that cause inflation? It could in normal times, but we have much room to work. Worldwide 30 trillion or so dollars have been wiped out with the asset plunges. Thats why a few trillion more in circulation is not making the dollar go down or causing inflation (even in imports). A dollar is worth much more than it was a year ago because now there are much less of them. In order to have inflatrionary effects the goverment would have to print much much more money than they are printing now. I would go short of the 30 trillion but there is room for 10 trillion or so. With that you could wipe out debt of $100,00 for every American family and give money to those without debt.

Of course the key is to print that money ourselves, so that it doesn't require future generations to pay it back. That is really the nexus of our problem. They can't print enough money at this point to cause much inflation. They can however cause the dollar to drop, which of course isn't neccesarily the same.



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 09:52 PM
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Originally posted by Divinorumus

Originally posted by its bologna
You don't need anyone to create a job for you? I suppose you have your own company, then. And it magically makes money out of thin air? At some point you depend on someone to make your living. So spare me with the you don't need anyone stuff. It's silly and a lie.

Yes, I do own my own business (although I rarely work there much any more, those that want a job keep it running for me). And yes, it does manufacture WEALTH (although not MONEY). And yes, we all depend upon each other to trade with to get the things we need. But again, my point was we DO NOT NEED a government or any other kind of collective organization to be involved in ANY of that. Let each and all manage their own lives.

The ONLY thing I need the government to do is to PROTECT us from those that would like to victimize and rob us as a source of obtaining THEIR wealth.

Too many people believe the way to create prosperity and wealth is to TAKE IT or BORROW IT from another, and this is just pure stupidity, and it's why our economy is so debt ridden. Debt is NOT necessary nor required for a healthy economy .. in fact it is counter productive and highly wasteful. When wealth is desire, it should be CREATED, not STOLEN nor BORROWED.

Let EVERYONE manage their own lives! That is all I ask of any government: Leave us all alone to take care of and negotiate all of our own life issues on our own among ourselves, and watch our backs for us so the socialist mindset monkey don't jack'n'rob us blind! I do not need a nanny state dictatorship in order to get what I need and want out of life.


What happens when someone hasn't paid you? Or renigs on a contact, etc. Do you then take things into your own hands with guns blazing or do you count on the goverment to enforce the contract for you. Without the goverment to enforce/ arbitrate contracts then noone's business would be very secure. That is one very solid reason to have governing bodies.



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 10:04 PM
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Originally posted by disgustedbyhumanity
That is one very solid reason to have governing bodies.

Well sure, we need a government body to protect us, but I am totally against any government involvement in social engineering. Task the government with merely protecting us and maintaining peace and the judicial system, and to coordinate infrastructure projects. This idea that a government should be our nanny is just too much and crosses a line that I find intolerable. And, because our government has crossed that line and already gone way to far, I hope it crashes! I love America and most of her people, but I honestly hope our government fails horribly, along with all the banks. We don't need banks either. Fiat/fake/funny money is NOT the way to play life. Banks loan paper with ink printing on it in hopes of getting paid back with your blood, sweet, and tears, and THAT is simply immoral, wrong, and an enslavement. There are alternatives that most people haven't even contemplated or considered yet.



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 10:10 PM
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Government has to exist...i think we all know that it has to. There needs to be some guideline...a general creed to live by that everyone can abide by..and be equal from.

I just think it has to be as limited as possible...very limited....leaving the people the right to run their lives as they want....as long as it doesn't interfere with another's rights.

Big government cannot be stripped away overnight...it will be a long process...but it can be done.

There are other ways of doing things....the great minds of this country just need to use that brain power.

Even when times are terrible...such as the great depression was...the people in this country were still so much better off than so many other countries around the world. I think people forget that.



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 10:20 PM
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You are assuming that WE can't take care of these things locally ourselves.



NEWS FLASH: Unless you mean "WE" the ATS community, (in so far as we take care of the thinking part), there is no reason to believe that "WE" can "take care" of those "things" locally. Because of the definitions of the following terms:
WE: (American collactive) Scarred, scared, worried, fickle, strange, lazy, and distraught. Generally detached from the inter-workings of life, WE are the result of prior generations and our own convictions.
THINGS: The greater good. It is wonderful that you would feed a starving neighbor, a lot of people don't. WE stopped caring about that.
LOCALLY: I don't know a thing about where you live, it could be the kind of place where you know the mailman's name and shop at the butcher. (No objection to that). There are many Americans that don't live in towns/areas like that, and these places aren't capable of "taking care" of it. When the police force gets cut in the high crime areas because the high-crime area taxes can't cover it, there is a BIG problem with "taking care" of it.
OURSELVES: Brings us back to WE. Who we are as individuals, and who WE are as a collective are very different things. I am proud of you as an American, that you can care for yourself and others, as you have indicated. I also see that there are many who cannot. They will not be the ones reading this thread.



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by David9176
There are other ways of doing things....the great minds of this country just need to use that brain power.

Problem is, things use to be better, and everything is going in the wrong direction now.

When I was a young kids, I use to spend a good chunk of my summer vacation up on my grandparents farm. It was located in a small town in Northern Minnesota. I remember those days vividly, and how everyone lived. And, they didn't need much money. They bartered everything back then. My grandfather would bring milk to the town dairy, and in return he would get credit for cheese, pasteurized milk/cream, etc., and a wee bit of cash. And, he would bring eggs to the grocer, and receive credit for food items he did not produce, and if necessary, a wee bit of cash. Same with cattle and chicken and pigs. They needed very little FIAT MONEY to live upon. Everything was co-op back then, even their gas and oil was obtained via a co-op and bartering.

They were all pretty isolated from inflation and recessions and depressions and unemployment and the crazy fluctuating value of the dollar and other commodities back then. You could have built a brick wall around this town, and the only thing they would be hurting for would be fuel and oil for their machines. THIS is the way I want to live. Unfortunately, we are going in the opposite direction from all of this. And THAT makes me sad. And very angry!

Sorry, but so long as we keep going in the wrong direction, I have little hope that things will ever get better. Our only hope is to overthrow our government! And, you can tell them I said so, ha!



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 10:32 PM
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Originally posted by Divinorumus

Originally posted by disgustedbyhumanity
That is one very solid reason to have governing bodies.

Well sure, we need a government body to protect us, but I am totally against any government involvement in social engineering. Task the government with merely protecting us and maintaining peace and the judicial system, and to coordinate infrastructure projects. This idea that a government should be our nanny is just too much and crosses a line that I find intolerable. And, because our government has crossed that line and already gone way to far, I hope it crashes! I love America and most of her people, but I honestly hope our government fails horribly, along with all the banks. We don't need banks either. Fiat/fake/funny money is NOT the way to play life. Banks loan paper with ink printing on it in hopes of getting paid back with your blood, sweet, and tears, and THAT is simply immoral, wrong, and an enslavement. There are alternatives that most people haven't even contemplated or considered yet.


You fricking want mad max, either that or you have no idea what you are asking for. It sounds good maybeon the surface but the chaos it would unfold would not be worth it at all. Currency is great, banks are great, the problem is that they have been allowed to abuse us to the point where we have no choice but to stabalize them before we take more corrective action. And I beleive that is going to happen. The thing we have is America on life support. You can allow it to die but that solves nothing. We need to take the corrective actions to repair it and make it responible once again. It is going to take a bunch of money to do so, but if you don't do it now it will take much more money than it would otherwise.

If the crash that some of you want occurs, if this website is up still, I wonder how many of you will come back and say the govermnent should have done more.



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by Torsion girl
It is wonderful that you would feed a starving neighbor, a lot of people don't. WE stopped caring about that.

It's not that they have stopped carrying. Rather, it's not our responsibility any longer, not since the government has assumed that roll and collects our charity dollars from us for that purpose. I mean, how many people today actually help their own adult children, some of which may have had to turn to welfare instead of family and friends?

Seriously, there is no need for anyone to really be charitable today, because our government has assumed responsibility for that role. I of course do try to help beyond all that, by helping the elderly. Last xmas I played secret santa and gave away 6 envelopes containing $100 each to 6 different elderly ladies I saw in the grocery store that appeared VERY WORRIED about the price of food. I wish I could have done more, but I can't, because the government jacks those charity dollars from me, as they do to most of us.



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 10:37 PM
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reply to post by disgustedbyhumanity
 





You fricking want mad max,


Yikes...if so let's skip towards the end of the THIRD movie where there is hope for a better future!




If the crash that some of you want occurs,


I don't want our economy to fall apart, I know the pain it's going to bring to most of us. Unfortunately, it's unsustainable. We are holding on to something that can no longer exist. The government won't stop spending...all China has to do is quit buying our treasuries, and they will one day..once they realize that we will never get our spending under control.

I wish things were different...and i really hope that i'm wrong.

edit for typo



[edit on 8-3-2009 by David9176]



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by jkm1864
reply to post by David9176
 


I hope the system crashes to the ground because now I have been discarded in the economy just like every other piece of trash........... They look at me with envy at the house I pay 1,100 dollars a month for and the sportscar I drive. I for one look at them with envy because I see the 2 or 3 over flowing carts of food that comes with a section 8 house with free electricity. I despise people like that because I got to work my fingers to the bone and constantly worry about my next check well these wastes of sperm sit around drinking beer with not a care in the world...


The system crashing to the ground will deny you the oppertunity to continue your hard work in home and automobile ownership. If you really hate being a slave to such things, then don't do it, (ie: lower your standard of living). That dosen't mean you have to be on Sec. 8 and food stamps. Hate is an unrewarding and endless persuit. Give it up and start seeing things for what they are: different for everyone.



posted on Mar, 8 2009 @ 10:39 PM
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reply to post by Divinorumus
 


Are you advocating a debt system. Thats exactly what your Grandfather used. Instead of taking cash he took credit for future goods. Those goods were still denominated in cash terms, were they not? Cash is just a way of keeping track of credits, fiat or not.



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