Greyhound bus killer found not criminally responsible

Originally posted by starviego

Originally posted by mystiq
I believe that Li is part of the M Kultra MC program and that this sentence reflects the corruption at all levels. All these things are happening to increase security and insure an errosion or our rights.

I wouldn't be surprised if you are right. I wonder if this guy wasn't being dosed with a prozac-type drug, as he was reportedly depressed beforehand. Anyway didn't the cops start searching bus passengers in Canada right after this happened? That is always the acid test for a mind-control op.

Well I do admit that its interesting I can't find any info about his Li's blood test results. They would have tested his blood right? And yes they did search the passengers after it happened.

I know, I read this too a couple of days ago... I'm sickened to say the least.

What a cop out... so basically any religious nut job can go out and kill someone and all they have to do is say "god told me to"?



Forget that, put him out of his misery.

Not on the grounds that he needs to be punished...
... on the grounds that he's too defective and corrupted to be allowed in our race.

If "god" told him to kill, then let "god" sort him out.

man this sucks. all the juggalos want revenge for what he did. I do not think a "sane person" could behead a person on a bus though.

reply to post by ryckE


Oh hell yeah, that could happen any time. There needs to be motive though. Money? Power? Whatever. That's what separates the sane from those that aren't. You do something like this with NO motive, you're frickin nuts.

reply to post by djvexd


Please read my posts before putting words into my mouth. I never said, or assumed that this person, or any mentally ill person CHOOSES to behave like an animal.

What I have said, multiple times, is that in this case, whether he chose behave like an animal, whether he was consciously aware of his actions or not, is IRRELEVANT. This is my opinion on this particular case, with this particular person. I don't assume this guy chose anything, because to me it does not matter. This person can never be integrated into society safely, and it's completely illogical to spend anywhere from 100k to 200k a year, for the rest of his life, to keep his heart beating. What does it accomplish? What does it prove? Many plants will shed a limb that becomes infected with a disease before more harm comes to the plant. When a plant exhibits more common sense than human beings do, it's a sad, sad day.

You try to insinuate that I think we should round up every mentally ill person and execute them all.

@ intrepid...
I think we agree more than it may seem. For some reason, djvexd seems to think I simply have it in for the mentally ill.

reply to post by Unit541


I haven't put words in your mouth. But what I have done is extrapolate your belliefs. If you want to come down to it...is this a single and solitary case that you feel like this on? Because by your other posts it sounds like an overall philosophy. I haven't put anything into your mouth you haven't already said or eluded to. If you feel backed into a corner enough to claim I am putting words into your mouth then by all means clarify.

Ok, so he's not criminally responsible. Nonetheless, he better not ever see the light of day again. Lock him up.

Originally posted by djvexd
I'm sorry I have to agree to disagree with your use of the death penalty. Yes he poses a threat. Yes he is a tax burden. But can you seriously sit there and look someone in the eye and tell them that they NEED to die because of a mental defect and we can't trust them ?

This attitude bothers me greatly as well.

I'm mentally ill enough not to be of any use to society. I'm no danger to society as I am completely non-violent but I can not really function. I work when I can but in the last few years I've only been working for family. I am NOT however a drain on society as I get a yearly inheritance which I more or less live off.

If I didn't have family money I would be a COMPLETE drain on society. Using up its resources while producing nothing of consequence.

So. Should I be killing? I'm mentally ill and do nothing productive for society.

Vas

ps, that question is targeting Unit541 and Rook1545 but anyone can answer.


[edit on 5-3-2009 by Vasilis Azoth]

So, let's see, mental illness is irrelevant when it comes to the intent to commit a crime. Furthermore, all people who commit violent crimes because they are mentally ill should be executed without any questions asked because they cannot be rehabilitated and it's too expensive to care for them. Dare I ask why you are so sure that someone like this cannot be rehabilitated? Unless you have a crystal ball and can see into the future, a comment like this can only be based on the heinous nature of the crime which was committed. How relevant is that?

Why stop there? How about all of the mentally ill people who have made violent threats? Why don't we get rid of them too before they act on their impulses so we can make this world a safer place? How about those who are deformed and handicapped? They too are just a big waste of money to society. And maybe because of their frustration due to their illnesses, they too may one day snap and pose a danger to society. So, let's just get rid of them as well to prevent any future problems.

Now, who else can get rid of so they do not interfere with out little Utopia and they don't "waste" our money? How about the mentally retarded? How about those with Alzheimer's? How about those who have Autism? How about those who go out and get drunk, commit a crime and don't remember anything afterwards? Think of the possibilities not only for population control, but also creating a master race without illness. Wait a second, I think this was tried before.

It is not very difficult to see why there is such a stigma attached to mental illness. It is much easier for society to rid itself of a "problem" than to try understand and remedy it. The quick fix solution is the only solution for a society which lacks compassion and responsibility towards its fellow man. Bravo!

Originally posted by GoalPoster
Call me simple, or just plain old ignorant, but I think the system could have saved itself a whack of dough by simply noting the obvious when this incident occurred . . .

Then again, I guess a guy sitting on a greyhound bus doing his lumberjack impression on a neckstump of some unsuspecting victim all while singing the theme to Oklahoma! just might be sane.

Good thing we've got all those psychoanalysts around . . . maybe they can ply their craft with the 'economists' now and figure out that we may/maynot/are/might be soon in a recession/depression/economic slump.

I would just like to note that psychoanalysis is a process that takes a LONG time... it's not something that is used in the process of determining the sanity or mental illness of a person. It can be a process that cures mental illnesses however.

Either way, it is psychiatry and contemporary psychology with which you have your argument. Please, leave the Jung Loving psychoanalysts out of this...

reply to post by Unit541


Sssshhh...you are making WAY to much sense. You are letting your mind work too properly, let it be clouded by a bleeding heart. Because, like, logic can never compare to love, you know?

What I wouldn't give to make your opinions shared by the majority! Superman is never going to appear and save us (although if he did, the bleeding hearts would have him locked up quicker than spit), and we seem to be incapable of growing up and getting real. The things that do cause people to grow up and get real, tend to also burden them enough to be less focused on societal issues, leaving the choices to be made by those who have it easy to enough to have nothing better to worry about.


edit:

I also wanted to say thanks for the wolf analogy, it's a good one; you use simple logic that anyone can understand.

The fact that your detractors are somehow able to compare the elimination of known and proven threats to the killing off of people with MS just shows what you are up against though. Seriously, the only people who will ever understand the logic you've presented agreed with you already.



[edit on 5-3-2009 by maus80]

reply to post by starviego


The thing that most people are completely unaware of is that Mengele style M Kultra programs are in almost every area, city or rural, they're hidden behind many institutions and infrastructure that we take for granted. There are many who have been on these programs, and if you scratch the surface just a little bit you'll find hell underneath and figurative demons running it. No, this wasn't said in a religious way. Every time I see something unusual, such as woman who worked in a mental institution having 14 kids and being vilified for a political agenda, or a mass shooting at Marti Gra, I think, M Kultra. And see what the gains are for the neocons to promote this agenda.

I cannot for the life of me understand how this man is not put in jail. I dont care how insane a person is they need to be punished. Insanity is an excuse now and it pisses me off greatly. Anybody who murders somebody in cold blood is insane; should that mean they shouldnt be convicted or punished ?

If he's a risk to the other offenders in prison, put him in a confined space and throw away the key. Why should he get a second chance, the guy he decapitated doesnt. What a sad excuse of a human being and an even worse example of justice. Just brutal how a person that does such a despicable crime gets less time than a person like say.. Rick Simpson. All a bunch of BS!

[edit on 6-3-2009 by disfugured]

Originally posted by disfugured
I cannot for the life of me understand how this man is not put in jail. I dont care how insane a person is they need to be punished.

Because if he IS insane he needs to be in a mental facility. We are not capable of treating the mentally ill. I've seen it, it doesn't work for the inmate or the staff.

Logically he should be in a mental institution, plain and simple.

How does it make sense to put a person into a prison who could put other inmates and guards at risk by outbursts because he is not being treated properly.

Also, everyone seems to think a mental institution is a piece of cake compared to prison. A high security section of a mental institution is probably just like prison, if not worse...especially if you are in a ward with only highly disturbed patients.

Let's say you were a rancher that had many sheep and one of the sheep went crazy and decapitated another sheep, so you kill it. A little while later, another sheep goes crazy and kills a few of your sheep...so you kill it. This keeps happening, and instead of asking questions, or determining cause, prevention, etc. you just keep killing these sheep. Wouldn't you want somebody to take the crazy sheep in so that it can get treatment, and society can learn of warning signs/prevention methods for other crazy sheep in the midst. Especially if it was becoming more and more common on many ranches everywhere across the land.

Bad analogy...but the point has been made. This man will be investigated by many people, not simply treated. How do we stop this from happening in the future if we just killed these people or locked them away in prison?

Try walking a mile in his shoes. Imagine snapping back to reality and realizing what you've done. I wouldn't be surprised if this man kills himself.

And by the way, do the people who support the death penalty realize that it usually costs more then keeping a person in prison? Extra legal fees, etc. plus it can takes many years before they actually get killed anyway.

Originally posted by Nickmare
Logically he should be in a mental institution, plain and simple.

How does it make sense to put a person into a prison who could put other inmates and guards at risk by outbursts because he is not being treated properly.

Also, everyone seems to think a mental institution is a piece of cake compared to prison. A high security section of a mental institution is probably just like prison, if not worse...especially if you are in a ward with only highly disturbed patients.

Let's say you were a rancher that had many sheep and one of the sheep went crazy and decapitated another sheep, so you kill it. A little while later, another sheep goes crazy and kills a few of your sheep...so you kill it. This keeps happening, and instead of asking questions, or determining cause, prevention, etc. you just keep killing these sheep. Wouldn't you want somebody to take the crazy sheep in so that it can get treatment, and society can learn of warning signs/prevention methods for other crazy sheep in the midst. Especially if it was becoming more and more common on many ranches everywhere across the land.

Bad analogy...but the point has been made. This man will be investigated by many people, not simply treated. How do we stop this from happening in the future if we just killed these people or locked them away in prison?

Try walking a mile in his shoes. Imagine snapping back to reality and realizing what you've done. I wouldn't be surprised if this man kills himself.

And by the way, do the people who support the death penalty realize that it usually costs more then keeping a person in prison? Extra legal fees, etc. plus it can takes many years before they actually get killed anyway.

Sorry, I dissagree with what you say.

There should be a 'mental institute prison' built for these people then. Hypothetically I could go out and behead somebody now and claim I heard voices and guess what, I'll not get convicted of even second degree murder. I live in Canada now and have for ten years. He wouldnt have gotten much more than twenty years if he was charged with 1st degree if he were 'sane'.

[edit on 6-3-2009 by disfugured]

reply to post by disfugured

No offense but if you have ever been to a mental institute it is essentially a prison for those deemed to be threats. Violent people , or those convicted of violent outbursts generally are sedated and kept in solitary rooms until such time that the drugs, therapy or other methods show signs of working then they are release to general population rooms where they are monitored HEAVILY. People have this idea that a mental institute is this place where you can do whtever and eat Jello just for acting out a bit. This is far from the case. Please take the time and go to one of these facilities or talk to a healthcare professional who works in one.

Originally posted by djvexd
reply to post by disfugured

 

No offense but if you have ever been to a mental institute it is essentially a prison for those deemed to be threats. Violent people , or those convicted of violent outbursts generally are sedated and kept in solitary rooms until such time that the drugs, therapy or other methods show signs of working then they are release to general population rooms where they are monitored HEAVILY. People have this idea that a mental institute is this place where you can do whtever and eat Jello just for acting out a bit. This is far from the case. Please take the time and go to one of these facilities or talk to a healthcare professional who works in one.

Actually I've been to one, where my father works and the reason why I live in Canada. He works in Ponoka Alberta. For sure there are insane people and for sure there are insane people inside. I also noticed its not nearly as harsh as you think it is. These people have a games room, a fitness room, tv, and watch movies daily. They eat well and sleep in decent beds. Sure they get sedated and are evaluated to see if they're fit enough to be with the rest of the insane people most of which are there because family or even themselves addmitted them there and not because they even attempted to harm another nevermind decapitate a person. Many of them have attempted to hurt themselves. I of course dont work there and I'm a grown man, but my father still works there. The question is; have you ever stepped inside a mental institute? The one here in Alberta is nicer and more hospitable than a couple I've seen in the US. That being said, I dont like visiting there because I get an uneasy feeling being surrounded by insane people but Its by far a better place than prison.

Edit:

If these people dont belong in Prison, I say they dont belong in a mental institute and also think a facility should be made for criminally insane people who have 'killed' (murdered) or caused harm to others. They should not be in the same facility as non criminally insane people (insane but not criminally insane)

[edit on 6-3-2009 by disfugured]

reply to post by disfugured


Yes. I have. And I wouldn't have put it out there if I hadn't. Criminally insane are treated WAY differently than those diagnosed with lesser forms of dementia. I cannot attest to how things are in Canada nor will I try. I can attest to how things are at Chatahoochee , Fl.

it's a jungle out there folks... there's no guarantees in life that you won't be struck down needlessly with out provication or cause... go swimming in the ocean you may be eaten by a shark... walk through the woods and maybe you're mauled by a bear... i guess the answer is to kill the shark and the bear for doing what seemed natural to them?... i think not

there's no doubt this guy was mentally ill... there's no question... no one in their right mind does something like that... so what's the answer? it's not about an eye for an eye (all you old testament adherants)... it's about having a system that identifies and deals with the sickness in real time... not reactive, but pro active...

my spouse works in mental health as an RN in Canada and has witnessed first hand the numerous ways in which the sytem is broken and lets these folks fall through the cracks... we need to deal with the issue of mental health head-on, not put them behind bars where they live the rest of their lives in confusion and terror... with the right drugs and therapy, they can lead a semi-normal life...

is it their fault they hear voices? do we need to condemn them for it? if someone was "nuts" and heard god telling them to give everyone they met $100 they'd be hailed the kindest person alive... yet if they hear a voice telling them to commit acts we aren't so cool about... well, out come the pitch forks and torches and the call for blood

shame...