Tackling Alien Attack

This isn't my own idea I noticed it on a defense related forum - I thought the topic was interesting though and didn't get the kind of serious replys it deserved there.

I would like to hear some ideas on "Tackling Alien Attack", or how a technologically and perhaps intellectually "simpler" species could practically survive versus a potentially destructive/corruptive superior adversary.

Nuts and bolts ideas would be great ie. using current know-how to protect Earth as it is at the moment versus an ID4 style aggresor, or more radical variants on the theme ie. engineering human type conscious into modified nematode worms and then redefining what human means.

***

Civ 1. FTL starships deployed in outer solar system from which forward bases then missions etc are generated, starships of great size and require great resources to power them, staffed with massive population of residents.

Civ 2 (adv.Earth). Scatter thousands of passive EM telescopes mounted to probes to observe all resources in solar system, goal is to observe resource collection via comparison before/after.

Create mobile hi-power active platforms in constellations around major "nodes", deploy these if passive system is triggered to attempt to track these resource missions.

Secrete scattershot stealthed weaponised platforms in long orbits.

I guess you can figure the rest out, the idea is even versus an advanced civilisation which would probably be able to take out all of the weapon platforms, if you have the potential to locate a big fat starship then you give yourself a non zero probability of success which can deter threat better than doing nothing (sitting on Earth twiddling our thumbs while waiting for them to go away does not count, self determination only pls), and may even open up new avenues.

(based on ufo/water collection,ufo/radar tracking, presumed hidden ie.vulnerable starships)
***

Just one idea I look forward to hearing more with differing scenarios!

In case of Alien attack we should always remember the following:

1. Aliens can't shoot straight - see Stargate SG-1.
   
2. Badguys can't shoot straight see Star Wars.
   
3. Having captured the handful of goodguys the alien overlord spends too much time gloating, then when the goodguys escape, usually with the help of the strangely alluring humanoid Overlords uber-babe, they have all the plans and can foil the alien plan.
   
4. They will be using MS compatible software without a firewall - see Independence Day. God help us if they use Macs.
   
5. Bugs and stuff - see War of the Worlds.
   
6. We have far more to fear on earth than from Space - read history books.
   
7. please add to the list anything you think worthwhile.
   

So this being the case the Aliens wouldn't stand a chance. We'd win easy!

homemade mobile parabolic reflectors.

reflect their beam weaponry right back at them.

-

We need a small fleet of ships and ground stations just to shoot down one passive satellite in low earth orbit with a known, straight trajectory.

We won't even be able comprehend what is happening except perhaps that we are dieing. Modern research of UFOs suggests that aliens (or however they are) have at least to some extent developed technology capable of exploiting different dimensions, manipulating the sole, communicating with the afterlife, and who can guess what else. Until we have done the same our vantage point from the business end of their "weapons" will be no different than an isolated rain forest tribe watching a mushroom cloud rolling up into the sky and a mile high hypersonic shock wave tearing through the forest toward them.

The feel good ending of Hollywood movies has wired our brains with fuzzy wuzzys.

Sorry to be negative.



edit for typo

[edit on 8-3-2009 by dainoyfb]

Well according to the movie "signs" they have trouble opening doors...



And they have a weakness against water and wooden baseball bats.

But...if they have the capability of reaching us from who knows how far, I wouldn't put it past them to have a weapon that can destroy an entire planet.

Try to reflect a beam of that magnitude!

stringue,

You've presented a great thought experiment and have clearly put a lot of thought into your post.

My first gut reaction to your post is this. We can't really know how to beat a technologically superior adversary without first knowing their goals and plan of attack. Human kind has a keen sense of self preservation as well as a mind that can adapt to some of the harshest conditions.

Post WWII aliens supposedly became very intrigued with our nuclear developments and sightings reached an all-time high. We were also developing radar, a technology that has been stated to have brought down a few saucers. In one account I've read I think they actually landed and asked the Brits to turn the damned thing off.

Unfortunately our civilization is not advanced enough to weaponize space with any real consequence. I've heard that there are nukes in space hidden in some satellites. We barely have the capability to get payloads into orbit (as was seen with our recent launch failure). This will unfortunately continue until we develop some new propulsion system or mass altering technology that can allow us to put massive amounts of resources into space. Personally I feel our best chance is to go low-tech and develop underground mag-lev tunnels that can catapult objects into space without the need for internal thrust.

So my final answer to you. I'd say our best bet would be to expand out into space as much as possible and breed like rabbits. We'd be the cockroaches of the galaxy!

Obsidience

I agree with obsidience that this is an excellent thought experiment and a good premise for a thread. S&F!

Despite having a long standing faith that human kind will use its adaptability, ingenuity, lack of war ethics and will to live to survive almost any threat, I just cant help think that a race bent on our destruction and with potentially 4 billion years on us (or even 10000 years) would leave us with any opportunity.

I would also wager that any technology we have managed to acquired from such an advanced race would surely have been planted.

Well,
As much as I'd like to live,
If aliens had the technology to get here from another planet or another solar system, then they must be extremely advanced and have amazing techology.
I doubt our simple lead bullets would really do that much damage to giant spaceship. Tbh we would be really screwed.
There's even the chance they'd have something big enough to wipe out the whole planet in one - think Death Star
So unless the government isn't telling us about super high-tech laser beam guns we have, then we're doomed.
Lets just hope the aliens are friendly

Jacob

Thanks for your replys! This thread slipped down quite a bit I was suprised it was picked up again hence late reply,

dainoyfb

Obviously the capabilities of these civilisations are immense and the comparison of a tribal society to a nuclear one may be quite apt. I personally feel way back in the 1950s various military groups may have arrived at similar depressing conclusions perhaps leading to an attempt to deny visitation out of fear of the unknown.

The evidence shows there is at least one "FTL"(?) civ within range of interest of SOL, I doubt they or other advanced civilisations are going anywhere in a hurry. Staying confined to the surface of the homeworld waiting for them to go away will not work for the long term development of our species (see dinosaurs, although I suppose drastic modification of nature to ensure survival ie.birds is another idea).

So spreading out is our goal, in this thread I want the assumption this will p*iss off some of these civilisations and ways around that.

Shakezoola

The capabilities of these civilisations may be limited by something like interstellar politics, compared to which the antics of our own society may barely register, certainly our planet has not been zapped by a large death ray quite yet, yet if we assume the apparatus for death ray-ing was en transit at the moment a way to ensure survival of the species may be to spread throughout the solar system (ok that requires a leap of technology from present but that is still a low tech solution versus a high tech weapon).

***

Thanks for the replys. I will add that (too lazy to check atm though I think they recently revised upwards the mass of the milk way so) with upwards of 400 billions stars in our galaxy, over 350 confirmed exoplanets so far hinting at potentially billions of Earth like planets, that there are likely countless other "pre contact" civilisations "warts and all" who have to contend with much more advanced civilisations at some time or the other if they wish to expand their horizons.

Also that it is logical to assume that once upon a time even a mighty starfaring society of post physical demi-gods, were once just a bunch of slivering slimy slug like creatures in pool of muddy filth : )

[edit on 9-3-2009 by stringue]

reply to post by stringue


Maybe you need to focus more at home a little.

Disease, disaster, power struggles, war, famine, rape, murder, ethnic cleansing, nuclear warheads, greed, drugs, poverty and thats just a few things we have achieved throughout history and we continue to surpass our records.

Do you think that an advanced race would come anywhere near us, even a half wit would know better. They must be sh***ing themselves from this place.

If they really wanted to attack our planet they would be capable of things that a human mind cannot even fathom in its darkest desires and that is saying something.

If anything intelligent life would want to make sure that we get nowhere near the edge of our solar system as we would be the scourge of space.

And even if they are more superior, technologically advanced and more intelligent and so on. Man is more intelligent than monkeys, tigers, lions and flies but can we wipe them all out. No because they adapt to there environment and multiply etc.

Only mankind would be stupid enough to invade a planet and some are that stupid it might be there own damn planet.

If anything does ever come to our planet and announces their arrival it will be false or it will be a species of less common sense than we have at the moment and that too is saying something. We might not be the most stupid people in this whole universe.

Motives?
Food - im sure advanced species could grow some food surely
Money - nah, doesnt make sense
Land - Plenty more planets that have nothing on them
Technology - LOL
Advice - LOL
To steal your soul - Its not an alien if it wants that
To Rule this planet and make us build spaceships - Why would they do that when they can already build them themselves.
To just kill us all just because they want too - not intelligent life forms as theres no logical reason for the action.

Think about it.



[edit on 9-3-2009 by XXXN3O]

Maybe they'd kill us all out because their planets resources are depleting and our planet has the same resources as theirs.

Originally posted by obsidienceHuman kind has a keen sense of self preservation as well as a mind that can adapt to some of the harshest conditions.

A very smart alien race will take advantage of our self preservation instinct against us!

They won't come to us in glorious FTL battleships. That will cause the world to unite against them. They will use a different strategy, study our culture, study our weaknesses. They will use subtlety in every turn.

I could think that they might employ terrorist-like attacks in all spectrum of our society and technology. Who knows, the terrorists might be employed by them!

You can never be too cocky if you want to win(even how much technologically advanced you are!), to invade something. Never, ever under estimate your enemy, I think they're thinking the same.

[edit on 9-3-2009 by ahnggk]

[edit on 9-3-2009 by ahnggk]

ahnggk,

Wonderful tactics! May I ask? Are you in contact with such a species and did they give you their battle plan or did you human mind come up with it?

I did not claim that an alien attack would utilize battleships. I merely stated that we would have to adapt to whatever tactics are being used.

Obsidience

reply to post by obsidience


It came from the many alien research I did(from the internet).

Of course, that's just one aspect of invasion and one I'm familiar with which is to subdue the humans and the Earth's resources. Or even manipulate humans to extract Earth's resources. In which case, they are using mass media and entertainment for manipulation and brainwashing.

I actually can't think of a better way than that (to exploit the resources of the planet!).

In another aspect, why would an alien race annihilate a whole system? Other than maybe they are the 'good guys' trying to purge the universe or our galaxy of any evil elements that may include us or whatever that has took hold of our planet

i would love it if aliens attacked. im sure there are many others who would love to see the kind of weaponry they would use.

war of the worlds springs to mind!!

I think we need to just have a endless supply of Reese's Pieces

Originally posted by grantbeed
i would love it if aliens attacked. im sure there are many others who would love to see the kind of weaponry they would use.

It's flat, shiny, has some funky designs, has a magnet and fits on your wallet, it's called a credit card!

XXXN3O

"Disease, disaster, power struggles, war, famine, rape, murder......"

Our history has been filled with these afflictions for aeons, maybe they are natural to the "human condition". If we turn our focus inward we may not always have the opportunity to release from the bonds of Earth in the future.

"If anything intelligent life would want to make sure that we get nowhere near the edge of our solar system as we would be the scourge of space."

Reading through some of the early contactee stuff out there I have also picked up on the whole homo barbarian rhetoric [some of] the "space brothers" seem to spout, that coupled with the link to nuclear weapons etc. seems to suggest some of these groups would not be best pleased to see a starbucks on pluto etc.

Staying confined to Earth though seems like a self imposed prison sentence for the whole race!

ahnggk

"...extract Earth's resources.."

I'm with some of the others here in that I am not entirely convinced gathering resources from Earth could not be better accomplished someplace else , ie. a little quieter, we have detected hundreds of large gas giants now within a few hundred parsecs of Sol, no doubt with a veritable schmorgusborg of satellite planets for the hungry FTL diner.

I like the ideas that the advanced (though limited in number?) race could use subtletly rather than grand force in some kind of "alien attack" even if the result of that strategy is perhaps the collapse of our society rather than all out alien invasion, it makes sense!

Do you think the continuing coverup that we are not alone helps or hinders the antogonists above?

Thx for replys, enjoying reading them all.

[edit on 10-3-2009 by stringue]

reply to post by grantbeed

I do not think what has been observed in cases in the public domain is a good example of "alien weaponry", although I would hope the craft observed are "cutting edge" for the sake of the crews aboard! That said there have been examples in the literature of "alien weaponry" at least on a small scale, I posted this on a website a few years ago (not ATS) it is based on literature though pls take with a few grains of salt!

Unleash the Drones!:

Drones are autonomous devices carried by some craft, they appear to be carried en masse and can be tasked with several functions:

Erie 1988 Yellow Drone Triangles

www.ufologie.net...
www.ufocasebook.com...

The Erie Drones were observed leaving and re-entering the parent craft in this great encounter.

Scouting; In the Erie 1988 encounter the drones are seen leaving the vincinity of the parent craft and investigating inland objects, this would confers a measure of protection by allowing the parent craft to remain at a distance. It also infers they are equiped with sensors of some sort to allow recon and a spotlight to assist which was pointed towards a truck earlier in the encounter.

Mobility; Capable of "field propulsion" (they glowed yellow) don't appear to be conventionally aerodynamic, I would assume the lower inertia allows them to perform more radical maneuvers than the parent craft perhaps at the expense of top speed due to the smaller power plant (assuming they carry one!).

Range: Unknown but in this and other cases they do not stray far from the parent craft - likely this would negate their usefulness for protection.

Air-Air: Possess sensors capable of tracking very fast moving air targets - there were many craft zipping around each other yet they didn't hit each other.

Weaponry: The Erie Triangles are most certainly capable of hypersonic speeds, used in a disposable fashion may have similar kinetic "effect" to the US Armys ongoing LOSAT (now different name) programme:

youtube.com...

The effect of releasing stored potential energy on the other hand is unknown as this depends on what kind of stored energy device they use.


Tehran 1976 Bright Drones (spherical?)

en.wikipedia.org...

As many as four estimated 4.5 meter drones exited the parent craft and engaged the F-4 phantoms of the Iranian airforce sent to intercept in a classic encounter.

Weaponry: These Bad Boys demonstrated more teeth than the Erie triangles! Appearing to have some kind of directed electromagnetic weapon capable of temporarily overloading electrical circuits at a distance of at least 46km (the distance at which the F-4 was pursuing when the drone detached and engaged) The lethality of the beam weapon is unknown yet is probably scaleable as the object closed the gap and the effect remained the same (otherwise I assume it would of got toasty in the xxxxpit).

Power: Unknown yet capable of propelling the drone very quickly and at one point illuminated a large area at night to the extent that the pilot could "see rocks around it", may utilise fields as in previous case as the vessels appear to glow.

Sensors: Again capable of Air-Air tracking.

Other bullet points likely not dissimilar to the Erie drone triangles.


JAL 1628 Square Drones

ufologie.net...
www.ufoevidence.org...

Another classic case, the "drones" in this case appeared rather different to the other case's and their parent craft was much larger, imo this may suggest simpler technology or different "mission" parameters / distance from SOL for the craft and race involved, yet the objects do appear to act like drones for the parent craft by investigating the JAL 747. Perhaps also the drones involved here are manned as they moved about a lot less and moved as two suggesting a greater care taken in action's.

Scouting: The two lights kept pace with the 747 for some time before moving in closer to check it out,eventually they returned to the mother craft (which was seen visually by the captain and on the 747 weather radar).

Mobility: The two lights "drones" appeared at first below the 747 to the left and kept pace with JAL1628 groundspeed of 600mph, a little later the drones would jump almost instantly to a position forward and level with the 747, demonstrating a much larger mobility that the other cases though perhaps not as much agility (perhaps different design specs, more useful for standoff recon).

Appearance: The ufologie page has a sketch by the captain, these drones had banks of "lights" or thrusters as the Captain presumed they were
connected with the crafts acceleration:

www.ufoevidence.org... (6 paragraphs down)

Their appearance as far as I am aware is quite different to most reported craft, yet I still reckon these were employed in a scouting role suggesting different technologys used for similar roles. Also they were much larger than the Erie triangles and corresondingly the parent craft was reported to be larger suggesting larger craft can carry bigger drones.


Overall Summary: Drones are used by different types of craft and in different roles, show an incredible scaling of the technologies that seem to be present in larger craft into a much smaller package, and must be a great asset for the craft that use them. Specifically as a weapon system they permit a variety of action at great distance from a craft ensuring the crafts safety.


Directed Energy Goodness:

Many alien craft are reported to possess directed energy weapons of various sorts, from thin beams used to imobilise people with something perhaps akin to a taser electrical charge, larger "beams" that can kock people over and pin them down or levitate objects around, or laser type emmissions used in the Rendlesham incident to probe the contents of nearby bunkers, among many others, there's as much variety in this as in most other fields and these are my few cents at categorising some of the more popular ones:

Immobilising Beam: Denise Bishop Injury

Beyond Top Secret (Timothy Good) pg.82
science.howstuffworks.com... (just a pic couldn't find much online info sry)
www.scientificexploration.org... (3rd from bottom v limited info)

The witness was entering a house in the UK at 0300 11/9/81 when she observed a "dark metallic grey" "enormous UFO" hovering over some housess nearby, the witness attempted to make a hasty entrance to her house when a "lime green pencil beam of light came down and hit the back of my hand", case was investigated promptly by local ufologist and witness later interviewed by T.Good.

Effect: The beam incapacitated the witness and stopped her mid-stride as when the beam stopped after about 30 seconds she resumed her previous actions like a "film had been stopped and started again" - which in this case was continuing to open the door.

Type: A directed energy weapon that incapacitated the target, transfered energy of some sort to the target as caused a burn, assume the energy transfered resulted in incapaciation, may of been some kind of taser effect yet more precise. The weapon in this case was aimed very carefully as hit the targets hand (which was reaching for the door) implying a precise targeting ability. This weapon may of been used in other case's and yet not seen due to the immobilising effect.


Immobilising Beam: Valensole Case 1965

www.ufoevidence.org...

Similar to the above, this time the weapon was hand held "One of the beings pointed a pencil-like object at Masse, whereupon he found that he could no longer move. Then the being placed the object into a small case or holster on its left side."

Type: Maurice Masse does not appear to notice any laser type effect, though this encounter took place at 0545 when it may of been light and also the witness may not of been familiar with laser technology. The witness does not say if the occupants fiddled with the device before it fired, perhaps it has one setting or presetting, as if the entity panicked and unloaded the device at an incorrect setting this would not be good.

There were side effects described similar to lethargy for several weeks afterwards, perhaps indicating a less skillfull use of the technology than the previous case.


Overall Summary: A precise non lethal system, although in some cases can have nasty side effects if used in a rush (there are a few I can think of but won't list for brevity), has excellent targeting ability and unknown range though may be great based on other cases.


Force Beam: Travis Walton Abduction 1975.

en.wikipedia.org...
youtube.com...

The force beam is noted in many case's and seem's imo a bit similar to a star-trek tractor beam, able to apply force at a distance this may be a much more controlled use of the technology used in alien craft field propulsion systems, here the field is recreated outside the craft and also illuminates the area of effect. A force beam may be potentially distinguished from other directed energy beams by not appearing to touch the ground or "cutting-off" rather abruptly.

The Travis Walton case is another classic case and is summed up well in the wiki link. The "encounter" was basically witnessed by 7 men who were returning from a long days work thinning out a wooded area, travelling back in truck they observed a bright light behind a hill, driving closer (I assume this was ahead of them) over a rise they came across a metallic disk - estimated 2.4m high by 6.1m diameter, the driver came to a stop whereupon the principle witness jumped out and approached the disk.

Effect: At this point as witnessed by multiple occupants in the truck the disk made a loud turbine type sound and began wobbling , witness walked backward presumably realising this was not good

Next a beam of blue-green light emanated from the disk and struck witness raising him a few feet into the air, arms and legs outstretched. Next the beam applied a seperate impulse sending the witness into the dirt several meters backwards. The remaining witnesses left the scene rather quickly beginning the rest of this case.

Type: Beam can apply enough force to elevate an adult human male into the air, it can also create a very precise effect as it only effected a single witness. It glows blue-green.

Uses: Can be used to create excuses for obligatory anal probe (aliens cooped up on craft too long?); apply beam to subject calculating precise position and force required to elevate subject to a meter or two above ground, declare "oops" and lean on control stick sending witness into ground at some velocity, arrange for medical "assistance" at closest facility



Sensor Beam: Rendlesham Forest Incident 1980

www.rendlesham-incident.co.uk... (link to the second night)
Beyond Top Secret (Timothy Good) pg.56 (hard to follow)
(Theres a wiki entry but its not that good)

A classic multiple witness case extended over two days, found it quite hard to follow at first as it is quite an extensive case. Basically first night small black pyramid craft lands outside base, several men check it out, one person walks around it, craft lifts off and go's away. Second night several craft return one leads several men to a clearing near base where it dissapears and multiple other craft engage in extensive aerial maneuvers including shooting lots of lasers -- cool!

Prelude (quoting from Halt memorandum pg.58 BTS): On the second night a group of men on foot that had been pursuing a "red sun-like light" followed it out to a farmers field bordering Bentwaters AFB whereupon it stopped and "appeared to throw off glowing particles and then broke into five seperate white objects and then dissapeared", immediately thereafter "three star-like objects were noticed in the sky", all about 10 degrees elevation, "the objects moved rapidly in sharp angular movements and displayed red, green and blue lights.

[edit on 10-3-2009 by stringue]