It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.


Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.


Why are so many people sick?

page: 3
<< 1  2    4  5 >>

log in


posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 10:04 AM

Originally posted by wayno
One of the big differences between the food that humans evolved with and what is available now is that for millenia food was preserved naturally through the process of fermentation. That fermentation process not only preserves food and protects it from bad bacteria but also changes the foods nutritionally, making it higher in many vitamins and more digestible.
The healthy bacteria and yeasts helped our body's immunity.
Modern processed foods have none of these benefits while adding risks from the chemicals they use.
Kefir is my friend. I also use it not just for dairy but to ferment juices too to give them sparkle and tang.

That is really interesting. Not only have they taken the fruit out of fruit soda, they've also replaced fermenation with carbonation. Even fermented tea nowadays is ridiculously expensive

posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 10:25 AM
reply to post by kozmo

Yes, the corporatocracy is a beast with many heads whose goals and ambitions work in concert with one another. Humans are a resource to them; we work to create wealth which they fleece from us and then leave us to die when we are through enriching the few.

Yes, indeed. This does fit in with this thread here

Although I always had a vague sense that the richest people were not "nice" and perhaps were more apt to be crooks, but I coming to a firm belief that their greed is actually pathological, and universal.

Feeling for-warned and for-armed now, I will be on a crusade - my friends will hate me even worse than they do now about this, lol, but I will keep pounding out the message.

posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 10:31 AM
OK here is my observations, first I'm a trained herbalist and homeopath. and have been an emergency room RN for 20 yrs. most of aliphatic medicines that are used, have one thing in common, most depress your immune system. listen to the ads, they will tell you real fast that this medication will depress your immune system. you go to the hospital with a depressed immune system, and surprise you will get you get more meds and you can see the cycle. as per DR Shook "drugs are a temporary solution to the life long responsibility of taking care of your self". herbs are organic matter able to incorporate with your system. where modern drugs are synthesized and amplified. and the body will regect them. white willow bark was found to ease head aches, when this was discovered it was was made of synthetic oil base and amplified 1000 %, when the poney express was in force they noticed that the freshley ridden horses would go and eat fox glove that is where digitalis comes from. strenghtens the hart. herbs are the natural way to go. we have nothing that will kill a virus, go to the ER wait hours pay hundreds of $ and guess what, they will give you meds that will not cure you but may depress your immune further.while one drop of garlic in 17 gals of water will kill a virus. high blood pressure weak heart, howthorn berries will lower BP strenthen the heart. high trigicacerites, diatomaceous earth will clean human parasites and will lower BP , and because it is neg charged it will attact bacteria, clean out heavy meatal from the body. and I could go on and on, but again the best thing you can do is strenghten your immune system, your body can take care of itself it was ment to care for itself, has been doing it for 1000s of years. again Dr shook, to a graduating class of DRs, " most of the people that come to you will get well on their own but for gods sake do something so you can get credit" Jesus said god put herbs on this world so man could take care of himself. echaechea will improve your immune.enough I will stop. Thanks

posted on Mar, 1 2009 @ 03:39 PM
reply to post by doctordoom

Oh god. The level of paranoia and lack of logic boggles the mind. You want to know why so many people are sick. The answer is simple; it is a result of these factors:

-population aging (Baby Boomers and their parents)
-poor diet
-lack of activity
-stress (and resulting hormonal changes and immunosuppression)
-environmental exposure to heavy metals in water, lead pipes, asbestos in construction, UV rays from the sun, goodness knows whatever else. But this factor is dwarfed compared to the previous 5

The healthcare industry is hiring in the worst job market? How is that surprising? People are going to get older and sick regardless of economic conditions, and more people fall seriously ill in depressed economic times when they cannot/do not take preventative care of their health. Also, because more people are actually living to older ages now instead of being mowed down by infectious disease earlier in their lives, they are more likely to develop chronic illness as a lifetime's worth of stress and bad habits catches up to them.

As for your dig at the pharm industry, I am *no* fan of Big Pharma but your vaccine excerpt doesn't tie in to the rest of your argument. People are going to buy vaccines if they can afford to, it's their decision. Are you saying vaccines are causing the illnesses?

Now, a look at the top illnessess:

* Heart disease -- lifestyle, often a result of hypertension/high cholesterol
* Diabetes -- lifestyle (it's Type II on the rise; Type I is genetic)
* Cardiovascular Disease -- lifestyle (high cholesterol/fat/sodium)
* Cerebrovascular disease -- strokes, same factors as cardiovascular
* Hypertension -- lifestyle! (same factors, it's all interrelated)
* Kidney disease -- lifestyle (secondary problem caused by hypertension)
* Liver disease -- alcohol, hepatitis (sexual activity, drug use)
* Alzheimer's Disease -- aging, some diet-related factors
* Arthritis -- osteoarthritis is due to joint wear (w/aging); rheumatoid is due to autoimmunity, possibly following an infection
* Cancer -- lifestyle, depressed immunity, environmental carcinogen exposure, genetics...more evidence coming up for infectious causes (particularly viral infections)
* Chronic Obstructive Lung Disease -- this is chronic bronchitis + emphysema. SMOKING! A small %age due to genetics but strike early
* Epilepsy -- genetics, brain damage, abnormal development
* Hereditary Hemochromatosis -- HFE gene mutation that makes you absorb too much iron from your diet
* Iron Overload -- another word for hemachromatoses. Hereditary with some secondary causes
* Oral Diseases -- not brushing your teeth! If not, some immune diseases, some medications/drugs, some infections, chewing tobacco
* Osteoporosis -- drop in bone mass, due to aging, drop in estrogen with menopause, combined with inadequate calcium intake.

ED (I assume you mean erectile dysfuntion?) is *not* unusual, and I agree there are diseases we've never really come across before and make no sense as of yet (Chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, restless leg syndrome) but this obviously needs more research as that is how we discovered the causes of the diseases we do know well. But to blame this all on a worldwide orchestrated conspiracy? That's nutters. Doctors would rather not see complicated chronic cases as they makes treatment more risky, occupy hospital beds, and are a headache to manage. Not to mention they take up loads of time which could have used seeing multiple "easier" cases.

Sorry this is so long, but I felt clarification was in order.

- A med student (feel free to discredit my opinions b/c of this and the fact that I didn't want to sign up for an account).

posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 12:41 AM
How about alternative therapy and doctors come together and start changing the system to help heal people instead of pharma killing them so they can come into their being.
I think they have fobbed off enough money off the generations and its time to teach them healthy eating habits that dont involve foods that support food industries but actually support nature.
SO that the governments own people can be fit and strong, smarter and build a better countries that will benefit all people. Clean up their own backyard.
Those countries that are the fittest, strongest and smartest are always looked at in awe and make other countries weep. Those are the powersul countries.
So when the givernment decideds to change the system and make its people healthy we can all work together rather against eachother and thats when the wealth of a nation becomes its strongest link and other countries will eventually follow suit.
People pay more for health and fitness why not change it to be so that these industries rise instead of tyranny then we can all get along.
There is no such thing as entire cures but if your country is fit and healthy it changes the relationship and inspires.
It is wrong for the givernment to kill off its own people rather then making them healthy as they can benefit so much more from a healthy society.
Japan is doing this with its own people and with their technology will eventually come out on top when everyone else crumbles and will most likely be the ones to survive this earth. POwer will go to them because they kept their people healthy.
How can the government do this is by stop taking money off the tyrants and bring in authorites that will bring to light the poisons they put in everything get them shut down and start investing in health. Build up the country and the people again so that better technology can come through with better health.

[edit on 2-3-2009 by Applesandoranges]

posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 02:48 AM
Part of it is the fact that large segments of the population is aging, and only some of them can afford first rate health care. While the US is one of the few first world countries with positive population growth, most of that is from immigration, and most of those immigrants can't afford healthcare either, and many aren't in the best of health either. They also don't tend to end up in the best of working conditions either.

posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 04:34 AM
Thank you to those of you who have mailed me. I am coping. Whoa, that bit about the Chelation scares me. The husband slowly poisoning me? I dont think so, i'm definatly worth more alive.
[i think]Anyhow, i'm taking something from every comment made here and this thread has been very informative.
I realize this thread is NOT about me but it applies to me.

I am going to start a raw vegie diet, with little protein. I started taking Ester-C, and multiple vitamin.
Frankly, i suspect this house. Its an old farm house, bad insulation, and i dont know whats inside the walls. Maybe i have terminal mold.

I will be ordering a Kit that i can perform a test on my skin and check for mold.
This is a sad way to live, really, because i like to be active and happy and i have always had that "joy of life" that i feel now is taken away from me.
Whatever it is, i will find out.
Like my family says " DG, its time to feel better

I will try.

posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 12:24 PM
A lot of these lifestyle diseases can also be psychosomatic, from dealing with everyday stress

posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 03:21 PM
im glad someone else has noticed the strange prevelance of diseases,new ones cropping up all the time......its all about the nanotechnology seen with morgellons disease.

the nanotech is being used to depopulate huimanity,it always has been.

many of our natural ailments are artificial and are caused by the nanotech.

everyone is getting sick,a young friend of mind in his 20's has come up with arthritis,i suddenly develeoped an inurable eye disease,but cured with the use of i understood the nanotechnology,it uses magnetic pulses to stimulate nerves.

conquer the nanotech and you cure 90% of diseases.

the most important thing to remember 9is that the medical healt services are the depopulators,(future ai),if your gonna depopulate humans it makes perfect sense to control their medical health and science.
its all a lie,nonsense which you can see through if you actually ananlyse many diseases.

posted on Mar, 2 2009 @ 03:40 PM
a big clue is in the masterlist of dead scientists,the majority of them were involved in medical health,obviously something doesnt want our diseases to be cured,or actually discovered ie there nanotech based.

the medical health profession also has the highest mortality and suicide rate of all professions which is kinda bizzare givin they are the experts on living well!

medical health professionals also have the highest chance of being murdered by a stranger,many serial killers seem to target doctors and nurses......its evident humans in the system get weeded out.

yet another clue is the side effects of pharmacutecals......for example anti pshychotic drugs cause neurrodegeneration,thatsright they destroy the brain..

thats why alzhiemers (a neurodegenerative disease) patients given the drug die much quicker

(NaturalNews) When people diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease (AD) " act up" and show signs of neuropsychiatric symptoms such as aggression and agitation, they are often given antipsychotic drugs. Now, it turns out, that's a practice that could be deadly. The result of a long-term study , just published online and in the February edition of The Lancet Neurology journal shows there's a large increased risk of severe side effects and death in patients receiving these medications. What's more, they hasten mental deterioration.

all anti psychotics do just that,they are designed to destroy the brain,hence why mental ilness often is targeted against the most intelligent of society...there a threat and must be dumbed down or removed.

whats the saying?,thank god for mental ilness,indeed not god but something that pretends to be god.
mental ilness is a mask for psychological warfare upon the human population,thus why there is along history of severe abuse is psyciatric wards,and i mean severe like you wouldnt beleive,they psycholigacly torture people to death in there.

if you wanna look at it futher,investigate the psycholgical warfare and interrogation techniques used by militaries etc and compare them to mental ilnesses and you will see they are identical.

lastly with all of the artificial ilnesses there is a campaign to normalize them,to make them appear normal.
i mean how is hearing voices from "god" telling you to kill important people who help the world a normal natural disease?,it isnt!

find me a bad person who was assassinated by someone who heard voices and ile bow to you.,......there all good people who try to help the stop depopulation.

posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 07:33 PM

Originally posted by dgtempe
If anyone finds the antidote, please let me know. I am so sick with CHRONIC (as told by the hospital) respiratory illnesses, that i had the family pool money together and i will be going to Orlando for a month to see my kids- and to see if this clears up.

I have had cold after cold, resp illnesses, bronchitis, fevers, you name it i have had it. Just two days ago i woke up with yet another sore throat and totally ill again.

I imagine my body wont take this much longer.
I havent been posting much because of the way i feel.

I truly think i am going to die soon. I know some dead people who died of less problems than i have.

I cant stand this anymore. :shk:
There comes a time when nobody cares and people think you are just craving for attention and medicines.
I want nothing better than to be well, but its one illness after another going on almost 2 years.

Please read up on CoQ10. It is a natural substance created in your system and at low levels it can cause a multitude of issues possibly breathing also. I also take oregano oil one pill daily and that helped clear up any internal infections in my stomache and a staph infection externally. Just a hopeful suggestion. Check with cardiologist especially being on breathing or bp meds. Possible interactions.

posted on Mar, 4 2009 @ 08:33 PM
reply to post by doctordoom i was just readind a thread on jews taking control of the world by making us sick and dependent on medications that will eventually make us more sick, now this.

posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 04:38 AM
you are right...

why so many americans are sick:

1. Diet. No one knows what you're supposed to eat to be healthy. People think meat and dairy and sugar are ok to eat and still be healthy. they are not. see the china study by dr colin campbell. The meat and dairy industries pay scientists on board of nutrition etc (dr campbell was a member of the board and knows) and so the wrong message goes out to the public. in the name of protecting industries and money. (not that most of the public would probably change their diet anyway, but still..)
Dairy has been linked to cancer (particularly breast cancer). some say its probably the cause - the protein casein in milk. (or one of hte causes). Asian countries dont drink dairy - low rates of cancer. countries with the highest rate of dairy consumption (holland, scandanavia, france) have the highest rates of breast cancer). cancer is also down to overall health. iodine deficiency is linked to hormones and could be another contributing factor. asian countries eat a lot of seaweed. we dont. there isnt enough iodine in table salt and few other sources than seaweed. there have been studies done with iodine on rats which show it killing cancer cells. in lab tests wakame seaweed was found to be more effective than chemo drug 5 flouricl in killing cancer cells. but theres not much drug money in seaweed.
hence my doctor never read about it in her drug copany funded medical journals or conferences..

What should you eat then? (to stop heart disease, cancer and diabetes in their tracks; and also probly osteoporis and arthritis maybe).

just eat raw and cooked vegetables of ALL types. eat MOSTLY vegetables in your diet. eat some fruit as well. also eat some nuts and seeds and grains (rice/buckweat, barley etc). for protein eat beans/corn/lentils/chickpeas/etc. or eggs or fish if you're not vegetarian. drink only water or fruit juice or vegetable juice or green tea or herbal teas. that's it. it's that simple. that's all you have to do to be healthy and get rid of many illnesses like heart disease, cancer, diabetes etc. put olive oil on your salad with lime juice and use herbs in stuff. find out about the properties of herbs and use them for health benefits. Why eat an aspirin (a manufactured drug) when you could drink willow bark tea (what aspirin was made from). drugs are made by altering a natrual substance. the body rejects the substance cuz recognises as foreign/not natural. Why do drug cos do this? because they can't patent a natural substance therefore no money to be made from it. the substance must be 'original' or 'new' to be patented. therefore they have to alter its molecular structure. just eat the mango. dont eat the drug derived from the mango.. (they are currently looking at mango's health benefits re; cancer - no surprise, its a fruit. all fruit and vegetables help fight cancer and other illnesses and keep you healthy). the chinese have known this for years. you could do worse than go to a chinese doctor. they have 5000 years of knowledge about herbs. so do european herbalists.

where does medicine actually come from? plants and herbs. How do we get drugs? we alter the molecular structure of plants and herbs that work to cure illnesses in their natural state. why do we do this stupid thing? because you cant make money out of natural substances.

[edit on 5-3-2009 by rapunzel222]

posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 04:59 AM
What NOT to eat if you want to be healthy.

Any processed foods. seriously, anything in a package or wrapped in plastic or with numbers and chemicals in it. dont eat it. eat fruit/vegies that are organic/non gmo/non nano etc. that havent been irradiated (if they have they lose all their nutritional value). better still - grow your own fruit and vegetables to be sure they're safe; and dont use chemical fertlisers - learn about complimentary planting and other ways to control pests etc. put seaweed on the garden and manure - it works.

dont drink coke or pepsi or softdrinks with sugar in them. sugar does stuff to your insulin i think - it can affect your whole chain of health - sugar can kill. particularly if you have cancer or some other illness. This is because its over processed (white sugar). and we eat way too much of it in cakes, chocolates etc. avoid all this stuff. no more pavlova. no more cheesecake or mudcake (i know, i was suicidal for a while, but you get used to it)..
Instead, if you MUST have sugar, eat dates, watermelons (sweet fruit) or honey, maple syrup (the more organic and unprocessed the better) or raw/cane sugar that hasn't been processed - or stevia. you can actually buy chocolate with fructose in it instead of white sugar. this is better. (you can also get dairy free chocolate - i have investigated this important fact).

particularly dont eat aspartame, its poison. it gives people fits. or makes you hyper etc. found in coke, equal, artificial sweetners, even in vitamins..

dont drink flouride in your toothpaste or water supply. flouride is found in rat poison. you have tiny amount in your body thats all you need. much more is a poison for you. there is plenty of info on the net about it. brush your teeth with plant based toothpaste - weleda is a good brand. it works too. but if youre eating that healthy you probly wont need it even.

try to avoid mercury build up in your body. its found in fish (due to pollution) - but probly depends where the fish was caught maybe; dental fillings; in makeup as a preservative (dont know why - no level of mercury is safe - how can they allow this); apparantly its even in computers; ...

wash any new clothes you buy carefully - particularly if they smell like chemicals. they put formaldehyde on a lot of clothes in dangerous levels.. probly depends as well where the clothes are made. if you can smell it, its bad.

dont drink coffee, black tea or alcohol (or try to cut down/substitute with other drinks above). they are not v healthy and can damage your health.

buy akin skin/hair products. dont use hair/skin products with parabens and numbers in them/chemicals. they will affect your health. why use them when you can get totally safe products? (akin/alchemy brands and others).

a good way to be is to grow your own food (fruit/vegetables etc); raise chickens for eggs/ have a dam (pond) with fish in it maybe (if you have room) and like fish); and catch your own rainwater to drink. This way no one controls your food supply and you wont have to worry about food shortages; irradiated or gmo vegetables (gmo causes cancer in rats and affects dna for generations to come) also nano tampering with food causes cancer too.

stay away from powerlines and mobile phone towers - dont live under/near them. and obviously from factories etc if poss.

well if you do all that its probly a good start.

avoid depression by spending more time with your family/extended family and friends. keep close social networks. i also worry about all the childcare we're having now - i think its damaging emotionally for both mother and child.. in my opinion.. (i may get in trouble for htis, but thats what i think).

dont give your kid cows milk. give it human milk. cows milk is great for cows but your child may not get all it needs to be as intelligent as it could be from cows milk. or non human milk.

posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 05:14 AM
also stop giving the child milk when it would be weaned. to keep eating dairy after this point isnt really natural - no other animal species does it. adult animals dont drink milk. its probably messing with our hormones - or confusing our body - maybe why women in particular breast cancer is linked to milk.

Meat. our digestive system is more vegetarian..its long/convoluted. meat seems to get a bit stuck in it with bad consequences - constipation etc. theres evidence that too much meat causes heart disease and other diseases of affluent societies. try to eat meat as a garnish if you have to eat it. in v. small portions and organic/free range/grass fed etc. Better still, stick to fish and eggs or just eggs. also meats acidic.. your body could get too acidic (if you believe in the acidic/alkaline theories of health).
also there's a lot of hormones in chickens and beef - that are added in production process - and v. bad for your health. best to steer clear of them altogether. also i reckon its karma - you eat a lot of animals that you dont really NEED to eat to stay healthy and full - then of course youre going to get sick, just out of bad karma. you didnt need to kill and eat them to be healthy/well fed - so why do it? (one of the ancient greek philosphers -forget which one- said that any society that ate meat would need a lot of doctors becauz all its citizens would be unhealthy. in ancient greeks befor ethe olympics athletes had to be on strict vegetarian diets in order to improve their fitness/performance)

(particularly pigs - they are so intelligent - like human children; in my opinion. but even birds are smart..) needless to say you should only in free range eggs in my opinion...
also, stands to reason, these will be better for you, since from healthier chickens.

if you want to be v. healthy drink wheatgrass juice or barley grass juice occasionally. it tastes foul but its v. healthy for the body. i really reocmmend chinese HERBS (not animal parts) for health - getting all the vitamins/minerals you might be lacking.

make sure you're not magnesium deficient. magnesium deficiency is common (like iodine deficiency). Mg e.g. in the form of ocean magnesium is great to soak in in the bath occasionally, for health.

enzymes are important.

i think i have run out of stuff for now...

this is all just what i think based on research ive done; but obviously you should do research and make your own mind up

posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 05:21 AM
another book about breast cancer and dairy is professor jane plant (cbe) 's book 'your life in your hands'. she was near the end of her time with cancer - had tried everything and failed - finally she looked at china and deduced that poor people didnt get cancer v often and also didnt eat any dairy. she stopped dairy and her tumour shrunk immediately. shes now cured. may not work for everyone, but if i had breast cancer, id definitely try it.

re: osteoporosis: all the talk is eat caltrate - calcium supplements; and eat dairy. actually, its a good idea to check you're not low on magnesium and to eat a lot of green vegetables as calcium and magnesium are in balance in your body. if your body's too acidic (poss from eating bad diet/too much meat?) your body may pull calcium from your bones to buffer re: your blood (i think) and so if you make your body less acidic (by drinking wheatgrass juice - sticking to a high vegetable type diet etc) you may be able to reverse the calcium loss i think.
course theres not as much drug co money in diet..
you dont need to eat dairy to get calcium 0 = figs and other foods like bread have plenty of calcium in them.. and its probably that there's a reason for the imbalance in your body that you can correct by diet without ingetsing huge amounts of calcium - which may not fix the balance anyway.. in my opinion...

professor plant has written a book on osteoporosis and dairy too if you prefer a more scholarly take on it..

posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 05:56 AM
on a broader level, i dont think that any countries that have so much wealth and resources while in other countries children starve to death, will be countries full of healthy people. the reason? we are all one, and karma wont allow it. our greed in taking more than we need, causes suffering to others who have less than they need; and our greed results in us eating too much, indulging too much, getting 'diseases of affluence', and being depressed because we live all alone in a big house and have lost our close nit social groups that poorer communities often have..

i think if we focus on ensuring that everyone in the world (and our own country) is fed, clothed, housed and happy and make sure we dont take more than we need of anyting (but give back instead to those who dont have stuff), then we will all be happy ourselves..

posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 06:00 AM
also i think its due to stress cuz were all enslaved to work for those who make lots of money out of our hard work (millions of dollar salaries of ceos) or are crooked (banks) and steal money from us - and also due to the education system of children which narrows their minds, dumbs them down, prepares them for a life of slavery to money and non-thinking; and often does not make them happy - i think kids should enjoy going to school or else we are teaching them wrong.

i will stop now..

[edit on 5-3-2009 by rapunzel222]

posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 06:22 AM
reply to post by BorgHoffen

follow the da$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$trillion's

posted on Mar, 5 2009 @ 09:34 PM

Originally posted by echodogene
reply to post by doctordoom i was just readind a thread on jews taking control of the world by making us sick and dependent on medications that will eventually make us more sick, now this.

aha there we go,a discredation method right before us.

by making something sound rediculous it means no one will believe,so by saying humans are being made sick by crazy jews on purpose to depopulate the world,
actually means there is something making humans sick and depopulating the world and they are hidng that fact by discrediting it by making similiar sounding theories which sound crazy.
get it?

i mean the phrase "conspiracy theory" automaticly connotates bizzareness and unreliability,in otherwords the conspiracy wolrd was invented as a cover up tactic to discredit truths and secrets.

notice how many examples there are of something which controls the world,and how they are all made to sound crazy?

shadow governments,
black ops

in other words theres is something which controls the world and the above are all intendid to discredit that truth.

so should one actually fins what is controlling the world, "there is XX which controls the world" no one will ever believe you due to the discreditation methods.

so if something actually does its very hard to get that truth out,which as you can see is the intention of the cover up and discreditation tactics.

"futureartificialintelligence are actually the ones who control our present time,that is the truth all the cover ups are about that and their presence/evils here.

the conspiracy world is the cover up,understand ;-)

keep an eye out for crazy sounding threads,they are intentional to hide the truth.
but be aware they discredit and cover up the lies just as much,if you cover up a lie everyone believes its the truth.
remember they are very smart and experts at psychological manipulation.

[edit on 5-3-2009 by welivefortheson]

<< 1  2    4  5 >>

log in