I lost it at work today.

reply to post by salchanra


I agree! My husband is gone for 3 or more months at a time on a tugboat making a living for us so we can save up and buy a house. we are living in a 3 room apartment so we can save as much as possible, then buy a home responsibly.. I just don't like the idea that there is now an acception to the rule. It use to be you work hard for what you have, what happened to that??

reply to post by salchanra


Well I have a great deal of respect for anyone who can do as you have. But it isn't possible for everyone. My 5 acre lot cost me $78,000 back in the mid-80's. Despite the fact that I was making very good money at the time there was NO way I would ever have been able to pay cash for the land and the house.

Now, I could mosey on up to Maine where land is alot cheaper and buy a lot for maybe $5000 (forget that it's impractical based upon my work). But if enough of us did that those $5,000 lots would be selling for $50,000. You get the point.

There's a difference between getting something for nothing and taking advantage of an incentive that arguably could help the overall economy.

I don't think you understand the full issue. One of the problems is homes not getting purchased. NOT buying homes IS one of the problem.

It's like saving money. Right now, people are ironically saving too much money as a result of the economoic problems, and it's making the problem worse, not better. It's sort of hard for GE, GM, or other businsses to keep their head above water when no one buys their products. They lay people off. People buy even less. More businesses go down the tubes.... it's a vicious cycle.

So instead of venting about how people are taking advantage of the situation, perhaps you should consider that there is a reason they are offering these credits. If everyone in the nation stops buying houses, stops buying cars, stops buying services, this is going to get much worse, not much better.

It's ironically the same thing the banks are doing. Everyone is hoarding cash, and it's making it worse, not better.

If you don't like taxes then direct barter.

BAM, no tracking, no government, no taxes all is well.

The nature of microeconomics requires money to flow, and the government has to use taxation and incentives to control the flow. Simply don't use money and your their...no more lazy freeloaders!

When you do use money, you are using government regulation to store value for you in money THEY created. Don't claim MY MONEY, you didn't create it, the US government did, it infused it into a system, and you chase after it. If you want to blame lazy freeloaders then fine, but don't forget that your owning, using and possessing money IS daddy government regulating behavior in a way that benefits him.

We can do 2 things.

1. Everybody counterfeit money.

or

2. groups.google.com...

[edit on 20-2-2009 by ctjctjctj]

I think your co-worker is wrong about that. I know the government is giving tax credits to first time home buyers for 7 to 8 thousand dollars. This tax credit can NOT be used towards purchase of the home. It is also paid back to the feds via your tax returns.

Originally posted by Chadwickus
What percentage of these people do that though? You're making out everyone who takes this money is a total free loader that's never paid taxes or earned a wage.

What a ridiculous notion!

Most are probably just as hard working as you say you are and have just been caught in an unfortunate situation.

Honestly, I dont care. The banks didnt deserve a bailout, nor did the big three. Homeowners who got in over their head certainly dont, and someone who wants to buy a house doesnt.

I dont care if my property value drops, I dont care if you have to live in an apartment for an extra year, nor do I care if you want a 3 bed 2 bath and can only afford a 2 bed 1 bath. Doesnt ammount to anything.

Fact is when the government gives away money, they are giving away my money. A lot of people screwed up, not my fault, I didnt, why should I have to pay for those who did?

Sure, you can work hard, work smart, whatever. End of the day, I'm not taking one dime from you, and dont feel you should be entitled to one dime of mine.

Ill support paying for the roads, military, education, etc... These things benefit the nation, make it stronger. Bailing out those who want more than they can afford only make us weaker in the long run. Sure, you can argue that more people will be put to work, the lending mess will work itself out. Short term it may. Meanwhile, more of my check is going away because of greed and irresponsibility.

Let the market fix itself, stop throwing my money at every little problem, real or preceived.

Just an FYI- Its an $8000 tax deduction - not cash.

"Today he told me that under Obama's plan, he can get 8000 or 10000 dollars from the government since he is a first time home buyer and it didn't have to be paid back."

Okey, so then if we go by this guys logic, since I too am/was a first time home buyer, then why shouldn't the government give us back $8-10000 dollars. David I don't blame you for being mad, it clicked my temper up a couple clicks. When I bought my home I worked hard an saved my money an bought my first home. Actually through harder work I even managed to pay it off five years early. Since obama signed that package the markets been nose diving an here we have people like this guy you work with that wants nothing more then free money.

Originally posted by jtma508
reply to post by salchanra

 

Well I have a great deal of respect for anyone who can do as you have. But it isn't possible for everyone. My 5 acre lot cost me $78,000 back in the mid-80's.

I agree with you on that. Its not possible for everyone. Hell, I couldnt buy 5 acres for 80k either. What I could do was spend 10k on 5 acres a little farther out of town.

What I am saying is people need patience and sacrifice. I worked hard and have what I have. Should I want to move or buy a new house, I can sell mine and then Ill have the funds to do it. Took 3 years to build my place. Alot of work and dedication. Why should I support someone, anyone who simply thinks they deserve what they want, where they want right now and I get to help foot the bill?

Did the money given to the banks help? Nope. Did the money given to the car industry help? Nope. So, tell me.. With all the money thats been literally wasted over the past year, do you think that this is really going to work?? Its a lot deeper then the housing industry, and while it might help for a little while, one of the other issues are sure to pull it back down..

reply to post by salchanra


By creating opportunities, you create opportunities for yourself.

What if someone is on welfare for a year while they go to school. Because they go to school, they managed to get a really decent job. They build a bigger house next door to you and bring your property value up, making you lots of money.

Or they go to that medical school that makes them the doctor the finds a cure for cancer?

Or they get a good enough job that gets them health insurance and keeps them from walking around with an untreated staph infection. The possibilities are endless.

reply to post by David9176


David, you have every right to feel the way you do about what is going on. However, my personal opinion is that we all need to step back and calm down, and be careful about judging our fellow citizens for taking money *legally* that is being given them. We can argue all day about what the right approach is to the crisis, and from what I read all these bailouts and stimuli are going to make it worse in the long run, true. I don't like any of it. I can hardly stand to read about it anymore, because I see Doom all over it. But judging everyone and flying off the handle is going to make things worse. How can you get so angry with one common man who is trying to get by, when the government and big banking has robbed us on the largest scale. If everyone flips out like that on their neighbor, we are going to be in for much worse times than the nasty circumstances will even call for.

We need to attack this with positive energy, not anger. I hear people patting you on the back for "losing it", but I truly think it's better to be kind or at least gentle to our neighbors. They all got screwed over in the big picture, just like you. Who can blame them for taking money that someone else is going to take if he doesn't? (Yes, I know you do.) Like I told a kid who asked me about this yesterday - yes you can turn down the money, but someone else will still get it and the stimulus will go on.

Whether it's stealing, I say the bailout (TARP) was more like stealing. Isn't it the biggest robbery in history? Put your anger onto the people in power who started this or encouraged this or kept it going, maybe. The stimulus at least is helping the average man or woman, finally, instead of big money. During the bailout, I kept hearing "what about the homeowners and the people struggling?" It's kind of like, you could say "we've spent too much money, so let's stop now and the homeowners get nothing." But fair is fair, if you want to look at it that way, so what's good for big bankers should be good for the average Joe. I say don't punish all Americans for what the bankers did, especially after they got their bailouts. That's rigid thinking. Out of all the money thrown at the crisis, I'd say this is the most justified. This is an unfortunate loan from future generations; you may call it stealing and in a way it is. But it's legal and it's out in the open - everyone knows the deal, pretty much, even if they don't realize the big picture. Maybe you can find a more helpful way to get your message out.

Anyway, from what I remember, I usually like your posts a lot. I just see a pattern of judgementalism against our fellow Americans going on in general in this country and it's really worrying me. If they divide us, they have already won.

[edit on 20-2-2009 by wintermarches]

reply to post by nixie_nox


I'm sorry, but welfare is not going to get many people through school. Not quick enough anyway.. Most states require less then half time schooling to qualify for food stamps.. Imagine?? How is anyone suppose to get off welfare with rules like that?? I know a couple people on welfare, and its an enabler. It does help people, but it also helps keep them where they are.

Oh, and by the way, it's not like they slice 10k off the price of the home. They apply via a tax credit, and one example I saw for a typical family resulted in adding 6k bonus when all was said and done.

But still, if people do not buy houses (or other goods and services), we are more screwed, than if we don't.

Originally posted by salchanra
No, Im not racist. By "these people", I mean ANYONE who belives it is their right to take taxpayer money to benefit themselves through the money and or work of others who actually hold themselves accountable for their actions. You want a house, fine, go buy one, with YOUR money, not mine.

I worked very hard for what I have, bought my land with cash I raised, built my home myself with tools and lumber I created or purchased.

Nobody has ever given me anything either aside from a hard time. I've worked and paid for everything I own, bit if they're going to give away my hard earned tax dollars anyway, I'd be a fool not to take my share if I met the criteria. Better I spend it than someone I feel is less deserving of the right.

Makes me sick that people out there are getting "free" money to walk in and have the "good" life, while those of us working hard, paying our taxes get beat down everytime someone wants something.

Like I was trying to tell Kagin, take the money if you qualify for it, and stop fretting the unfairness of it all. It's obvious that jealousies and resentments are eating you guys up inside. Put your Puritan work ethics and morals in your pocket for better times. If you don't you're all going to get ulcers or have coronaries. Like Kagin said: If you can't beat them, join 'em!

Originally posted by nixie_nox
reply to post by salchanra

 

By creating opportunities, you create opportunities for yourself.

What if someone is on welfare for a year while they go to school. Because they go to school, they managed to get a really decent job.

Good for them.

Ive actually known people who have done this. I also know many more who have committed all sorts of welfare fraud and should be in jail.

However, should you take welfare, you should be required to pay it back. Kind of like a student loan. I have nothing against helping people, but those who want something for nothing I detest. You need to be on welfare, fine. But in a year, or two years you better have learned a marketable skill to benefit the country and pay back your debt to help the next guy out.

reply to post by David9176


The sad thing is that if you do the principled thing, you lose out, and will always finish last. Your just screaming in the wilderness.

So I wonder how much Obama's civilian security force pays? If anything. Any recent news on this yet? If it pays, then everything will be alright I suppose.

[edit on 20-2-2009 by Red Shield]

Originally posted by LLoyd45

Put your Puritan work ethics and morals in your pocket for better times. If you don't you're all going to get ulcers or have coronaries. Like Kagin said: If you can't beat them, join 'em!

Like my grandparents taught me years ago. If its not yours, its stealing. Ill keep my work ethics, Ill keep working hard, and when the ship goes down in flames, Ill be roasting marshmellows.