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How did congress contribute to the economic mess?

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posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 01:11 AM
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So I hear alot about how congress is to blame for this mess. Believe or not fellow conservative ATSers go so far as to blame the democratic congress for this entire mess and deny the iraq war or the first 6 years of the administration had anything to do with it. This blame didnt just come out when the stimulus packages were put forward, the blame among the conservative community became vocal way into the early days of the presidential campaigns.

Im just curious, what did congress do that contributed to this economic mess? I dont want to hear about the stimulus, I have my own thoughts about solutions to america and this blame is been dumped onto the congress over the entire two year period. I would like to ask fellow conservatives or those on the rightwing, before October of 2008 when a recession because self evident, where did the democrat congress contribute to this $10.7 trillion debt? Tell me what bills and howmuch while you at it, infact further more I would like to know the ones where there were no republican support.

I feel that if your going to start shifting blame from the administration, or partly, there has to be the facts to back it up. Im sick and tired of folks here simply using the two line sentences blaming congress for the mess with nothing to show for it.... so please.. enlighten me because I cant seem to find any signficant contribution to this mess. Maybe yall could show me something I missed.

[edit on 20-2-2009 by southern_Guardian]




posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 01:16 AM
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For one, Democrat after Democrat defended Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac during the 2004 hearings.


hearings


[edit on 20-2-2009 by stevegmu]



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 01:29 AM
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A Democrat led Congress made sure that the first bailout passed.

Now we don't even know where most of that money went thanks to the new powers Congress gave the treasury.

How about lack of oversight.

But to be fair the Reps were busy playing the same ball game.

Sooner or later, Congress will have to learn how to say NO.



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 01:37 AM
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The original Community Reinvestment Act was passed by Congress and signed into law in 1977 by Jimmy Carter. Its purpose, in a nutshell, was to require banks to provide credit to “under-served populations,” i.e., those with poor credit.

In 1995, Bill Clinton’s administration made various changes to the CRA, increasing “access to mortgage credit for inner city and distressed rural communities,” i.e., it provided for the securitization, i.e. public underwriting, of what everyone now calls “sub-prime mortgages.”

Bottom line? It forced banks to issue $1 trillion in sub-prime mortgages.

In 1999 Congress passed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Financial Services Modernization Act which repealed part of the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, opening up competition among banks, securities companies and insurance companies. The Glass-Steagall Act prohibited a bank from offering investment, commercial banking, and insurance services.

In 2000, Congress passed a law barring states from regulating credit default swaps under their gambling and “bucket shop” laws. This set the stage for the market in “financial derivatives” that are a big part of what is causing the economic meltdown today.

Then there was H.R. 5660, the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000. That bill was folded into the Consolidated Appropriations Act, 2001, a massive spending bill, passed in haste at the end of the 106th Congress.

Those are the major ones, would you like more?



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 01:38 AM
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"The Congress shall have power...to coin money, regulate the value thereof..." --US Constitution.

It is a new session of Congress, the 111th, and they could start following the established law that precedes and still trumps The Federal Reserve Act.

Failure to follow the law tends to make one guilty and responsible, does it not?



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 01:41 AM
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reply to post by redhatty
 


what the heck was that? Im talking about the last 2years. The last 2 years before the realization of a recession in october. How did they contribute to the $10.7 trillion?



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 01:44 AM
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Originally posted by southern_Guardian
what the heck was that? Im talking about the last 2years. The last 2 years before the realization of a recession in october. How did they contribute to the $10.7 trillion?


Excuse me? Do you think that it only took 2 years worth of FAILS to get us here? This monster is 30 yrs in the making, until you wake up to that FACT you will NEVER understand the scope of the problem.

2 yrs ROFLMAO



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 01:48 AM
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reply to post by redhatty
 


I dont give a rats ass what you think they did wrong 10 years or 30 years ago. We had a republican congress for six years before they came in back towards the end of 06'.

Now, Ill ask again, what did the democrat congress do over the last two years before October that contributed to the $10.7 trillion? I hear all the time, the democrat congress for the last two years cause the mess, and this was well before the recession became apparent in october, so please answer my question. Its not too hard.



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 02:01 AM
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Originally posted by stevegmu
For one, Democrat after Democrat defended Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac during the 2004 hearings.


This is instance where I will hear "GEORGE BUSH wasn't a real republican"

[edit on 20-2-2009 by stevegmu]






Oh those wicked liberals!



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 02:09 AM
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reply to post by southern_Guardian
 


Okay - you don't give a rats ass about the REAL causes of the crisis, I gotcha - you wanna play your own little game here - okay I'm up for it

9/30/06 $436.6 billion military bill loaded with Earmarks Yeah borderline to your time restrictions, but close enough for government work

$377.6 Billion Defense Spending Bill

$34.8 Billion Homeland Security Spending Bill

Whole List of 2007 Appropriations Billsand 2008 Pork and earmarks

There's the stuff to read through and research, or did you want me to do that for you too?



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 02:20 AM
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reply to post by redhatty
 


Right.. the bi-partisan bill requested by Bush himself. I happy to put part blame to democrats for supporting it, but appears it aint their soul doing, infact it was pushed by Bush himself, and the republican congress.




the $436.6 billion military spending bill passed Friday is packed with them.

The bill, which accounts for about half of federal discretionary spending, includes only a small part of the expected costs of next year’s military operations in Iraq. After the fall elections, President Bush is expected to request another supplemental spending measure to pay for the war, just as the administration has for the last three years.


Oh yes and the $377.6 Billion Defense Spending Bill was sponsered by a a Republican. This was a democrat doing.

Rep Rogers, Harold was a republican who put forward the bill for $34.8 billion.

Again Ill ask you, exactly where did the democrats as sole majority of the congress for the last two years, before october, contribute to the $10.7 trillion debt?



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 02:26 AM
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reply to post by southern_Guardian
 


They passed, right? gave you links to Thomas, you can view the roll call yourself.

If you don't STOP the wasteful spending you are still part of the problem.

Or doesn't that make sense to you? Just like it took 30 yrs for us to get into this mess and you want to focus on ONLY the last 2 years makes sense to you.

There are plenty of "RINO"s in Congress - you do know what that is, right? Republican In Name Only, just in case


Tell me why you think the focus on the last 2 years ALONE is so important - or is it because that is the only time frame you can use to make your thesis valid?



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 02:48 AM
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reply to post by redhatty
 


truth is redhatty, the democrats didnt contribute even $500 billion to this debt or the mess. The bills past that were large were either republican proposed or republican supported, and most pushed by Bush.

I fail to see how the democrats even take a quarter of the responsibility. I understand a $1 wasted is a $1 of tax payer money wasted, but the extent of this mess, its surely looking like its the republicans buddy, and you have not proven otherwise.



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 03:03 AM
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reply to post by southern_Guardian
 


So you can't or you refuse to see how changes in the laws - since the 70's - have allowed the fraud that we are dealing with now?

Because that is what has happened - FRAUD

Banks were allowed to over leverage, promote and write bad loans, sell those bad loans in groups as good Mortgage backed securities and then insure against losses on MBS's with unregulated Credit Default Swaps.

One enormous Ponzi scheme that was ALLOWED to happen by the ONE group of people who had oversight of it all - Congress.

Carter, Reagan, Bush Sr, Clinton and Bush Jr ALL signed bills into laws that help this to happen. Congresses of ALL THOSE ADMINISTRATIONS wrote and passed those bills that became laws.

House oversight, Senate oversight, Congressional oversight - NONE of them did their jobs - and it IS THEIR JOBS to provide OVERSIGHT and find fraud AND STOP IT.

I wish it could be traced to something specifically in the last 2 years, tied up in pretty shiny paper with a bow even, but that isn't the reality of this mess.

And the really screwed up part - I doubt even one single congress critter ever imagined things would end up this far out of hand, even if one or two (or 10,000) voices tried to tell them it would.

A little push here, a little less regulation there, add a quota or two - oh wait, it could hurt the GSEs? Hurt Fannie and Freddie, well give them some more money and they'll hush up, push for more... What - pull back? No way, I'm making money on the side flippin houses through a shell corp I have - we can't stop this - we gotta inflate the housing bubble even MORE, hell it got us out of the dot com recession

Housing will never go down in price, it will always go up.

These are the kinds of thoughts that permeated the last 5 administrations

And guess what - it's stuck in the current admin's head too - my goodness, all they keep chattering about is HOW to get housing prices BACK UP

It is a series of flawed theses and thoughts that have gotten us here.

Don't continue in the same path - we know where it leads and we don't want to go there!



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 03:14 AM
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please stop .. obviously you have an agenda and no intelligence of value to back it up .. shallow or slightly thin ? just sit back and enjoy the ride ..



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 03:46 AM
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reply to post by southern_Guardian
 


Since its obvious that you have your own agenda in this thread and won't listen to the truth what is the point of this thread?

you honestly think that today's problem started 2 years ago? Man you are naive. like redhatty said this problem has been brewing for 30+ years now.

But to answer your question with the 2 year time frame.. every spending bill that has passed the congress in the last 2 years!!! gee i guess you forgot that the democrats have had a majority in both houses of congress the last 2 years. they could have rejected every bill proposed by republicans. did they do it? NO!!!!!!!!! they added pork to every spending bill. But i guess that's ok to you since it went to democrats pet projects.

I guess next your going to say that all those spending bills with excess pork in them, unbalanced budgets, and continuing to fund 2 wars out of the general funds and not financing them with bonds didn't contribute to this mess right? or your going to say the democrat majority couldn't over rule the republican minority?


people like yourself that are to blinded by their own partisan politics make me want to


when your ready to drop your partisan BS and learn the true causes of this mess and when it started redhatty gave you good places to start



[edit on 2/20/2009 by Mercenary2007]



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 04:16 AM
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Originally posted by Mercenary2007
reply to post by southern_Guardian
 


Since its obvious that you have your own agenda in this thread and won't listen to the truth what is the point of this thread?

you honestly think that today's problem started 2 years ago? Man you are naive. like redhatty said this problem has been brewing for 30+ years now.

But to answer your question with the 2 year time frame.. every spending bill that has passed the congress in the last 2 years!!! gee i guess you forgot that the democrats have had a majority in both houses of congress the last 2 years. they could have rejected every bill proposed by republicans. did they do it? NO!!!!!!!!! they added pork to every spending bill. But i guess that's ok to you since it went to democrats pet projects.

I guess next your going to say that all those spending bills with excess pork in them, unbalanced budgets, and continuing to fund 2 wars out of the general funds and not financing them with bonds didn't contribute to this mess right? or your going to say the democrat majority couldn't over rule the republican minority?


people like yourself that are to blinded by their own partisan politics make me want to


when your ready to drop your partisan BS and learn the true causes of this mess and when it started redhatty gave you good places to start



[edit on 2/20/2009 by Mercenary2007]


I think the purpose of this thread was to address the mythology surrounding W and his
share of responsibility in regards to the mess. It seems many on ATS are trying to insinuate that the entirety on this catastrophy falls on the legislative branches exclusively. Or better put, BUSH was a victim, not a participator and its seems this attitude pisses off the OP - myself included.



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 04:41 PM
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I agree that alot of people think Bush is the victim, but also a lot of people the OP included think that he is the only one that caused this mess.

But to truly understand why we are in this mess today people need to drop the partisan finger pointing BS and do some research.

The reality is yes Bush inherited this mess from Clinton, But Clinton inherited it from Bush Sr, who inherited it from Reagan, who got it from Carter. every congress since atleast Carter shares the blame as well as the presidents that were in office at the time.

Also the voters share some responsibility as well, since they voted and kept voting in the same members of congress over and over.

And the people that couldn't live within their means and took advantage of easy credit to by 50" plasma screen tv's Houses that were to expensive and to big for their needs, and luxury cars that they couldn't afford!

the simple fact of the matter is there is no with clean hands in this mess.

The premise of this thread is bogus. the OP really thinks that for the last 2 years a democrat majority controlled congress has done nothing to contribute to this mess.

Again every bill they sent to the president that was loaded with pork is THEIR FAULT! Every budget they passed that wasn't balanced was THEIR FAULT Continuing to fund 2 wars out of the general funds and by not selling bonds to finance them was THEIR FAULT

The first bailout bill for $700 billion that THEY PASSED with no OVERSIGHT was THEIR FAULT

voting to bailout the auto industry adding to the national debt was THEIR FAULT

voting and passing the second stimulus bill which in all honesty is just a wasteful spending bill that WILL NOT HELP THE ECONOMY once again IS THEIR FAULT

So how exactly can the OP honestly say that The Congress hasn't done anything to contribute to this mess again?



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 04:49 PM
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reply to post by southern_Guardian
 


You have to get past the whole Repub/Democrat thing man. The majority of our representatives have been taking the handouts, playing the game, making a bit here and a bit there on the side for a LONG time now. They've played just as much a role as the media has in letting this whole mess get to this point.




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