Taxpayers Risk $9.7 Trillion on Bailouts as Senate Votes

So 10 Trillion works out to like $66,000 for every working american (about half the population). So they take 66 grand from me and give it to the Bankers and send me a $500 thank you check? What a deal!

Three american banks hold some $160 Trillion of Derivatives (Bets), and they're still writing them. It's like having an uncle with a gambling addiction and putting $10 toward his $160 debt and expecting everything to magically turn around. Worse yet, that 160 Trillion is only part of the 1 Quadrillion in worldwide derivatives (Bets). The Bankers decided to play with leverage and gambling and now We The People are being made to go Bankrupt.

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar


Sounds like you know something about these derivatives. Is the damage then already done? Are we basically screwed even before the Stimuli get going? I'm not clear on what happens when we can't pay this stuff back or even the interest on it. The way I understand it, there is no collateral on these bonds that are sold so there's not much the debt holders can do except hope for the best. What will be the Real World consequences of these actions now being taken by the government?

If you add the already existing debt to the 9.7 trillions, you have a total of around 22 trillions in debt or 154% of GDP at current levels.

Of course the GDP will decrease and the debt will go up even more.

The US would have the 4th biggest debt to GDP ratio, just below Japan.

If we have a reduction of 20% of GDP, so 10% less than in the Great Depression (-30% GDP), the GDP will be 11.44 trillions, with a debt of over 22 trillions... so just under 200% debt to GDP ratio... just under ZIMBABWE.

It can happen and it ain't looking good.

A good article on the stimulus bill, it's flaws...

reply to post by RFBurns


This problem has gone past writing letters, sending emails or calling your representative. I used to believe that could do some good but they vote how they are told by the globalists, then we somehow vote them right back in.

IMHO, if you haven't prepared or are not in the process of preparing your family for SHTF scenarios then you really have your head in the sand or don't care what happens.

reply to post by earlywatcher


The American tax payer will be paying for the interest for generations to come, as the we have been "bailing out" the financial since 2007 when they were called "cash infusions", now they are "stimulus" under "stimulus" we have already two, first to the tax payer when Bush gave away a miserable refund that actually went to prop the China economy.

The second was called "bail out" to the financial.

Now a third one that will be called "Economical stimulus" if we add all of them including the "cash infusions" we are already in the trillions of dollars in debt. to be added to the "Nations deficit".

Still the question is "how many stimulus and bail out will take to bankrupt the nation"

Originally posted by mpriebe81
China pretty much owns us.
It's looking pretty grim isn't it?

i think we probably have about 20 years left before china becomes the next biggest, bad*ss on the world stage. i think america will go along the lines of how britian kinda faded from being the super power in the 1800's

reply to post by earlywatcher


The only answer to the problem is based on the Biblical Year of Jubilee. Every fifty years all Debts were canceled. This was to keep from exactly what we are beginning to see in parts of the world, destruction of the social order. People will simply refuse to be made into Debt Slaves. Although it could be said that we have been in that condition for some time, we have hit a terminal phase in the Debt cycle and the charade is going to end.

22 Trillion leaves out mcr, mcd, ss. Our liabilities as a nation are closer to 70 Trillion! Baby boomers are retiring, option arms are reseting, etc,etc

I personally don't buy into the 'We'll be paying for this forever' camp. Wishful thinking IMO. The intent is to inflate this debt away through hyperinflation and let the chips fall where they may. Which in a nuclear world can have dire consequences. Not to mention that hyperinflation destroys the business cycle. How can you run a business when the raw materials will cost more tomorrow than the profits you made today?

While I do believe there is a conspiracy to enslave the working population, I don't believe the gov't is capable of pulling it off (Katrina anyone?). They will mismanage this thing into some kind of catastrophe where they lose control.



[edit on 10-2-2009 by HimWhoHathAnEar]

My ideas to help combat this for the future from happening. I am not an expert so anyone with better knowledge please feel free to chime in.

What exactly is the reason why the US is "going under" economy wise?
My Answer: Globalization. Mainly jobs. The US keeps outsourcing jobs to overseas manufacturers and tech companies. The job loss affect all here in the US as the job market becomes highly competitive. How can we pay bills and spend money if we do not have jobs? Spending money keeps our economy turning. Right?

Here is what I think a solution could be. Tax the heck on outsourcing jobs. Rig it to where it is just as expensive to outsource as it would be to keep the jobs here in America. Increases jobs available. People would be able to pay bills and eat. Stop the bad debt (especially credit cards). Have strict regulations for all lenders who would approve potentially bad loans. If you cannot afford the monthly payments or you are borderline not able to afford the monthly payments you probably should not take on additional financial burden. Instead of spending this "bailout" money on the banks, what they could do is gather up the excess bills starting with bad defunct ones first and pay off equal percentages of bad debt. Give the people a chance. Anyone whom receives this payoff is temporarily banned for using and applying for more credit pending scrutenous review when ban is lifted. People would have jobs, those who cannot pay off debt would have less burden. So what if the cost of goods raises. By Made in America! It supports US jobs and keeps millions in work.

Any ideas or modifications of if this could work?

reply to post by Amaxium


I vote yes.

I just heard the President say, though, that relief is on the way.

Unemployed workers are going to get $100 more per month. w00t.

And the whole section of the bill (see Drudge for the bloomberg article) where they nationalize medical records (pages 411 through 525 I believe) is apparently because "nurses can't read doctor's handwriting".

At least that's what he just told a crowd in Fort Myers ten minutes ago.

He also praised the efficiency of the electronic credit card system and thinks we need to use that model for medical records.

Is it just me or was anybody paying attention when thousands and thousands of credit card identity thefts have occurred?

reply to post by Amaxium


Unfortunately it is too late to fix this. 70% of GDP was consumption. Once the consumption/credit cycle was broken, it became a self reinforcing spiral. There were a handful of us on ATS that were crying this stuff from the rooftops back when the DOW was at 14,000 and everyone thought the good times would never end. I remember back then the naysayers were arguing over the proper definition of a Recession.

Consumption is over and a large portion of our GDP is going with it. So while our income is falling, we are adding staggering amounts of Debt. This will not end well.

reply to post by HimWhoHathAnEar


Thanks my friend for bringing this up. We are nothing than a nation of consumers that now can not even support that consumption anymore.

If the stimulus pass the GDP will have a boost but no in the way that may think, this will be again consuming foreign goods bringing the trade deficit to a new high.

We all have a function, and if ours has been to be consumers then who is to take on that position next? The world has come to expect to sell us all their stuff. Take China. Without us to buy all those things they are manufacturing, who will support their economy? Unless they can be self supporting the way the South Africans learned to be during apartheid. Can China emerge as the next superpower without global markets?

It seems that Geithner plans to transparently hide his every move by involving the Fed and all sorts of other manipulations that will prevent us from following what is happening. There is no telling what will come of that operation. If it is successful, it sounds like it will end up being a nationalization of the financial industry. Maybe our current administration wants us to BECOME China.

First Bush and Paulson and now Obama and Geithner are doing everything in their power to terrify us into accepting anything they want to do. If we are indeed doomed, we need to figure out what our next move, as citizens, is to be. We may soon be facing shortages of all basic necessities if things are as dire as the president predicts.

This list of projects in obama's spending bill seems like taking advantage of an opportunity to buy your entire wish list. I simply don't see how it can improve the actual situation.

reply to post by marg6043


Marg, you are one of the handful that I mentioned that has seen this coming a long time ago. The stimulus is just good money after bad. We sold the farm a long time ago. Taking out another loan to carry us another month does nothing to change the reality of our situation.

At best we are headed for third world nation status. At worst there will be war and revolution. While Pakistan and Iran perculate, Mexico is teetering on the brink of collapse as the drug wars starts to spill across the border. California is bankrupt and social unrest spreads in Europe/Russia/China. And on and on.........

I guess the one thing I find interesting about all this is the climate changes, volcanic activity, and lack of solar activity that have all converged at the same time as we are entering this phase of economic and financial upheaval. The man made disasters of war and economic collapse have gone hand in hand forever. Coupled with events beyond human control however............

reply to post by earlywatcher


China has 5 times the population of the US. That population needs all the infrastructure of the modern world. And thanks to globalization, they now have our manufacturing capacity. The US grew up on its own, why couldn't China? They're starting to see that we are going to default on our Debt which is going to wipe out all the savings they have from selling us stuff cheap while screwing their own work force. If they can realize that creating a middle class in their own country would make them an economic super power, then we will see a very different world within a decade.

Because if capitalism and consumption go hand in hand, then whoever has the biggest population should win. I'm not sure that this isn't what 'decoupling' looks like. No one ever said it was going to be pretty. Change often isn't.