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WORLD: UN fabricates story of Israel shelling UNRWA school in Gaza (Confirmed)

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posted on Feb, 19 2009 @ 11:16 PM
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Originally posted by golemina
reply to post by deccal
 

An honest observer knows what a genocide looks like... and what happened in Gaza doesn't fit the bill in any way, shape or form.

Finally, as to the notion that ALL of those 1300 casualties were civilians...

Who is doing the counting?

They've never been caught lying about that have they?



I didn't think so.

Actually, deccal didn't say that ALL of them were civilians. Just that the number of deaths was 1300.

You have misrepresented what was actually said to discredit someone for something they didn't say.

Perhaps the term "honest observer" being used twice in your post is a little hypocritical?

Genocide, by International Law is

any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.



Seeing as Palestine is not on the map and people do not have a Palestinian citizenship, because Palestine as a nation no longer exists... their race has been subject to the systamatic and planned extermination in its entirety.

It does infact "fit the bill" and it is genocide.




posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 02:11 PM
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Originally posted by Obliterated


Actually, deccal didn't say that ALL of them were civilians. Just that the number of deaths was 1300.

You have misrepresented what was actually said to discredit someone for something they didn't say.


It makes a big difference in the relevance of the 1300 number, how many were combatants vs. civilians though. It also makes a big difference if you're trying to make the case that ethnic cleansing has been going on.




Genocide, by International Law is

any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

(a) Killing members of the group;

(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;

(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;

(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;

(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.



Seeing as Palestine is not on the map and people do not have a Palestinian citizenship, because Palestine as a nation no longer exists... their race has been subject to the systamatic and planned extermination in its entirety.

It does infact "fit the bill" and it is genocide.



Can you show any other example where the term genocide has been tossed about, where the fatalities were 1300(especially if a large number of them were in fact combatants)? Additionally, as I already stated, the relevance of that number has a lot to do with how many were combatants or not.

As for Palestine on the map/citizenship as evidence of genocide, you may want to look at what folks like Yassar Arafat and Zahir Muhsein have to say about "Palestine."

www.worldnetdaily.com...

Way back on March 31, 1977, the Dutch newspaper Trouw published an interview with Palestine Liberation Organization executive committee member Zahir Muhsein. Here's what he said:


The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct "Palestinian people" to oppose Zionism.

For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan.



In fact, on the same day Arafat signed the Declaration of Principles on the White House lawn in 1993, he explained his actions on Jordan TV. Here's what he said: "Since we cannot defeat Israel in war, we do this in stages. We take any and every territory that we can of Palestine, and establish a sovereignty there, and we use it as a springboard to take more. When the time comes, we can get the Arab nations to join us for the final blow against Israel."



in the history of the world, Palestine has never existed as a nation. The region known as Palestine was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire and, briefly, by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their ancestral homeland. It was never ruled by Arabs as a separate nation.



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 03:12 PM
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reply to post by BlueRaja
 


BlueRaja it is not for the Palestinians to justify their existence, they are there. It is for Israel to explain why it suddenly appeared out of the blue.



posted on Feb, 20 2009 @ 10:17 PM
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reply to post by BlueRaja
 


from the 1300 figured....

The PMoH stated that 437 children under the age of 16, 110 women, 123 elderly men, 14 medics, and four journalists were among those killed. The wounded include 1,890 children
en.wikipedia.org...


Can you show any other example where the term genocide has been tossed about, where the fatalities were 1300(especially if a large number of them were in fact combatants)? Additionally, as I already stated, the relevance of that number has a lot to do with how many were combatants or not.

As for Palestine on the map/citizenship as evidence of genocide, you may want to look at what folks like Yassar Arafat and Zahir Muhsein have to say about "Palestine."


The 1300 figure is deaths within a 1 month period. This conflict didn't start last year. It began over 60 years ago and has continued for over 60 years. When Israel came in, 700,000 people became refugees, they were forced out of their homes. These people have not been able to return to their homes.

In 1977 when that was said, there was no such thing as Palestine. Since 1948, Palestine and the Palestinian people have not existed.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 08:41 AM
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reply to post by masonwatcher
 


Explain? Explain like Mexico needs to explain? Australia? The United States? What deluded Jew-hating world do you live in where Israel appeared "out of the blue?"



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by dbates
reply to post by Obliterated
 

I'm not sure how you get that the population in Gaza was over 1 million in 1997. The Gaza population was under 1 million till 1998. See the official Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics. You're correct about some of the migration, which was at it's highest in 2000. Since 2000 however, the migration rate has been flat yet the population is still growing at nearly a 4% rate.


Pro-Israelis like you tend to flip around notoriously. One moment you allege that Palestinians use their children as human shields then turn around and say that they make too many. Palestinians are family oriented and love their babies. I contrast, Israel has a thriving abortion industry.

Gaza is a conglomeration of refugee camp; every settler squat and Israeli state land grab results in a Palestinian turning into a refugee and leaving the West Bank and heading for Gaza, hence the compound population growth in Gaza.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by masonwatcher
every settler squat and Israeli state land grab results in a Palestinian turning into a refugee and leaving the West Bank and heading for Gaza, hence the compound population growth in Gaza.
\

You're just pulling that out of your hat. Please do try and find at least one shred of evidence to back up what you're saying. If you looked at the same website link in the text that that you quoted you'd see how baseless you're rebuttal is. Please view the following page on the official Palestinian Government's web site and view the stats for yourself.

Projected Mid -Year Population in The Palestinian Territory by Governorate (2001-2006)

The population is steadily increasing in all areas of the Palestinian territories. If anything you're accusations merely reflect the current mindset of propaganda that the U.N. pushes about the state of Israel and it's actions. While the general perception being pushed by organizations like the U.N. is that the Palestinians are being systematically wiped out, nothing could be further from the truth.

This is why the anti-Israeli agenda pushers want to focus on and recycle the same select photos and stories and avoid the actual investigation of what's really happening. It's pure propaganda. They hope that if they repeat their story often enough that it will be believed. We only need to arm ourselves with the truth to see through this.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by masonwatcher
 


I think you might find `if you are interested in the truth ` that there were 5/6 hundred killed and all were young men. Also the 43 deaths were hamas, but you dont really want the truth. I thought that this site was for discovering lies, seems i made an error!.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by masonwatcher
 


I think you might find `if you are interested in the truth ` that there were 5/6 hundred killed and all were young men. Also the 43 deaths were hamas, but you dont really want the truth. I thought that this site was for discovering lies, seems i made an error!.


So the dead bodies of babies and women was all a world wide hallucination? Ok then, I will get all my information from American zionists and the Israeli state. Problem solved.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 03:57 PM
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The radical Muslim aggressors not only use women and children as shields, and as propaganda, they also use them as weapons, by turning their women into baby making machines, and ignoring the poverty and hopelessness they create for their own children.

The propaganda machine has been in full attack mode for decades now. If you watched Malcom X, it was easy to see all the same false accusations being thrown about that are continuously thrown about on these types of threads, that essentially promote racism against whites, and try to lay the blame of the third world, and the actions of third world dictators on the West. It really makes one begin to re-think the way the West has been trying to promote humanitarian efforts.



posted on Feb, 21 2009 @ 10:57 PM
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reply to post by poet1b
 




West Bank annual population growth rate of 1.8% and a 2.9% rate for Gaza
over the same period. Between the narrower time frame of 2000 and 2003,
annual growth was slightly lower at 1.6% for the West Bank and 2.8% for
Gaza.
www.biu.ac.il/Besa/MSPS65.pdf
See page 41.

Population growth:
In 1922 there were 83,790 Jews in Palestine.
By 1945 there was about 500,000.
In 23 years their population didn't double... But you can multiply it by 6.


You can then take the 1945 figure and multiply it 11. Now there is about 5.3million Jews in Israel(2006- www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...).


The total population of Israel including Muslims, Jews, Christians, etc... is 7.1million in total www.cia.gov... .

Subtract 5.3million from 7.1million and that leaves 1.8million non-Jews?

The numbers seem to be a little low don't you think


I think either the birth rates have been fabricated or the death rates are insanely high. Alternatively, more and more are becoming refugees. Either way the numbers don't add up to fit the propaganda.

[edit on 21-2-2009 by Obliterated]



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 12:14 AM
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reply to post by Obliterated
 


Most of Israel's population growth has come from immigration. The answer is clear. Do you have something against legal immigration?

This still doesn't change the fact that Muslims have the largest population growth of all groups. At current population growths, as stated in links I have already provided here, the current Palestinian birth rate is so high they are expected to out number Jews in Israel in a few generations. This is a problem being repeated all over where Muslim live or immigrate.



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 01:03 PM
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Originally posted by masonwatcher

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
reply to post by masonwatcher
 


I think you might find `if you are interested in the truth ` that there were 5/6 hundred killed and all were young men. Also the 43 deaths were hamas, but you dont really want the truth. I thought that this site was for discovering lies, seems i made an error!.


So the dead bodies of babies and women was all a world wide hallucination? Ok then, I will get all my information from American zionists and the Israeli state. Problem solved.


No one has said that women and children haven't been killed or wounded. Where the debate lies is what percentage of the total fatalities were intended target vs. collateral damage. The deaths of innocents are tragic, but the responsibility is on the Hamas fighters who put them in danger in the first place.



posted on Feb, 23 2009 @ 01:06 PM
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Originally posted by Obliterated
reply to post by BlueRaja
 


from the 1300 figured....

The PMoH stated that 437 children under the age of 16, 110 women, 123 elderly men, 14 medics, and four journalists were among those killed. The wounded include 1,890 children
en.wikipedia.org...


Can you show any other example where the term genocide has been tossed about, where the fatalities were 1300(especially if a large number of them were in fact combatants)? Additionally, as I already stated, the relevance of that number has a lot to do with how many were combatants or not.

As for Palestine on the map/citizenship as evidence of genocide, you may want to look at what folks like Yassar Arafat and Zahir Muhsein have to say about "Palestine."


The 1300 figure is deaths within a 1 month period. This conflict didn't start last year. It began over 60 years ago and has continued for over 60 years. When Israel came in, 700,000 people became refugees, they were forced out of their homes. These people have not been able to return to their homes.

In 1977 when that was said, there was no such thing as Palestine. Since 1948, Palestine and the Palestinian people have not existed.



We aren't discussing the creation of Israel, or the past 60yrs of history. We're discussing the month long siege in Gaza against Hamas militants. Israel is here to stay. The question is whether or not the Palestinians choose to live along side them in peace, or continue to hope for the destruction of Israel.



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 01:54 AM
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reply to post by poet1b
 


Did you even read my post?

If you did, you would have seen the population figures which i presented which show that the population numbers of Palestinians in Israel have infact fallen and are not growing. And you would have also noticed that the place you are obtaining your "proof" from is incorrect and does not match the total figures of Palestinians in Israel.

As for the Muslim population growth, the topic is about Israel and Palestine not Muslims.

Your argument is irrelevant. For arguments sake here are some facts and figures....

This was Christianity's growth rate by %

World Mission claimed a growth rate of 2.3% for the period 1970 to 1996


As at 2007 it dropped...

World Christian Database as of 2007 estimated the growth rate of Christianity at 1.32%


Now this is the growth figures of Islam

World Christian Database as of 2007 estimated that the fastest growing of the five largest religions in the world by percentage to be Islam (1.84%)


There is a .52 difference as at 2007. However, the Christian growth rate was .46 higher than this before 1996.


Christianity was the fastest growing religion in the world with 30,360,000 new adherents in 2006. This was followed by Islam with 23,920,000 and Hinduism with 13,224,000 estimated new adherents in the same period


en.wikipedia.org...

Christianity is the fastest growing religion in terms of population growth. Not Islam. Islam is the fastest growing in terms of percentage only.

However Christianity used to have the highest growing in terms of population and percentage. Your argument is an exageration of the facts. It is aso an argument which has nothing to do with the topic.






[edit on 24-2-2009 by Obliterated]



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 02:43 AM
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reply to post by BlueRaja
 



We aren't discussing the creation of Israel, or the past 60yrs of history. We're discussing the month long siege in Gaza against Hamas militants. Israel is here to stay. The question is whether or not the Palestinians choose to live along side them in peace, or continue to hope for the destruction of Israel.



I don't know how that became the reply to my post... but anyway...

Israeli's are still seizing land for settlements.... Palestinians have no choice in the matter. Peace is not up to them and never has been, it's up to the occupiers who keep harassing them.



posted on Feb, 24 2009 @ 11:13 AM
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Originally posted by Obliterated
reply to post by BlueRaja
 



We aren't discussing the creation of Israel, or the past 60yrs of history. We're discussing the month long siege in Gaza against Hamas militants. Israel is here to stay. The question is whether or not the Palestinians choose to live along side them in peace, or continue to hope for the destruction of Israel.



I don't know how that became the reply to my post... but anyway...

Israeli's are still seizing land for settlements.... Palestinians have no choice in the matter. Peace is not up to them and never has been, it's up to the occupiers who keep harassing them.


Israelis, or Israel?

here's but one example that took 5 seconds of typing to find

www.haaretz.com...

There are numerous stories of Israeli settlers being forced to move by the IDF, so to try to portray settlements as the official policy of Israel is disengeuous.



posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 02:58 AM
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reply to post by Obliterated
 


How many times does it need to be pointed out to you that wikipedia references have no credibility. The sources I have posted are far better. Anyone can post the information on wikipedia.



posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 03:46 AM
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reply to post by poet1b
 



The data base shows that 44.6% of the
population in the Palestinian Territory are refugees. They are estimated to be 1.8 million
at the mid year of 2007, of which 780,000 31.0% are in the West Bank and more than one
million 67.6% are in Gaza Strip.
www.pcbs.pna.org...

here you go, these are population figures of Palestinians within the Israeli borders. The source is Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics (PCBS)



posted on Feb, 25 2009 @ 03:54 AM
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reply to post by BlueRaja
 




Israelis, or Israel?

here's but one example that took 5 seconds of typing to find

www.haaretz.com...

There are numerous stories of Israeli settlers being forced to move by the IDF, so to try to portray settlements as the official policy of Israel is disengeuous.


Here is what I said.....
"Israeli's are still seizing land for settlements...."

I said Israeli's not Israel. Regardless, that doesn't change the fact that 75% of the settlements are illegal under Israels laws. Yet these people aren't forced out like the people they forced out, are they?.



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