In the event of Civil War......

reply to post by Electro38


(If someone else has made this point already I apologize.)

Seriously, just because I am concerned about my civil liberties that make me a drug user? Doing what essentially amounts to name calling on this forum is childish and a waste of our time.

I personally think a lot of people here are just having idle conversation, but a lot of people, including myself, are very concerned about the possibilities of having our rights stripped away, even if it is done slowly and silently. America currently stands as the standard to which all other societies are compared to, and if we falter and allow more restrictions and controls to be enforced, then it is simply a matter of time before the rest of the world follows suit. The only thing worse than an America which is no longer free, is a world without any truly free countries.

Additionally, to those whose say those of us on this forum are not aware of how lucky we are, I at least stand as a counter-example. I have travelled the world extensively and am fully aware of just how lucky I am. This understanding only makes me fight all the harder to ensure my rights remain mine

Originally posted by Dbriefed

....And there's another strange tangent to this that may catch everyone blindsided.

Hillary Clinton. Lookout. She is currently 4th in the line of succession as Secretary of State.

Given some of the notorious legacies of the Clinton name, yes I would be surprised, but still. Omama, Biden, Pelosi...

OMG, PELOSI?!? That would bypass tax revolt and go straight to Civil War! She is the most evil and criminal Senator!

I hate slow 56k dialups. I just respond to these as I read 'em, sorry for all the posts, that's what ATS is here for though, right. The collection of collective thoughts.

Anyways, why is it so often forgotten that Pelosi is Bill Clinton's Cousin? Therefore, she is a Clinton also. And third in line to the throne, well ahead of Hillary Clinton, who may sit upon it next Term.

OK, first things first. To answer some quesitons.

I am indeed from here. I was born, and raised in Missouri. Right smack dab in the middle of the united states of America. I am a mother of 3 kids. I was raised by both parents. My dad, an exMarine who was a steel worker after his time in Vietnam. Both of my Grandpas were Marines as well, both served in WWII. I come from a proud family, as many of us do. Hard working Americans.

I like what I read about the whole tax revolt thing. It has happened before, and always seemed to work. I would not be surprised to see something like that soon. The tax checks are not the only thing in California that will not be going out. I read that they will not be able to send out wellfare checks either. I dont think that will stop with California. There are too many states who are broke. Couple that with the unemployment rate climbing. Washington is pretty close to not getting their checks either. The moment that happens, I think the poop will seriously hit the fan.

Also, I didnt want to start talking about this for the whole "doom and gloom" effect. This is a serious concern in my community.

Civil war in the United States will happen if...

1. Obama is assi__ted.

2. If Bush is prosecuted by the Democrats.

3. If the economy fails.

4. If Obama abandons Israel.


I think "2" is almost certain, "1" is also possible. "3" would still take ten years to wipe out all of our national wealth. "4" is likely but would also take a few years to divide the nation. So I think it's more likely that the Democrats will attempt to prosecute Bush and if so there will be civil strife at best and civil war at worst.

The key differences between a civil war and revolutionary war are as follows: In a civil war, two or more factions of the same society fight each other for idealogical control over the others. In a revolutionary war you have citizens fighting to overthrow the existing government. Where they share simililarities is the the winning "Side" is able to impose it's will upon the losers. I think the confusion is often rooted in the similarities without understanding the core difference.

Actually, I see both occuring at once, Ideaologs of the left, right, and center vs. one another, as evidenced by all the political arguments over what to do. And A class war between the have and have nots, based upon their ideas of themselves and others, and a truce based unity to attack the source (Ie: Government, Corporate, and Financial Sectors, etc.. based not only upon conflicting perceived Ideaologies and Class, but, also, due to the entities Societal Functions being among the cheif source of Societies ill's). Add to that the truce's that will come about to Fend off Predatory enemies and Nations which will fuel and inject themselves into the profitable sides, the projected winner's sides, and the least profitable sides, and the projected loser's sides in a Machiavellian approach of instigation to maximize potential profits and to minimalize or control what will be lost for maximum overall profitability.
I predict a nightmare scenario.
A new modern type of War, and I can see other Nation's following suit. I can see a Global War with no clear lines being drawn anywhere or by anyone. I see, all out Global War over who will ultimately rule over who.

And all it will take is one little shot to be heard "round the World" over all the other shots already being fired.
Who's side would you be on when there are really no sides at all?

There's my gloom and doom prediction.

[edit on 24-1-2009 by PhyberDragon]

[edit on 24-1-2009 by PhyberDragon]

Originally posted by Fromabove
4. If Obama abandons Israel.

Ok, you got me there. That is the first time I have heard that one. Would you mind expanding on that a bit please?

Originally posted by PaulKCA
The conflict between light and dark will never be won by killing fellow humans, ultimately the conflict exists within ourselves. Instead of focusing on the dark thus giving it energy, we must focus on the light and transmute it permanently. The larger the groups emanating light the greater the effect on a dark world. To kill hatred and fear requires Love and Compassion, the only way that humanity will evolve is when we ALL are able to exist this way. Until ALL of us do exist this way we ALL will repeat this paradigm.

I wonder if those who find themselves in armed conflict, who either have no weapon or put down their weapon, ever saw the light and convinced the others to search for it as well. Maybe, they did see the light, but, I'm guessing, in most cases, the darkness soon followed.

Originally posted by LeTan
Would I fight to take my country back from the hands of the corrupt so that my fellow man can live the way they want with the constitution unabused? Absolutely, and I would have no qualms about dying for it.

The country is already in the hands of the corrupt, and people cannot live the way they want, and the Constitution is abused.

So what are you waiting for... why aren't you already fighting and dying for it?

Originally posted by PhyberDragon

Originally posted by PaulKCA
The conflict between light and dark will never be won by killing fellow humans, ultimately the conflict exists within ourselves. Instead of focusing on the dark thus giving it energy, we must focus on the light and transmute it permanently. The larger the groups emanating light the greater the effect on a dark world. To kill hatred and fear requires Love and Compassion, the only way that humanity will evolve is when we ALL are able to exist this way. Until ALL of us do exist this way we ALL will repeat this paradigm.

I wonder if those who find themselves in armed conflict, who either have no weapon or put down their weapon, ever saw the light and convinced the others to search for it as well. Maybe, they did see the light, but, I'm guessing, in most cases, the darkness soon followed.

Oh they ultimtely see the light...unfortunately for them the light is from a muzzleflash...

I will fight for my side. It is high time the world stop this bloody nonsense. Everyone wants a good future and to climb the latter to heaven, and yet we take the express way to hell in trying to do so.

Screw the rest of you. (No offense) But I'm tired of humans acting like this. I want to see maturity in the human race...God damned it how far have we come to continue this effort in futility?

Enjoy your war.

[edit on 24-1-2009 by projectvxn]

Originally posted by GenRadek
reply to post by PhoenixDemon

 

But we don't have access to mil-grade explosives as readily as they do in Afghanistan or Iraq. all we would have is homemade stuff that is not mil-grade. unless someone raids a military base successfully. Which i doubt.

You are clearly unaware of how much military arms and munitions, vehicles and weaponary alike really exist in America. Further you must be unaware of all the high tech and low tech arms and munitions capable designers and makers are really out there. homemade weapons grade C4 only requires a few local ingredients, like bleach and clay or even a weak flour based composition, a hot plate and a car battery tester, some Pyrex and wallah! You have the salt to knead into the clay, wire it to a phone, battery, whatever. Some PVC, Radio Shack Solenoid relays, etc. You can havea mine or a makeshift rocket or grenade propelled launcher, with easy to manufacture payloads. Go raid a meth lab or a pot farm sometime. Ex Military aren't the only ones who can cook or brew up some quick, cheap, and effective perimeter defenses, booby traps, and all around defenses. Check out an organized gang or mob or crime syndicate sometime, find out how well stock piled they really are, and see if they aren't deadly proficient too. How about all those rednecks, patriots, hill billies, hicks, city slickers, and the like. Plus all those Military and Ex- Military. And don't think all those hacker's, cracker's, and "geeks" won't have a contribution either.
Folks really should set down that hallucinogenic mead they call Kool Aid, open their eyes to the real world and get out more

Originally posted by downtown436
I don't see a civil war coming. I see a revolution coming. I will fight on the side that supports the constitution and bill of rights. The Military will play a big role in this, and we will see the good side of the U.S. armed forces come out as they will whole heartedly smash the evil traitors that are running things. I will join with the "rebel" military forces that will surface.

It WILL result in a period of lawlessness and anarchy. When the smoke clears we have to keep in mind what our founding fathers had in mind, and refresh the great REPUBLIC we live in, and live by the rule of LAW. This will ensure our ability to be a free, and productive nation of non slaves for generations to come.

We need to take drastic measures to make sure that the flaws of our current system are eliminated, by having a new system of checks and balances that completely eliminates the possiblity of corruption.

Good luck, and stand tall. We the People will win this, there is no doubt.

What if we aren't for a representative republic? But rather, in light of the height of technology, Communication, and transportation, that is to say, as it doesn't take months, but, seconds to deliver mail (e- mail) we no longer need faulty representative government. What if we opt for a True democracy? Not a Democracy, but, a True Democracy. King Arthur's Round Table, neither head nor foot, one voice one vote, and all that jazz?

reply to post by Electro38


Electro... I am a middle American man. I worry about my country first! When all the problems with my country are fixed, I will look into others problems. 99% of the problems in other countries are caused by those countries. Not my problem... The US is my problem. I will pick up a gun if my family is threatened.

Awww... human rights issues in China.... Poor babies.... The Chinese need to stand up and do something about it just like the Americans did. This country did not become the place EVERYONE wants to come by chance... It took blood sweat and tears... Genocide... Not in my back yard, not my problem... Illegals aliens killing people in my town, Yes, my problem... Government taking my money and giving it to someone too lazy to work, Yes, My problem...




Mod Note: Trim Those Quotes - Please Review this link




[edit on 24-1-2009 by DontTreadOnMe]

Originally posted by mrsdudara

So lets say Civil War does erupt. Whose side are you on? Better yet, how many sides are there? Are the sides already decided? Lines already drawn?

In the event of a civil war there is no point in choosing a side to be 'on'.

The best thing to do is to escape the situation or conflict all together, and if necessary act as if you are on the side of the majority around you just long enough to get away from them and the 'war'.

If a 'civil war' gets too close and the fighting threatens the safety of my family then I don't care what side they are on, I will defend myself and loved ones first.

I don't believe there will ever be a civil war though.... People are too easily entertained to ever be involved in substantial numbers... Too many would be watching on television and the 'war' would be quickly ended by the 'authorities'.

There could be rioting and 'civil unrest' during a worsening financial crisis, or worse, a presidential assassination of Barack Obama. In that case again I suggest escape is the best option anyone has.

The notion that some people have that 'the people' can some how take on the government and US military is a fantasy, it will never happen, and for the few who try it will be a quick suicide.

Your odds of winning the next mega cash lottery is likely better than the remote possibility of any of the above.

So relax!


Cheers!


[edit on 24-1-2009 by Walkswithfish]

Originally posted by withpride09
I think Americans are mostly all talk and no aciton. They'll gripe about whatever the gov't throws at them but that's about it. I don't see a revolution.

[edit on 24-1-2009 by withpride09]

And your Country is Superior, how?

We may be hated and despised, but, it's not because we sit on our arses. The fact that we don't do anything is probably because we've spent so long sticking our dollars and military might and civilian products and services into all of your lives for so long that we are just tired. And have done and put up with so much crap from all these do nothing about their own problems for a change Countries, that we have the calm cool and collected patience enough to complain and make contingency arrangements needed or not, but, the historical and educated awareness enough to know when, where, and how a strike would be needed. Not that all Countries are undeserving of our help, wanted or not, or are deserving all the time. Just that. If American Government were overthrown, sorry Foreigners, fact is, we lazy whiny spoiled snot nosed Americans are the only ones who have a snowball's chance in Hell of pulling it off. Where we lack faith is in ya'll's ability to do the same about your own. So give up another gun and grab your beer, cause once they tax that to death, you won't even have that.
Americans are not lazy or unable, we're just smart enough not to self- destruct over the dumbest of things, and we endure quite alot more than most ungrateful nations could ever handle. So mind your place, or, be reminded that we ARE the last Super Power standing. Can you claim as much?

I live in Amercia.
I wasn't saying we are lazy. I was saying we complain and gripe but noone really does anything about it. It wasn't meant to offend.
And I know a lot of people who complain about this or that and I ask do you ever write the congress, or take action? The answer is no. It may not help but at least you can try. And yes, I do take action.

[edit on 24-1-2009 by withpride09]

Heres a question to some of the members here...

Do you want a civil war to happen or do you want to go beyond just blaming government and start looking for solutions among the populous?

I would like to contribute to this thread, but stating my opinions might put me on a list, and I dont want to be on that list.


Not yet anyway....


Let me just say this. I love my country, but it's government scares me.

reply to post by Electro38


Actually, I am a middle American, and while I share the same concerns as you, I'm afraid that you fail to realize that you are the type of American who does not seem to want to wake up.

I don't fantacize. I don't plot. I have seen what goes on while people like you aren't looking. And if you are, you not really comprehending what you see. i may not type to your satisfaction, but, do not assume smoking pot equals lazy, crazy, fanatical, or wrong. Actually, if there were an out break of violence, I would venture to guess who would be on which side of what fence.

Sad really. Sadder still that folks don't see the real potential of it occuring.
I'm not in fear or anxiety of anything I'm aware of, I'm paranoid of nothing I'm aware of, not even about expressing my views online for all to see and OMG monitor, and I'm not fantasizing, inciting, promoting, detracting, or dreaming up anything. I am neither a child nor an embicile. And I can see that this site and related sites are not the only source of these veiws. Perhaps some people are so stand offish in their veiws and set in their ways that their fellows and families or what not, just don't discuss such things with or around them, I don't know, but, I doubt it's election based, as die hard republicans, democrats, independants, and don't give a crap's from all walks of life have discussed as much quite regularly and more so with each passing year. They know there's a rising tension, that you don't makes me wonder why you even bother to engage a thread you think so outrageous a potential conspiratorial premise. Unless, maybe, you're bored, curious, an adamant detractor, or a government plant meant to disinform, redirect, or incite the conversation. Well, it is a conspiracy site and one never knows. By you I mean you in a pluralistic sense. There I go with run ons and bad typing again. LOL Like I care. Well Good Night All.