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In the event of Civil War......

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posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 11:55 AM
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reply to post by Anonymous ATS
 


Respectfully, while you may be right that people will migrate to their own ethnic groups I think you will be surprised at how quickly that old paradigm goes out the window. I believe that in the face of mutual survivability most people will be concerned with surrounding themselves with those that will help them achieve that goal.

I'm reminded of September 11th and NYC Blackout shortly after where the ties that bound us together crossed all color and socio-economic lines. The spirit that was present in the city was something truly amazing to behold. Anything infinitely more devastating that 9-11 would only serve to bring us together even more quickly.


The PTB plan on us being divisive but I think they will be sadly mistaken when that doesn't occur. At least I hope it doesn't occur.

- L2L




posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 01:29 PM
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There are a multitude of instances of people trying to incite open revolution. Here is a thread chocked with veiled threats of violence. thread

There are numerous frequent posters that make threats and pick at the festering wounds in some of the more violence prone minds here. I never said a time for revolution won't come, I merely stated my opinion.

As for 'firing' our politicians, the Declaration of Independence affords us the rights granted by our Creator and our forefathers to oust the bums when needed.



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by whaaa
I can see it all now.....

A bunch of middle aged paunchy, balding men dressed in camo with their .38s and 30-30s marching up to their local court house chanting something like "were mad as hell and were not gonna take it anymore"
as the cops take your pictures, enter it into their data base and call your boss. "Sorry Carl, we're gonna have to let you go"

Actually we live in an corpratacracy not an oligarchy. If you want to actually change anything attack the entities that pull the political strings.

and who might that be???


you have no idea who you are dealing with and the actual power they possess. Think of David Koresh scenarios all over the place.

Do you actually think that citizen militias aren't infiltrated by "three letter groups" and most of the members would rat out the others when the going got really rough.

I think even talking about open rebellion is opening up a very messy can of worms.

I think for every "survivalist, militia" type, there is a counterpart that worships authority and would like nothing better than to blow malcontents away.





[edit on 25-1-2009 by whaaa]


Spoken like a truly good little re-educated citizen, who will love big brother the rest of his days. Don't worry, though, there are a lot of "you" out there.

I've done my time fighting other folks wars, thinking they were my own. After seeing what folks have done with the freedoms that the blood of better men have bought for them, I'm frankly disgusted, and have sworn off that sort of thing. There are worse things than dying, and I think that living long enough to see that you've thrown your life away uselessly is one of them. Watching people beg the government to take more of their freedoms that were hard purchased is a sad thing indeed.

I do believe a war here, whether civil or revolutionary, is inevitable, and very near. I won't be taking sides in it, unless I am forced to. That happens frequently in these little dustups. It's usually the side that first gives an individual reason to fight against them that gains another enemy. Government cracking down on citizens that just want to be left alone in peace gain a negative voting block in the ballot of the bullet. Likewise for the insurgents that trample on the citizenry. That sort of thing happens in these dustups frequently too, from both sides. The "I'll win your hearts and minds, or burn your damn village down" mentality is not the exclusive provenance of the "elite". Humans can be very dangerous beasts when finally backed into a corner.

For those who think TPTB will simply steamroll the opposition because of greater technology, greater numbers, or whatever "greater" you think they have, I can introduce you to people in Nicaragua, Afghanistan, and what used to be Czechoslovakia that would beg to differ. They all started out as underdogs, with pretty long odds, and went on to kick some major governmental ass, using the opposition's own weaponry against them. Don't presume to tell me "that can't happen HERE!"until you've been "THERE". I promise you will gain a different perspective.

I'm used up now, so I'll sit this one out. Don't however, make the mistake of thinking I'm so used up that it would be safe to steamroll and trample on me and mine. It can be done, but it will be at a great cost.

nenothtu out



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 01:50 PM
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reply to post by traderjack
 


traderjack...I ask for an example of people glorifying or fantasizing revolution and you give me a thread about aliens and U.F.O. stuff as an example...what space ship did you get kicked off of? Most of the people on there aren't posters in this particular thread. Its like you are mixing apples and oranges as they say..and in this case you are coming up with a bunch of fruits


Seriously, you seem like a reasonable enough guy but your example seems poor to me. Anyone that would glorify or fantasize about a revolution is pathetic indeed. But god bless the patriots that are willing to give up their own lives to ensure freedom.



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 02:33 PM
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Peace, equality, and prosperity to all..



i would imagine all people that love life would be on that side as well...

We win!



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 02:35 PM
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reply to post by PhoenixDemon
 


Ease down there PhoenixDemon. traderjack is right. Ive been on these boards a long time, and people do glorify war a lot. Im not saying we all do, and neither is he. There are however several people who are blessidly naive about war. They have not been through real hard times, or had to face loosing someone dear no matter how hard the fight. People who shout "bring it on" typically do not know what it is like to have your life or the life of someone you love, in the hands of a pissed off person with a gun. The thought of war sounds like a great adventure to some. Its not their fault, and I dont think less of them for it either. They have lived a life that many would love to live.

I think that most of the people I have personally heard talk of this are people who have been there or know what it is like. They have a better knowledge of what a person's breaking point is. Having knowledge of that myself, I think there are a ton of people who are teetering on that breaking point now, and a very uncomfortable amount of people are only a few months away.



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by nenothtu

Originally posted by whaaa
I can see it all now.....

A bunch of middle aged paunchy, balding men dressed in camo with their .38s and 30-30s marching up to their local court house chanting something like "were mad as hell and were not gonna take it anymore"
as the cops take your pictures, enter it into their data base and call your boss. "Sorry Carl, we're gonna have to let you go"

Actually we live in an corpratacracy not an oligarchy. If you want to actually change anything attack the entities that pull the political strings.

and who might that be???


you have no idea who you are dealing with and the actual power they possess. Think of David Koresh scenarios all over the place.

Do you actually think that citizen militias aren't infiltrated by "three letter groups" and most of the members would rat out the others when the going got really rough.

I think even talking about open rebellion is opening up a very messy can of worms.

I think for every "survivalist, militia" type, there is a counterpart that worships authority and would like nothing better than to blow malcontents away.





[edit on 25-1-2009 by whaaa]


Spoken like a truly good little re-educated citizen, who will love big brother the rest of his days. Don't worry, though, there are a lot of "you" out there.


I don't know how you got that I'm re-educated and love big brother from my post.

Is it my pragmatism that disturbes you? All I see here is a bunch of cyber warriors that know absolutly nothing about the inner workings of domestic terrorist investigations.



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 02:57 PM
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reply to post by whaaa
 



I think nenothtu's point is that it seems like you are saying that there are no able bodied people on this board or perhaps in our society.

And I don't follow your point about the inner workings of a domestic terror investigation? I actually do know a little about how it works so where are you going with that?



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by PhoenixDemon
reply to post by whaaa
 



I think nenothtu's point is that it seems like you are saying that there are no able bodied people on this board or perhaps in our society.


I can't help what you or nenothtu think I'm saying. All I know is; I'm able bodied, armed and loaded for bear and hope like hell that all these macho, gunslingers don't go off half cocked and get themselves and their families killed.

Many times....Descretion is the better part of valor.



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 03:23 PM
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reply to post by whaaa
 



In the interest of finding common ground...I agree, discretion is the better part of valor.



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 06:44 PM
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reply to post by littlebunny
 
"Sadly everyone of you within this thread lacks that courage, lacks that conviction and more importantly, you people are flat ass lazy. Picking up a gun and running around trying to kill people is easy, to stand up and fight for what you believe in without using violence is hard, and that explains almost all the posts I have read within this thread, it is nothing but easily written BS nonsense."

Thanks for the insults, that adds so much to the conversation.

As I posted in my other post the ppl from the Ohio Unorganized
militia went before congress and laid it all out for them.

One of the female congress critters tried to trap them with a question
so they could arrest them right there on the spot.

During the bail out we did as you ask and contacted our congress
critters and we were HUGELY against the bailout.

They passed it anyways.

So when it is no longer a representative government all you have
is a plutocracy.

I do not intend to fight, and I openly admit my cowardice.

I plan to hide, and hide VERY well.

You can try your peaceful methods with the parasites in DC, but
I do not think you will fare any better than JFK did.

2nd point on your insults, if your just trolling, job well done, but if you
think insulting ppl is going to get them to come around to your way
of thinking you have a lot to learn amigo.



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 07:25 PM
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reply to post by whaaa
 


There will be no Malthusian catastrophe. Current models say that human population will level off and start to decline around 2050. Malthus thought that his little apocalypse was close at hand, yet here we all are. Because new farming techniques he couldn't imagine were invented. That's the problem with his scenario. It doesn't take into account future technology and progress. It assumes population will grow and productivity will decrease. Just not true. Birth control pills and condoms alone were enough to save us from this ever happening.



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 07:58 PM
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thread

This was the link I intended to use. I don't know how I screwed that one up?

Nevertheless PD, you need only make a cursory search of this site to find evidence of members advocating and indulging in the fantasy of 'revolution' and
'civil war'.

That being said, I am in no way saying that revolution is always unjustified. So, save the Jeffersonian indignation for the real fight.



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 08:33 PM
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reply to post by traderjack
 


traderjack, I will concede...there are some idiots who participate in this forum. But there is a greater number of good people. And I think some of the bravado you hear from some in here is simply misguided spirit. A good leader can direct that energy into something constructive.



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 08:35 PM
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As for the prospect of civil war, I think long before that would happen, the government would make enough concessions and enough people happy that it would quell it. As for taking back the government? That is really revolution, not civil war. The only way I see that happening is through a slow and long process. Aka: we need a third political party (and the current system is designed to prevent that, such as the 'electoral college' etc). Bring back the 'Common Sense' party, because that is what we lack in the US. They could overhaul the judicial system and create the position of 'Judge of Sh*t Happens.' Cases would be thrown out in record time and number. Someone comes in because the burned themselves with a cup of coffee from a fast food restaurant- the Judge's quick verdict, 'Sh*t Happens. Next?'



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 09:44 PM
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This bird you cannot change, Obama.

I stand with freedom.

The NWO can kiss my ass.



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 10:47 PM
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A "civil war" requires that sides be taken and leadership granted. In order to do so, clear lines must be drawn that distinguishes one side from the other. We saw it with states seceding in the 19th century. The Confederate States of America came into being with their own government and President Jefferson Davis.

We see civil wars in the Middle East where lines are drawn between Sunni and Shia. We saw it between Protestant and Catholics, Serbs and Croats. There is no clear distinction in the U.S. like this to create a civil war along racial or religious lines, not even between black and white unless there was genocide involved.

What the U.S. could face would be anarchy which boils down to every man for himself. Gangs or bands of people preying or surviving with local leaders and the only way that would happen is if the governments (federal, state and local) were overthrown or rendered useless. It could happen due to a nuclear war, major earth change, alien invasion perhaps. But contemplating some form of "us vs. them" in some clearly drawn political spectrum is pure rubbish and is speculative fear of the unknown.

I believe in being prepared but we would see a civil war in the U.S. coming over several years, not months. I don't see Ft. Sumter firing on the U.S. Navy anytime in the near future.



posted on Jan, 25 2009 @ 11:02 PM
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hhhaaaaaahaa aha aaaaaahhhaahahaaaaaa

oh my. A civil war? You mean mass purging, make no mistake, if the civilian population decided to go to all out war with the PTB, it would be nothing that the PTB haven't already laid plans for. And any "civil war clashes" would simply be used to divert attention from something much bigger elsewhere.

You must understand, TPTB have been planning and preparing for this eventuality for a verrrrry long time. And we don't live in the age of bow and arrows no mo, we have active denial systems and microwave beam weapons, lasers, tectonic manipulation, and a whole other freakishly fiendish array of weapons.

And if it came down to it, you would fight them the way the terrorists fight us, from the bushes with a detonator, attack and retreat.



For instance, lets imagine new york city is under total "rebel" control, it is a stronghold of sorts. The PTB know this, and wish to eliminate a huge number of them while keeping some or most of the infrastructure intact, They detonate one or two nuclear weapons off the cost underwater and cause an enormous tsunami.



[edit on 25-1-2009 by Retikx]



posted on Jan, 26 2009 @ 12:40 AM
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reply to post by whaaa
 


I apologize profusely for not making myself clear, and for apparently offending you.

What I was trying to get across is that you, in common with a bunch of other folks, have apparently bought the government line about resistance being futile. I say apparently, because that APPEARED to be the tenor of your post. I was simply saying that this sort of thing has not been my experience.

"A bunch of middle aged paunchy, balding men dressed in camo with their .38s and 30-30s marching up to their local court house chanting something like 'were mad as hell and were not gonna take it anymore'
as the cops take your pictures, enter it into their data base and call your boss. 'Sorry Carl, we're gonna have to let you go'".

I daresay that those gentlemen to which you refer may know a thing or two more than you give them credit for. Could be that a few of them have "been to see the elephant", as it were and are not seized by the overpowering awe of TPTB that seems to come out in your post, and it's just possible that some of them have had a bit of experience at shooting towards targets that try to shoot back. Furthermore, it's highly unlikely that such action would come about while such men still have something to lose, i.e. a "job" from which "Carl" is susceptible for termination. When that day comes, I highly reccomend that the police you refer to have something to hand a bit more potent than a camera, and even at that some of them will not go home that night.

"Actually we live in an corpratacracy not an oligarchy. If you want to actually change anything attack the entities that pull the political strings.

and who might that be???"

Can't agree with you more here. My dear old dad always told me that when things go south, follow the money. That's who threw the problem out to begin with.

"you have no idea who you are dealing with and the actual power they possess. Think of David Koresh scenarios all over the place."

This is the "overawed at power" part I referred to. I humbly beg to differ, I AM aware of who they'll be dealing with, and "the power they possess". And I tell you right now, those "powerful" people are in for a very rude awakening should they be overawed at their own power. Exactly how many "David Koresh scenarios all over the place" do you think they could manage before they became overextended and it got out of hand?

I saw an ancient mujahideen man shoot a Russian Mi-8 HIP helicopter right out of the sky with an equally ancient british .303 Lee-Enfield. Granted, it wasn't a ".38" or a ".30-30", but neither was it a high-tech whiz-bang supercharged rocket gizmo either.

I know a man, right now, who, in company with 3 unarmed friends "befriended" a police officer in Bosnia - patted him right on the back, and "befriended" him right into an alley from which they emerged with his weapons, and he emerged with a toe tag. Come to think of it, they were sort of balding and paunchy. And piece by piece, they armed themselves. You probably know the rest of the story.

In another part of the Balkans, I know of a case, - second hand, mind you, so take it for what it's worth, - where 20 locals armed with shotguns, some of which were home-made, took over a supply depot garrisoned nominally with 80 hardened combat vets. Perhaps they weren't quite as hardened as they thought.

I reckon all I'm saying is that while being "armed to the teeth" is good in such situations, knowing what to do with it (and how to do it) is infinitely better. You can get armed to the teeth any old time when things start to get sloppy. There's usually lots of that stuff laying around just waiting for someone to pick it up.

nenothtu out



posted on Jan, 26 2009 @ 01:14 AM
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reply to post by whaaa
 


"I think even talking about open rebellion is opening up a very messy can of worms."

Surely you are aware, with all that rampant pragmatism, that "love" and "fear" are but two sides of the same coin? Hence my misapprehesion that you love Big Brother. I stand corrected, and apologize all over myself.

nenothtu out




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