In the event of Civil War......

Originally posted by whaaa
The military will do whatever their CO tells them to do. In times of strife and hunger, military men want to eat as well as anyone and they will toe the line to feed themselves and their families.

I think you underestimate the mindset of the military. Of course there are the kids who sign up strictly for the college money or bonus, but the vast majority serve for duty to country under the constitution. High desertion rates would cripple the military like you wouldn't believe. Besides, if the country is falling apart I would want to be with my family for better or worse.

To answer the OP's question...I would be on the side of the constitution. This country has fallen into disrepair, and I don't think there is anything that can be done. Sometimes it's better to just let your house burn down, collect the insurance, and rebuild.

As far as it being the left vs. the right...who do you think has all the weapons? Hope, change and happy thoughts don't win wars...people with guns do.

While all the normal chipping away at the citizen's rights and the financial crises could certainly lead to a civil war, I think the fastest path would be an Obama assassination perpetrated by white person with any US government or white conservative group ties. Step 1- Widespread black population riots-Step 2 mounting body counts of white population- Step 3- Rising body counts of black population perpetrated by police & national guard trying to restore order in addition to retaliation of white population. Step 4 Martial Law-Step 5-Armed resistance of already tense population of citizens of all races against government. Step 6- Escalation of black/white killings with population separating into color based battle groups . Step 7 Whites confronted by Military force. Step 8- Military defections based along lines of color Step 8 Anarchy........

[edit on 23-1-2009 by mizzu]

well if there is a civil war do you think we could agree that the left and right of AMERICA
would be much happier if each had its own country?

I believe that the PTB control the world through a massive pool of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

In effect this gives most control to people who are not elected by the US people.

These people hold so much capital/power that the government has become their play thing almost exclusively.

Because we are all controlled by money and its pursuits, we are controlled by the holders of the wealth.

This is my leftist view though...

I am to understand that many think that the people who hold the capital are not the culprits, but rather the government itself. This is my impression of the rights views at least.

I also think that the right believes the government should have little role in the well being of its citizens.

Unfortunately I do not think our country can ever be free if the influence of profits dictates what is right/wrong - fair or beneficial.

for example

It benefits a company to dump their waste in a nearby river because it is cheap and more profitable... This cuts the bottom line and creates more productivity, jobs and money.

However it does not benefit the citizens who have their water polluted by this action.

It ends up costing the citizens in money and well being due to disease.

Provided the government stays out of it... The company benefits finically and the citizen PAYS, in effect has 2 eat the big one with a fork.

The costs saved by the company are passed on to the locals.

I see this same relationship in many things and it sickens me.

So If a civil war was to occur I would stand on the side that was for the citizens and not the LLC's, CORPS and the like.

Unfortunately this would pin me against the ideology of a completely free market and thus the traditional conservative.

I would hope to see a balanced system that could accommodate business but not let it make and break any rule that it wanted 2.

I believe government is the great balancer,
without it the peoples voices are not potent enough to influence anything.

FOR EXAMPLE

I would like to see you try to go out and try to get a company to stop belching out BENZENE on yer farm killing your livestock and slowly poisoning yer family ...

I would like to see you remedy the problem, if all the companies in the US decided not to pay employees on time whenever it suited them...

However, because there are so many people who believe "whats good for business is good for them", well they should have a country of their own where they can get bent over all the time if they like.

No thanks to that for me - give us CA ORG and WASH and you can have the rest IMHO






[edit on 23-1-2009 by The Bald Champion]

Originally posted by mizzu
While all the normal chipping away at the citizen's rights and the financial crises could certainly lead to a civil war, I think the fastest path would be an Obama assassination perpetrated by white person with any US government or white conservative group ties. Step 1- Widespread black population riots-Step 2 mounting body counts of white population- Step 3- Rising body counts of black population perpetrated by police & national guard trying to restore order in addition to retaliation of white population. Step 4 Martial Law-Step 5-Armed resistance of already tense population of citizens of all races against government. Step 6- Escalation of black/white killings with population separating into color based battle groups . Step 7 Whites confronted by Military force. Step 8- Military defections based along lines of color Step 8 Anarchy........

[edit on 23-1-2009 by mizzu]

If that's not totally ignorant and fear based , I don't know what is.

What logic or precedent is this even based on? Anyway , Obama is the new "puppet" ...he just so happens to be melanin enhanced. He's in office for a reason... so that when the "change" comes people in the hood won't object the way they would if a melanin deficient president started to take their rights away. These rights will be taken away under guise of "safety / security" etc.

ok... let me get back on topic. I , like many others have previously stated... I'm a "constitutionalist" and whichever side is preserving liberty and opposing tyranny... I'm there. I'm a prior service Marine and there are many other service members Active , reserve & retired that feel the same way I do. My hot button would be the 2nd ammendment... I hate to sound cliche' but I can't state it any better than Moses did when he parted the red sea , rasied his black rifle above his head and shouted "FROM MY COLD , DEAD HANDS!!!"

reply to post by whaaa


Only problem is, the average American is armed with MUCH better than .22's and deer rifles. Another issue is that the Military can barely handle Iraq which is comparable to oh say...California. The US, is a HUGE nation.

Truth is, NO GOVERNMENT on the face of the earth can survive without the consent of its people.

IN a recent interview, Steve Quayle says that his inside sources say that in the event of a mass uprising in a city, "they" (meaning the military) are just going to neutron bomb the entire city.

reply to post by sir_chancealot


en.wikipedia.org...

Conception of the neutron bomb is generally credited to Samuel Cohen of the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory, who developed the concept in 1958. Although initially opposed by President John F. Kennedy, its testing was authorized and carried out in 1963 at an underground Nevada test facility.[2] Development was subsequently postponed by President Jimmy Carter in 1978 following protests against his administration's plans to deploy neutron warheads in Europe. President Ronald Reagan restarted production in 1981.


Are you serious?

The Army could not defend the country against the United States Militia's. 200 million people with guns? Try it.

This thread reminds me alot of the thread from awhile back about the guy who decapitated and ate another man on a Greyhound bus in Canada. If I recall, that thread was also full of blowhards stating that they would be Johnny Badass in that situation and place themselves directly in harm's way to save a complete stranger.

Allow me to be realistic here. If a civil war was ever to break out in the USA the only side I'd be on is my own, and by "my own" I don't just mean myself, but I also mean my own people, my family, my friends, people who share my ideals. My Sit-X plan doesn't involve joining any military or militia group in field combat in any way. It involves disappearing and waiting. I'd wait until I was either forced to defend myself and my position or until the fight was over and one group or the other has claimed victory. After that, it would completely depend on which group had claimed said victory as to whether or not I'd repatriate myself and my family back into society or get moving in a different direction, away from the "new America."

If I was a single man without a wife and children, my answer here would likely be different. As it stands, however, any nation that came out the backside of another civil war probably wouldn't be a nation I'd want my children growing up in anyway, so I don't see much of a reason to fight for it one way or the other.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


Your reality isn't mine.. realistically speaking, you cannot judge a man based on your own actions. Would I have stepped in to save that man on that bus? Yes. Would I fight to take my country back from the hands of the corrupt so that my fellow man can live the way they want with the constitution unabused? Absolutely, and I would have no qualms about dying for it. No, I am not married nor do I have children, so I can see your position on the matter friend, but do not assume that everyone is this way.

I don't have children yet, but when I do.. I want them to know that their father set the ground for them to pave their path of life in any direction they want, and not in the direction that others do.

reply to post by LeTan


If you recall the thread I was refering to, it became a giant pissing contest with people talking about all the cute little Chuck Norris manuevers and Vulcan nerve holds they would have used on the attacker in question. I wasn't so much questioning the man that said he'd have risked his own life to protect others as I was questioning the ones who made themselves out to be John Rambo and laid out these scenarios in which they'd have dropped the guy without taking a scratch to themselves.

I learned something fairly early in high school which I have carried with me for the past 15 or 16 years. When all hell breaks loose and you find yourself in a fight, especially against multiple people, the guys who stand there telling you how they're going to kick your butt and how huge a hurting they're going to put on you aren't the ones you need to worry about. Every fight I've been in, those were the guys who were easy prey. The dude you worry about is the guy who keeps his mouth shut while taking a defensive stance. That guy, right there, is the man who knows he can whoop you.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


Ah I understand, I see your situation now. Personally yes, I agree with you, the sharpest sword is always kept in the sheath so to say.

I stopped at a truck stop recently. I was tired and too far from home to make it without a little rest. So, I went in and had a cup of Joe and sat down in the dining area.

So, I hear several truckers engaged in conversation about this very subject. There were black and white men and a couple of women. I joined the conversation and many of these folks say they hear the same sentiments from coast to coast. "War is coming" And it has nothing to do with race of our President.

Personally, I pray we avoid this catastrophe, but I am beginning to believe it may be unavoidable. Too many pissed off middle class Americans with no jobs realizing they are getting a raw deal.

As the anger builds the best laid plans of these 'secret groups' won't do jack squat when their own warriors turn on them.

I think if there is a civil war that most people will be trying to save there families rather then fighting together. I know I personally would be trying to get my family to a safer area. I just have a bad feeling though that no matter who wins, whomever gets in charge afterwards will still be the same old government. And once again we will be sheep following our leader. I believe that who ever gets in charge should make some changes and make sure that we dont depend anymore on all these other countries imports. But then you have to realize if we start a war here, we may be asking the enemy to walk in and take over. That would not be good. If we are so busy fighting each other we may not be able to stop the real enemy from taking over.

EyesWideShut, don't be harsh on mizzu. Ive heard that particular theory from a lot of people actually. Its a very common fear. Thats not to say those who are afraid of that are racists, but that they are afraid of racists. As for the rest of your post, Im right there with you. Well said. "Out of my cold dead hands" indeed.


burdman0ott6, I think that whole "me and mine", disappear and wait plan is what a lot of people are planning. I really don't it is realistic though. Granted my plans consist of meeting family members in a specific woodsy location, it would not last long. Too many people are going to head for the hills so to speak. That will make the hills too highly populated for the loner life.

traderjack, you are very right. Too many middle class Americans are getting a raw deal. Its been my experience that those hard working middle class Americans dont sit around and take much for long.

pmbhuntress, I disagree. I think people would come together and help each other. I also think that people would be too protective of their freedoms to blindly follow anyone.

I would support something less destructive and more productive than a Civil War, which would be a TAX REVOLT. The line of thinking is this: Senators and Representatives are not upholding the law of the constitution, nor are they representing the will of the people. Your tax money is being hoarded by the banks, and politicians have given them your tax money. And, why deposit your Salary in the bank if they already have your Tax money? First step in a Tax Revolt, take your money out of the banks. They will use your money to fight you.

A main perpetrator of the tax theft and wealth transfer from taxpayers to banks, criminal Senator Dodd knows he did wrong and is worried about what he did:

www.nytimes.com...

So When Will Banks Give Loans?

By JOE NOCERA
Published: October 24, 2008

"...Of all the banking executives in that room with Mr. Paulson a few weeks ago, none needed the government’s money less than Mr. Dimon. A company spokesman told me, “We accepted the money for the good of the entire financial system.” He added that JP Morgan would use the money “to do good for customers and shareholders. We are disciplined to try to make loans that people can repay.”

Nobody is saying it should make loans that people can’t repay. What I am saying is that Mr. Dimon took the $25 billion on the condition that his institution would start making loans. There are plenty of small and medium-size businesses that are choking because they have no access to capital — and are perfectly capable of repaying the money. How about a loan program for them, Mr. Dimon? Late Thursday afternoon, I caught up with Senator Dodd, and asked him what he was going to do if the loan situation didn’t improve. “All I can tell you is that we are going to have the bankers up here, probably in another couple of weeks and we are going to have a very blunt conversation,” he replied.
He continued: “If it turns out that they are hoarding, you’ll have a revolution on your hands. People will be so livid and furious that their tax money is going to line their pockets instead of doing the right thing. There will be hell to pay.”"

Why does he say that? It's because they've already projected that. It's the job of the government to project strategic actions and reactions. And the government has shared those projections with the politicians.

Also, top civilian trend forecasters are predicting a collapse of industries, followed by raising property taxes, and a revolution. Gerald Celente, a well respected and proven accurate Trend Forecaster, forecasts a collapse, property tax hike, and revolution is coming.

www.trendsresearch.com...

The Collapse of '09
The “Panic of ‘08” will be followed by “The Collapse of ‘09.” In 2008, when the world’s largest financial firms and equity markets crumbled, Wall Street’s woes preoccupied the media. In 2009, the focus will broaden to include a range of calamities that will leave no sector unscathed.....

Little People Squeeze
To keep local, state and federal governments running, and to finance stimulus packages and bailout programs, politicians will put the squeeze on the already squeezed. The biggest squeeze: property taxes. Historically, empires crash when taxes are raised beyond the capacity to pay.....

The Revolution
It’s unprecedented. There is nothing like it in the history of the United States. No week goes by without the Government buying into or buying up another failing “too big to fail” using taxpayer money. In the process, a super-race of corporate giants is being created that will be declared “too big to tumble.” It is a matter of historical fact: When people are homeless, helpless, desperate, jobless and hungry, sooner or later they will rebel. And it won’t be any different in America.....

Simple answer. I protect myself. Joining sides is pointless. Its an easy way to end up dead.

I think long before any civil war happened, there would probably be a secession of states from the union. I believe this could come about first through intense pressure from local constituents on their local governments. This would later transgress into severe pressure from the States onto the Federal Government. And finally with no recourse and no more options, the country could divide, similar to what happened with the Soviet Union.

Recently Montana showed how serious it was about the DC gun ban, threatening secession if the SC did not rule the bans unconstitutional. *phew* Just made it over that one, and some would still argue that point.

The scene would then be potentially very dangerous depending on how the US military reacted, and how things like nuclear weapons were allocated or even stolen. I mean all kinds of crazy stuff could happen. But many military I think would want to protect their families first, and would probably opt out through transfers and what not or even AWOL to go home and protect.

And there's another strange tangent to this that may catch everyone blindsided.

Hillary Clinton. Lookout. She is currently 4th in the line of succession. as Secretary of State.

Given some of the notorious legacies of the Clinton name, yes I would be surprised, but still. Omama, Biden, Pelosi and Byrd stand between her and that which she covets so deep down. It is a frightening thought, and that could be a reason for civil war if something like that went down. But I would not put it beyond them to try. False flag, covert, just at the right time. It could be done all at once leaving her holding the reigns. I wonder if she'd force Monika to be her secretary.

[edit on Sat Jan 24th 2009 by TrueAmerican]

I will stand on the side of the founding ideals of the founders, the bill of rights and constitution, as they have evolved over time and become more perfect, that is as an outline of God given rights that apply to ALL people, and a government that is instituted among men for the protection of those rights! After all, a crime is something that hurts someone else... to hell with this victimless crime philosophy, and to hell with the national security obsessed forms of governing. We are the government people! We give them the power, and they have trained us to believe it is the other way around! I am on the side of my neighbors, my countrymen who believe we should have the right to exercise free will, and whom realize that without Law there is no Liberty! I support Law, not law. I love my countrymen and my heart is heavy with sorrow for those who have been mislead and brought low into servitude. We have, in this crisis, a golden opportunity. An opportunity to bring to fruition the idea and practice of the true ideal that is America, that not even the founders themselves could achieve or implement! It's as simple as this, are you on the side of love and liberty, or fear and control? I myself fear only becoming an unjust and wicked man, and no man may control me, even unto death I am free. For as long as one man on this earth is free in his heart, and has a mind which knows liberty, we are moving toward victory. Sorry if that kinda rambles on

....And there's another strange tangent to this that may catch everyone blindsided.

Hillary Clinton. Lookout. She is currently 4th in the line of succession as Secretary of State.

Given some of the notorious legacies of the Clinton name, yes I would be surprised, but still. Omama, Biden, Pelosi...

OMG, PELOSI?!? That would bypass tax revolt and go straight to Civil War! She is the most evil and criminal Senator!

reply to post by PrepareForTheWorst


Our military is very much behind the people, and very fed up. I assure you all that there are MANY MANY people who are looking out for us that we don't ever hear about or know about. They work in secret just like our enemy does. There are societies in the intelligence agencies, it is rumored, that lay down their lives fighting these powers and principalities, in unknown numbers in places near and far. For as many people there are like us, how many are there in the world, in all the services, that will be quietly sabotaging the plans of evil? Do not make the mistake of underestimating, let alone despising mankind! Our nature is not evil, that has been indoctrinated by a progressive mystery of corrupting forces that are outside of most of our senses.