Ghetto Britain

Originally posted by drwizardphd

This is exactly how I feel about immigration!

The whole idea of "illegal immigrants" is moronic. If you can move here, work, support your family, and LEARN TO SPEAK ENGLISH, you are a legal immigrant as far as I'm concerned.

For all the foreign immigrants who want to hold onto their culture, that's fine. Just learn to speak the language and get used to our customs.

If I wanted to move to France, I would brush up on my French and start eating crepes. I wouldn't go there and wave guns around and eat cheeseburgers and talk about football (American), because if I wanted to do that stuff I would just stay in the US, like I do. I don't care if France has a better economy and a better healthcare system, I am proud of being an American. If Muslim immigrants want to move to Britain, they'd better try to fit in, or they are basically asking for the culture rift they are creating. It won't be too long before the native Brits have had enough and start asking them to kindly leave.

Those are how things should be but it is never the case people in the US always go to other countries and complain about stuff, i have seen people complain about stuff not be wheelchair accessible, don't speak English, the laws, customs, other religions, the foods, the way they talk, the way they dress etc. In know lots of people that think the US is the way everybody should be and that we are # 1 and that others should be accustomed to our customs.

As for speaking English, most of Texas, New Mexico, California, Arizona were already speaking Spanish before they became states, during the time they were states and now during the new immigrant boom. I doubt that they made people whom lived in those places right after they became states learn English.

Rather we like it or not Texas, New Mexico, California, Arizona will always be bilingual, look at any border of area countries and people on both sides speak the others language and that has always been the case.


By the way there is no official language in the US at the federal level and some states have English as the offical language, some have English and Spanish and others have no official language.

During the 1700's people spoke Dutch, English, French, Spanish and German throughout the 13 colonies people didn't have a problem with it then

I'm wondering why we aren't just a bilingual country period about 75 % of the countries around the global are bilingual why can't we be.

People in Puerto Rico, American Samoa, Northern Mariana Islands, Guam all have languages other than English or have two official languages with one being English everybody in those places don't speak English and they are free to come to the US anytime they want.





As for the problems with England they kind of set there selves up; when they were colonizing everything and up to the 60's they allowed basically anyone from the colonies to come to England without a regard to people in the colonies may not be Christian, may have different cultures etc. that clash with the native population of the UK most of the immigrants to the UK are from the former colonies have it be in the Middle East, the Caribbean, the Pacific or Africa

[edit on 23-1-2009 by jatsc]

[edit on 23-1-2009 by jatsc]

If they don't want to integrate, it is beause,

1. They can't.

2. They can, so don't want to.

Group 1 need support, jobs, access to the language in many cases, and a feeling of oneness with the rest of us.

Group 2 can stop going to other people's countries and pulling in cousins and can fuuck off back to the backward holes they came from.

Group 3 fit into neither, they think they aren't British until they go back home and maybe just need a holiday in Cambodia..... ie see how backwards their old communities were.

Group 4 are whites who talk this up.

Group 5 are Catholics who want to undermine the law with Sharia. Few of us are practising protestant but most want that structure.

reply to post by Wildbob77


What does it matter , didn't the UK just help nick Iraq ?
We get their oil and Kebab on Friday night, they get Christmas and coca cola.

Seems like a good deal to me lol

I think that this post goes hand in hand with

This Post

As the world gets more and more crowded, there are going to be migrations of people.

We need to figure out how to handle these migration.

Originally posted by jatsc
People in Puerto Rico, American Samoa, Northern Mariana Islands, Guam all have languages other than English or have two official languages with one being English everybody in those places don't speak English and they are free to come to the US anytime they want.

I'm sure you realize those are all territorial possessions of the US.

I can't think of many successful countries with more than one common language and culture. Switzerland ?

I think all the old historical examples ring hollow compared to the unprecedented wave of illegal immigration from Mexico and Central America in the last several decades. Considering the close geographic proximity and the immense social welfare state today, it's a different phenomenon than the old "melting pot" immigration and assimilation patterns. I think it goes without question big business and other interest groups have encouraged and exploited the weak border enforcement to undermine the legal labor force.

For all of those who don't know already:
Daily Star is a tabloid paper.

I would take anything written on it with a grain of salt ... and vinegar for that matter

Originally posted by Schaden

Originally posted by jatsc
People in Puerto Rico, American Samoa, Northern Mariana Islands, Guam all have languages other than English or have two official languages with one being English everybody in those places don't speak English and they are free to come to the US anytime they want.

I'm sure you realize those are all territorial possessions of the US.

I can't think of many successful countries with more than one common language and culture. Switzerland ?

I think all the old historical examples ring hollow compared to the unprecedented wave of illegal immigration from Mexico and Central America in the last several decades. Considering the close geographic proximity and the immense social welfare state today, it's a different phenomenon than the old "melting pot" immigration and assimilation patterns. I think it goes without question big business and other interest groups have encouraged and exploited the weak border enforcement to undermine the legal labor force.

I understand about Puerto Rico, American Samoa etc by the way there are not territories; they people that come from those lands still may not know any English so that part is the same; people talk about people coming here and learning English, what about people whom are US citizens that dont speak English.


Many of the countries in North & South America have currupt governments, for many reasons and has been that way for the past hundred years. Anytime that someone got in charge that was trying to make a change that person gets assassinated with that and many other problems most of the countries have been run by gangs therefor leaving no way out besides to leave the country.


There are lots of countries that have either many cultures or many languages. Many nations in Asia and Africa have numerous languages.

Almost every country has places with different cultures

the US the culture in the Northeast is different from the Southwest from the Deep South,

England, Wales and Scotland are different

People in Siberia have completely different cultures than those in Moscow and St. Pettersburg.

Greenland differs from Denmark

Guadeloupe, Martinique, French Guiana & Reunion have nothing in common with the European part of France besides language.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by jatsc]

MUSLIMS want to create their own communities and remain segregated from British society. A shocking 44% think they should be free to develop along separate lines.

Personally, I don't have a problem with this. Why does everybody have to integrate? We share absolutely nothing in common. If they want to live in their own communities, then that's fine by me. As long as they practice their religion in a good way and they work and contribute, then I don't see a problem.

What does integrating into British society mean anyway? Do we expect the Muslims to go down the pub for a pint of Lager and a packet of scratchings? Or maybe, they can go to Skegness or Butlins for a for a nice relaxing holiday with the Chavs. Maybe they can go to the football and then participate in a bit of fighting and binge drinking. Maybe they need to read the Sun or the Star newspaper.

Maybe they need to start eating fish and chips, burgers, hotdogs and grey peas. Come on, integrate into what?

Originally posted by StevenDye
You move to Britain...you live in Britain.

You learn the language, you learn the laws, you learn the customs...and you accept all of them. This group of countries does not suddenly change to suit you, you change to fit in with the particular country you moved to. I would expect no more for myself.


You most certainly do not try and make your own country continue here. If that is what you want; go home. I wont go to your country, and set up a town entirely for people from mine... so don't do the same here. Live with us or go...

Keep your religion, and express it publicly, yes fine. But also accept the religions already present.

[edit on 23-1-2009 by StevenDye]

Well said, and as others have said learn the language of what ever country it is you choose to move to. And if you can't learn the language get a job that doesn't require you to speak to the public. How frustrating is it to try and order something as simple as a cup of coffee and you have to explain yourself over and over.

I work in a hospital and it is incredibly irritating and time wasting to try to explain medical information to someone who is struggling to understand.

I think it is important to keep ones culture and pass it on to the next generations but as said, respect the cultures of the country you have moved to.

reply to post by StevenDye

You move to Britain...you live in Britain. You learn the language, you learn the laws, you learn the customs...and you accept all of them. This group of countries does not suddenly change to suit you, you change to fit in with the particular country you moved to. I would expect no more for myself. You most certainly do not try and make your own country continue here. If that is what you want; go home. I wont go to your country, and set up a town entirely for people from mine... so don't do the same here. Live with us or go... Keep your religion, and express it publicly, yes fine. But also accept the religions already present.

Exactly..

But the worst thing then is. They can't speak English, so all the communities have to translate all the govt paperwork into the selected languages of said immigrants so they can sign on because the can't get a job because of the language difficulties.

This puts a strain on the local communities schools and other infrastructure because needless money is going into the translation services of courts, schools, job centres and so on.

I have worked in many countries, and have always had to learn the languages of them (Greeks' a bitch). You're forced to learn the languages elsewhere as they don't have the services the UK Political Correct brigade provide...

Rant over....

reply to post by paul76


How about they don't create their own "communities", where it is dangerous for none-muslims to even walk down the damn street at night in case you get robbed or assaulted?

Then there are some Muslims who cry "racism" about pretty much every thing to try and get some cash paid for apparent "damages" caused to them "psycologicly".

Then there are a few Muslims who even complain about Christmas because it offends them...

reply to post by UKWO1Phot


Love these massive racist generalisations - does anyone really know what the average Muslim immigrant thinks here? I very much doubt it going by the replies, all inspired by the vile red top propaganda machine.

I've had 2 living with me for well over a year and known one of them for about ohhh, 8 years or so before that and all these statistics, figures and surveys are just pure lies. I also live in a very multicultural city (Bristol) and yet there are no problems with race/religion/appearance/whatever on the whole - the only difficulties are with the lager louts fighting and drugs, something any large city has and is not exclusive to one race or religion.

In fact we all sit and wonder why there is so much grief elsewhere, up north in particular - could it be the reception immigrants receive upon arrival perhaps? A warm welcome makes for good neighbours, treat as you wish to be treated, etc.

Islamophobia is pathetic and needs to be addressed seriously and honestly.


[edit on 23-1-2009 by Goathief]

reply to post by Goathief


I don't see most of the comments as racist, just frustration in the difficulties failure to acclimate to ones new country brings on the current (native) residents. Most people find like people to associate with, and those people tend to be of the same or similar culture, beliefs etc. But there are certain concessions to make, like learning the language.

reply to post by Blogstalker


That's just the point, I can't name or know of any immigrant who doesn't speak English locally - this includes asking around in the communities, sure there might be a very small number but the accusation/implication most don't is simply preposterous.

It's all borne through ignorance and propaganda... and deep-seated racism/bigotry that a lot just aren't honest about - or at least aren't in public.

reply to post by Goathief


That is great for you. It just seems I should be able to order a simple cup of coffee at the local drive up and not have to repeat myself over and over. One day the employee at the drive up had to write the price on a napkin in order for me to understand. As I said, if you work with the public it is useful to know the language.

The person answering the phone on hospital floors should understand what I am trying to tell them about a patient. There are many jobs in the hospital that do not require a strong use of the language.

edit to add, I don't know the percentage of immigrants that speak English, my "concern" is only the ones that work in public jobs that require communicating with customers/coworkers. What a person speaks at home or out and about is not my concern. In fact I think it is great to teach the language to their children and carry on any traditions of culture.



[edit on 1/23/2009 by Blogstalker]

Here in America, citizens are not given the free ride like their illegal neighbors. I could tell you of the horrors of how citizens are tossed aside while the illegals are taking all the jobs, given welfare and free medical etc. While we are jobless and need help, we are forced to take money from our retirement funds to survive and pay our medical. We are sick to death of watching millions of hispanics driving their gas guzzling mini vans, owning their own homes or getting subsidized housing, while our vehicals desperately need repairs and we cannot afford to own our own homes. It's like the citizens are getting lost in the cracks and no one gives a damn. How dare they come here and get freebies from our tax dollars when we can barely afford to get by ourselves. Something has to change and fast.

We are losing billions of dollars. Hospitals are closing etc. etc. Does anyone care ? Yeah if you're illegal they do. This is just wrong. All the while they wave their flags above our own, yell and scream in the streets and demand more and more. Well guess what? We need jobs and food and homes and clothing and medical too. Do the illegals have compassion for us? No they don't. They steal or social security numbers, their gangs are killing innocent people, buildings have graffiti all over them and we don't feel safe anymore.

reply to post by Goathief

Love these massive racist generalisations - does anyone really know what the average Muslim immigrant thinks here? I very much doubt it going by the replies, all inspired by the vile red top propaganda machine.

To be straight here.. No I don't have any Muslim friends but I do have Asian ones.. I grew up with them.
Even though, when I go to one particular friends house his parents won't speak to me because I'm white, his mother refuses to speak English EVER. She expects the children to do the talking for her when she NEEDS anything.

I remember an interesting twist on the willingness to learn English with an hispanic friend of mine. He spoke English very well and his children spoke English and Spanish. The children, of course, only spoke English at school and at home the father insisted they spoke English as much as possible so the mother would be forced to learn it. She was refusing to learn English amd her husband wanted her to learn English.

We have ghetto suburbs here in Oz too.

If you look at the places where these people come from how can you expect anything else?
They come from "ghettos" to begin with.

Originally posted by jatsc
I understand about Puerto Rico, American Samoa etc by the way there are not territories

Sorry, they are territorial possessions. Basically all those places you listed are part of the Unites States. But notice they're all small isolated places that retained their own cultural identity but have US military protection and rule of law. It's not the same thing as the humongous islands of "Mexican citizens living in the US", which have developed inside the SW US the last 2 decades.

Originally posted by jatscMany of the countries in North & South America have currupt governments, for many reasons and has been that way for the past hundred years. Anytime that someone got in charge that was trying to make a change that person gets assassinated with that and many other problems most of the countries have been run by gangs therefor leaving no way out besides to leave the country.

Right, I don't blame the illegal immigrants at all really. In fact, like I said, they are encouraged to break the law by unscrupulous forces. They're paid next to nothing, with no benefits, by a private or corporate entity with no concern other than their own bottom line. Without any regard for the true cost to society, an overburdening of education/social services of the host country.

On top of that, many wages are paid under the table, so the employers don't pay workers comp ins tax, or social security set asides. And the workers pay little besides retail sales tax and yet reap very generous benefits. Walk into any Hospital Emergency Room in CA/AZ/NM/TX and look who's there to see a doctor. Ask the hospitals how many billions they lose each year ?

Look at the food stamp/general assistance rolls. An illegal immigrant cannot legally collect these entitlements for themselves, but they can for any citizen children. I have a relative who works for the govt approving these cases, and they tell me constantly about couples that come into the office for benefits..i.e the woman is 22 years old and already has 6 children. Her husband works some menial labor job but doesn't report it, they are both illegal, but maybe 3 of their children were born here, so are entitled to medical, food stamps and cash assistance.

Now look, I'm not saying this family is bad or not good enough to live here, but the simple math of it is, they wouldn't be able to live in the US and continue having so many children without taxpayer assistance we cannot afford. Coming here used to be risky. Now there is no chance of failure. Get across that border, and start reproducing, and you will have a steady stream of income to live on, probably on average $500 a month in food stamps and cash benefits per child. Quite simply, we are being covertly forced by the elites to subsidize a merger of the common US/Mexican populations. Fix the root problems that are causing them to want to abandon Mexico, C. America etc.

Originally posted by jatscThere are lots of countries that have either many cultures or many languages. Many nations in Asia and Africa have numerous languages.

Almost every country has places with different cultures

the US the culture in the Northeast is different from the Southwest from the Deep South,

I said successful nations, there really aren't many besides a handful. Switzerland, and I also just thought of Canada. History has shown a country of forcibly made of multiple languages and cultures cannot co-exist peacefully. Look at the Baltics, look at China. Did you know China is actually composed of multiple separate and distinc ethnic, cultural, and language groups ? It takes an iron fist to keep it together. If Communism fell, China as a solid nation would fail. The reason the US immigration policy has worked in the past, is because of the "melting pot", which is not working anymore in CA/AZ/NM/TX.

I'll give you credit for trying, but most of the places you listed have co-existed and shared common history for centuries. I know England, Scotland, and Wales are technically separate countries, but that's really not germane to this matter. They've been together politically and socially for a long time . Also New England maybe different from the Deep South, but there is still a common language and culture. Maybe I'm not explaining myself well, or maybe you've never seen it for yourself ? I think my first description was apt. There are enormous "Islands of Mexican Citizens" moving to the US, they're not assimilating because their home country is right next door. I consider it an expansion of Mexico. Look at the decline in the average real wage salary of the US the last 30 years. Ceser Chavez was against illegal immigration.



[edit on 24-1-2009 by Schaden]