California risks "insolvency" amid budget woes: government

Originally posted by David9176
We need to bulk up our borders and coasts...this country is going to need protection now more than ever....we are vulnerable right now..the country is weakened....wouldn't now be a great time for an attack on the US?

Yes, it would be a great time, especially for America, herself. The resulting retalliatory war would immediately boost our economy (if the war was managed properly ala WWII) and we'd come out the back end of it in far better financial shape and with a re-strengthened global presence.

I fear only one thing from this California mess... I have no desire to see the rest of the country saturated with fleeing ex-Californians who will almost certainly start abandoning the state like rats from a sinking ship. We already have virtually all 49 other states (57 other states if you're the President elect...) facing employment woes, we certainly don't need millions of new people infiltrating the rest of teh country searching for jobs.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


There will be nowhere to go anyway. They are the first domino. And when she falls the rest will follow in rapid succession.

reply to post by projectvxn


Considering even during the most prosperous of times nationwide, California has lived off credit and dealt with quite large deficits, I don't view their troubles as being a great indicator of nationwide insolvency just yet. Yeah, I grant you, things are bad all over, but California strikes me as being very much like a retailer that is ultimately forced to declare bankruptcy... it is the simplest mechanics of attrition you can find. If they can't stand fully on their own when things are good, how can they expect to do so when times are tough?

reply to post by burdman30ott6


43 of 50 states are in the hole just like California. Nevada, where I live, is in the same position, only we don't have state income taxes.

Here's a post that will put this in perspective:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Click on the external images...It should help put things in context and why I think California is first in a series of dominoes.

Originally posted by projectvxn
reply to post by burdman30ott6

 

43 of 50 states are in the hole just like California. Nevada, where I live, is in the same position, only we don't have state income taxes.

Here's a post that will put this in perspective:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Click on the external images...It should help put things in context and why I think California is first in a series of dominoes.

I looked at the external images. I myself am moving back to Texas in the next couple of months. I currently live in an area that depends on tourism and trade which both have pretty much dried up in the late half of 2008. I believe that if worst gets unimaginable bad that I would be much better off in Dallas. There is so much land and so many wild hogs to live off of in Texas that I have no worries if everything comes crashing down. I guess time will tell if the US will crash all the way back to the 1800s.

[edit on 15/1/09 by Pfeil]

reply to post by Pfeil



Alot would say that only time would tell. I say the facts tell, and they are, in fact, telling us to brace for impact. Dallas may not be a good place considering the influx of immigrants and drug war cartels that will flood the country once everything collapses.

Illegal immigrants do not take that big a piece of the pie. They are a huge drain but it is not constructive to focus on illegals alone.

reply to post by projectvxn


I think it is constructive to consider this from the LA Times:


1. 40% of all workers in L. A. County ( L. A. County has 10.2 million people)are working for cash and not paying taxes. This is because they are predominantly illegal immigrants working without a green card.
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal aliens.
4. Over 2/3 of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal , whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
5. Nearly 35% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally
6 . Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in garages.
7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9. 21 radio stations in L. A. are Spanish speaking.
10. In L. A. County 5.1 million people speak English, 3.9 million speak Spanish.
(There are 10.2 million people in L. A. County . )

(All 10 of the above are from the Los Angeles Times)

If 40% of your workers are not contributing anything to the tax base that would add to the deficit! If only 2% of the illegals pick our vegetables but about a third of them are on welfare. I think that would add to the deficit!

I wonder if Arnold and the California legislature think anything should be done about THIS besides raise taxes and borrow more money??

No wonder people are fleeing California! They can't afford to live there!

reply to post by bodrul


Because America is still considered a super power due to its military power, economically we are not longer in that rank.

reply to post by plumranch



Thank you for those numbers. But as I said, this is not the largest of California expenditures that are causing this problem. If California's government could cut spending on so much of their needless welfare state then the illegal problem would be more manageable. But you numbers there do provide alot more perspective. And for that I thank you.

Full disclosure. I'm a LEGAL immigrant to the US. Here under political asylum.

Take a look at this little diddy.

www.google.com...

Scroll down and click on the US link.
From Google Trends... Very eye popping. Toward the end it shows a small spike of inflation for the US, I'm surprised no one has looked at this.

[edit on 15-1-2009 by projectvxn]

[edit on 15-1-2009 by projectvxn]

[edit on 15-1-2009 by projectvxn]

Are there any Californians out there that have a closer view of what is going on? It seems that the MSM is being very quiet as to what this sort of news is suggesting. Why is this not bigger news?

The biggest problem in Calif is the democrats in charge.

They always spend every cent of the budget in the good years and never save anything for the bad years that everyone in Calif knows will come.

They have run big business out of Calif and over regulate and tax those businesses that stay in Calif.

They are in hock to the state unions and have never said no to them.

They cater to the illegals in the state to get votes from the Hispanic population.

They have turned 1000s of sq miles of the state into wilderness areas that have no redeeming value and no scenic value just so no one can use the land and this takes more land off the tax rolls. and limits recreational use by many that would bring in money to the state. few people hike in wilderness areas and that makes the land a drag on the state.

they do just about everything to stop tax money from new companies from coming into the state.
and every thing they can do to drive companies out of the state.

In most cases when the companies leave the taxpayers leave with them.

Some of the differences between Calif and a state like Texas.

In Texas the state hires low income people with tractors to mow the grass on the freeways, this provides work for them and saves the state money.

In Calif they use union state highway workers that only work about 6 hours a day and get high union wages.

In Texas they have the castle doctrine and a lot of people with CCWs this cuts the crime rate in Texas because many criminal fear getting shot more then going to jail and the prisons are not country clubs for the inmates.

In Calif the criminal are not afraid of getting shot by homeowners or business owners because the homeowners and business owners will likely go to jail for shooting a criminal. and even the prisons in Calif are country clubs and training centers for criminals

In Texas the state prisons have farms that the prisoners work and they supply a large amount of food for the prison system they also have prison industries that saves the state money making there prison system cheaper to operate.

In Calif many on the prisons are warehouses where they do not use the prisoners for constructive work. and the union prison guards in Calif are some of the best paid prison guards in the US.

In many areas of Texas you can set up a small home based business without even getting a business licences. many disabled in Texas can run a small business so that the state will not have to support them.

In Calif you can not run much of a business from your home and a business licence cost a lot of money. this means few disabled people can start and run a small business to support themselves. so the disabled live on taxpayer money.

I have lived in both states. and only because in have to take care of a elderly father do i live in Calif.

I am disabled and live on a VA pension in Calif

My sister is disabled in Texas and has a small home business. and does not live off taxpayer money.

When i no longer have to take care of my father i am moving back to Texas
and opening a business in a state that wants people to open businesses

[edit on 15-1-2009 by ANNED]

reply to post by ANNED



This is one place you and I see eye to eye. Like I said a few posts back They have major liberal spending habits with little else to supplement their spending. This is ridiculous.

I read an article a few months ago about the same dire situation for New York. Economists are expecting NY to become what it was in the early 70's. As major financial institutions suffer, people loose their jobs, money leaves that state, people return to family and smaller business in rural towns.

The larger cities will suffer in this mess, especially ones focused on retail and finance. Then major capitals of manufacture.
Just look at what's happening in China. They are all moving back out into the rural country because their jobs in the city have collapsed.

A major city is not the place to be in a financial crisis.

The safest places to ride out the storm are villages and towns, the sleepy places that seem to tick along nicely on their farming, local commerce, micro economy...
Even there you'll see stores closing due to sales plummeting, but not on the scale you'll see in major cities. Most modern retailers don't plan financially for the future beyond being able to apply for loans. Businesses in smaller towns are often family run, own the property, do it for a living rather than a profit. They plan for rainy days.

I would expect there to be money being plowed into states and business sectors all over the US, but as pointed out, this isn't viable.

This is slowing the inevitable, making it less of a shock, waiting period. The economy is collapsing, but it's being controlled so as not to happen all at once and cause massive chaos.

You just need to look at the car manufacturers. There are millions of vehicles worldwide, waiting to be sold. The major car manufacturers have been given billions of $ to help them out, but to help them do what? Who is buying cars right now?
Who will be buying the cars they are continuing to make with your tax money?

The only reason this was done was to delay the injection of 3 million Americans into unemployment, dependence on the government, all at once, which is what the car companies were threatening.
They will all sink because their products are temporarily not required.
For a company to be viable it has to have a customer.

I live in Northern California and things are pretty bad. Here in my town we have had to ask several civil servents to take an early retirement and called off the hiring of new people we really need at the city level. BUT California isnt the only state getting this right now it is really all over the place. Its just that they are putting California in the spotlight because they have their puppet at the helm.
If you pay close attention to the markets you can tell its all over the US. There are actually a few states worse off than we are as far as services go.They are using California as the spotlight holder because of all of those BIG companies here etc.
His call on the "STATE OF EMERGENCY" is a green light to everyone else. What happens when all of the sudden you have to few cops and not enough people to run the cities and counties? WHO gets called in? NOW you get it......

P.S the WHO where palced here for the elections after the threats of civil unrest....THEY haven't left.

reply to post by xoxo stacie


Believe me I know. Even Reno, NV is crawling with mercs. I watched a re-run of the state of the state address by governor Gibbons of NV last night and he laid out the budget. It isn't looking very good, though he painted a pretty picture. Northern Nevada is cutting services from libraries to schools to police and firefighters. There just isn't another way. State government employees will be taking a 6% pay cut and some will be getting laid off. Several layoffs have already occurred at the local level in Sparks, Reno, Fernley, Fallon, and Carson city totaling 300 employees. Some of these employees are on the streets now.



[edit on 16-1-2009 by projectvxn]

Originally posted by ANNED

Are there any Californians out there that have a closer view of what is going on? It seems that the MSM is being very quiet as to what this sort of news is suggesting. Why is this not bigger news?

In Calif many on the prisons are warehouses where they do not use the prisoners for constructive work. and the union prison guards in Calif are some of the best paid prison guards in the US.

This is NOT TRUE. The PIA Prison Industry Authority is a publicly traded stock, and is basically products manufactured by prisoners of the CDC. There are 2 MILLION prisoners in California, about 1 million are non-violent drug offenders.

I live in California, and many have mentioned illegals as a big part or most of the problem here. You simply DO NOT understand the economics of the state if you think so. Where else would all the greedy SOB's, from large corporations, to construction contractors, get the impossibly cheap labor to keep the fat cats RICH and this CA economy going? As the ship sinks AMERICANS continue to point the frickin finger anywhere else but at themselves for what is happening. CA is not bankrupt from the illegals; if it weren't for cheap labor this state would have seen the truth long ago. AND I DON'T EVEN CARE TO POINT IT OUT TO MOST OF THE IGNORANCE I SEE POSTED HERE...figure it out for yourselves. HINT: the entire state is built on the backs of those still wet with water from the Rio Grande, and for next to nothing. LAZINESS & APATHY is the reason for all of it in the end...when it happens, we should all admit, we let it happen. NO ONE DID ANYTHING TO US!!!!


[edit on 18-1-2009 by odd1out]

Well, I was right. After California asked the Fed to shore up their debt issues with a massive bailout, the ripple effect will permeate throughout the US. This will cause the bankruptcy and bailout of many US states, i will say 5 before the US federal government declares bankruptcy, defaults, or hyperinflates, and it is possible that all three may happen one right after the other.

Mark my words. I've done the research, I have seen this coming since September of 08, I've been screaming about it, but no one ever listens until it's right in their faces, and the reason I was screaming about it is because I know what is going to happen next, it's part of the pattern.

Originally posted by plumranch

I think it is constructive to consider this from the LA Times:


If 40% of your workers are not contributing anything to the tax base that would add to the deficit! If only 2% of the illegals pick our vegetables but about a third of them are on welfare. I think that would add to the deficit!


No wonder people are fleeing California! They can't afford to live there!

Constructive? Not hardly.


More like Xenophobic disinformation, boardering on the bigoted, if not outright racist, proposition that all "our" troubles can be neatly foisted upon the backs of those "other people".


I guess hard times bring out the Nationalist/Socialist in even the best of us.


Truth is, it is the Employers who pay their employees in cash, "under the table" who are breaking the law in the most aggregious fashion, at least in terms of impact to the State's fiscal health.

Granted, many of the undocumented do not make enough in wages to even have a personal income tax filing requirement with the State; even if they were to file a tax return, they would have no taxes due and be eligible for a full refund. Not filing a return actually saves the State the cost of processing an un-needed bunch of paper.

Historically speaking, however, undocumented workers are amoung the most likely to report their earnings for personal income tax purposes. They do so to qualify for many of the same benefits granted to legal citizens as taxpayers. Fair is fair.


More than 40% of California's operating budget is derived from Personal Income Tax revenues. Sales and Use taxes account for the next largest, single revenue source. Bank and Corporation tax revenue comes in a paltry third.


The world-wide economic reccession (the "unspoken" depression) has hit California extremely hard. Californians commanded some of the highest salaries in the nation. With job losses mounting, wages plumeted, and therefore revenues from personal income taxes nose-dived.

That's where your major deficit trigger gets pulled, not some skewed projection based on just one of more than fifty counties!

Los Angeles is NOT California!


Legislators have long resisted raising sales and use taxes, in part, because these taxes directly impact the average citizen, who is already "feeling the pinch" of a failing economy. It is a realization that the wealthy may chose to "vote with their feet" and buy outside the State, but the poor and middle classes are left to pick up the slack, with less in their sacks.


As for those corporations that have left California, good riddence!


Corporate tax income is a relatively small portion of California's tax base. And those companies that want to do business in California, with its 37 million potential customers, will still be required to pay their $800 or 8.84% (1.5% for sub-chapter "S" corporations) Corporate taxes.

But by leaving the State, they are contributing to the ever-increasing unemployment problem, a problem they will eventually not be able to out-run no matter where they relocate.


The fewer people working, the fewer people buying. The fewer people buying, the fewer businesses surviving.



Is California the first of the "dominoes" to fall? Sadly, it's quite possible.

But it is not the immigrants, legal or otherwise, who will be cause of the fall.

It is the fault of those who sought to gain the most while sharing the least. The owners and CEO's of the companies, large and small, who sought to cut every corner they could, even if it meant breaking the law, to increase their personal wealth,


and to Hell with everyone else.

What's wrong with California? Many things.

They tax business too much and then Californians take their business outside of the state. I took many of my ESL schools outside of the country, but that is because I went to where I would have a greater customer base.

They charge wealthy people more and more taxes to support things we do not want to support. To the OP, how many Californians do you know that have bailed to Reno? I know a few dozen.

Illegals come in and put a huge burden on the infrastructure. I love immigrants, as my wife is one. I have a problem with illegals. If my wife gets any kind of government means tested assistance, such as food stamps, welfare, or medi-cal, I will have to pay that back. The sponsor of a legal immigrant is responsible for their financial security. However, there is no sponsor for an illegal immigrant and they get a free ride.

The United States has too many creditors and is incapable of paying off our debt.

The continual printing of worthless money will only create hyperinflation. We are also about to raise interest rates. That's a deadly combination.

These guys are not stupid. They know exactly what they are doing and the negative consequences, that will result.