Originally posted by magicmushroom
but why these people have a double standard.

Do you have some concrete examples of these "double standards"; quoted from posts here at ATS? Or, are you assuming a double standard? I'm getting the impression that your "double standard" is coming only from what you perceive an American should think, and what some of them say. Do you have some comments you can point us to that actually point at a double standard?

Originally posted by bigvig316
Speaking for those who want to keep their guns and feel that the "Radical" "Fundamentalist" "Terrorist" Arab shouldn't be allowed to have their guns. The rest of them can have what ever gun they want to protect life home and property. But if they are living in a terrorist camp, planning to take out Americans, yeah, they shouldn't have guns.
[edit on 1/14/2009 by bigvig316]

Rather hypocritical to be honest.

America dropped two atomic bombs on Japan after they agreed to surrender, (under different terms) so should America not be allowed to keep it's weapons, because it was widely supported by the population (Correct me if I'm wrong there) That sounds rather like a terrorist attack to me.

Mr Penny, I don't want to single out any particular member because that would not be right. but lets say Its an ex service man who believes in fighting for what is right But then stating the opposite when it applies to some one else. Or a member who expounds the values of freedom and democracy the right to self defense but again when it applies to others its the opposite view.

Its like a vegetarian calling others for being vegetarian. I don't know if its because some Americans have an uniformed view of the World or more likely a misinformed view of the World. I often think of those with Avatars of men armed to the teeth who talk about fighting for freedom and democracy and the right to self defense but who would then go on to say the Palestinians don't have any right to land, home security or safety. That's what I don't understand. If you are a doctor committed to saving life do you then change you mind when its the life of a coloured person.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
What I am trying to find out is that by reading comments from certain Americans here on ATS being proud of their own identity, country and rights who condem others for doing the same.

Who do we condem? Once again we do not need to agree with them. Iran can do what they like, but why do I need to agree with their choices. You are mixing apples and oranges here.

It is not a double standard for I defend what I believe in and a Iranian defends what he believes in and there is a good chance we both disagree with each other.

For example if an American states that they dont agree with the imigration of say Mexicans into the US and feels that people should stand up to this why do they then say some thing different when it relates to others. Such as the indigenous peoples of the ME being shunted around and persecuted.

You forgot a word there..."Illegal" imigration.

Palestinians are being screwed by everyone, so of course we all would like to see that situation resolved into something good for them. Launching 1000s of home/Russian made rockets at the Jews might not be their best course of action though.

Its not about Brits or anyone else becuse in the main when it comes to talking about guns, rights etc. it is usally American members who are the most voiciferous. There is nothing wrong in that and we cannot use the Brits as such as a model as we don't have a constitutaion and we don't have the right to bear ams.

What you got against guns, or what does guns got to do with your post?

But its more of a case of that is a person feels very strongly about such matters why do those views change when its about some one else. Thats what I'm trying to find out as normally people would identify wih the plight and struggle of others if they are patriotic themselves and have such strong feelings about freedom liberty and justice. It would be like a Frenchman saying those who stand up for themselves are wrong, that just does not happen does it because the French stand up for themselves and others.

France stands up for no one but themselves.

I'm not sure what views you suggest change when we look at other countries. Do you feel evey country in the Middle East strive for freedom, liberity and justice?

If one holds such strong and important values why do they change when applied to different people? Again I am ony referring to the comments I have read here on ATS which I know is not representative of the American people but then I was not asking that but why these people have a double standard.

Once again I'm not sure what values you are suggesting. How about Life liberty and happiness? I would love for the Palestinians have a chance for it too, but I do not think they will find it on an 8 mile strip of land. I would also love to see the Jews have their independent state as they pursue their life, liberty and happiness.

You can blame the UN, Brits, France, WWI, Jordan, Syria, Egypt, Iran, Israel and even the Palestinians themselves, all are to blame in this situation.



[edit on 14-1-2009 by Xtrozero]

The Palestinians have so little land because it is being taken from them for the past 6 decades so they have no peace. Israel wants more land and those who own it fight for the right to keep it so Israel will not have peace.

No the reality is, is that Americans are obsessed with guns and frequently talk of their right to defend themselves their freedom and liberty. Why do they then deny others those same rights. Its a simple question with a simple answer.

If Americans and others are entitled to their rights so is everyone else thats the simple answer. But there are those who say do as I say not as I do. The double standard.

Guns and missiles are not the same thing. If Hamas were randomly firing their 9mm handguns into the air across the border then it's most likely Israel would have never noticed.

Americans have their rights because they fought for them and won them. Hamas is also trying to fight for their "rights" and will either win or they won't. They should not complain of a bloody nose when they picked the fight. They should be happy with the bloody nose and be glad it wasn't worse.

So I don't see a double standard. I think I see regret and jealousy from some that let the government take their guns away, and did it without a fight.

"America was founded on a double standard. America was founded by slave owners who wanted to be free. So, they killed a bunch of White Englishmen so they could continue to own their Black Africans. Then they moved from there to kill all of the Red Indians and further west so they could take all the land from the Brown Mexicans. To use as a place to drop their Nuclear Bombs on Yellow Japanese people.
The motto of this country should be: "You give us a color and we'll wipe it out!"" - George Carlin.

Yes, Americans live by a double standard. I think that is a product of being as well-to-do as we are and not having to see the horrors of our own actions, or inactions...
We aren't the only ones guilty of it, though. Developed nations tend to be more hypocritical than underdeveloped ones. They have the luxury.
Doesn't make it right, but it isn't untrue.

[edit on 14-1-2009 by Jay-in-AR]

Originally posted by magicmushroom
The Palestinians have so little land because it is being taken from them for the past 6 decades so they have no peace. Israel wants more land and those who own it fight for the right to keep it so Israel will not have peace.

No the reality is, is that Americans are obsessed with guns and frequently talk of their right to defend themselves their freedom and liberty. Why do they then deny others those same rights. Its a simple question with a simple answer.

If Americans and others are entitled to their rights so is everyone else thats the simple answer. But there are those who say do as I say not as I do. The double standard.

You finally had a coherent though and then you lost me here.

Palestinian land to American gun rights and then back to rights.

BTW PALESTINE has been part of Transjordan, The hashemite Empire, The British Mandate, Iraq and the only thing you say is ISrael wants more land.

They gave back Gaza and the Palestinian Autority was furious at it happening so quickly.

Please stop hyperventalating.

Frankly I think you're all mad and the less talk of guns, hypocricy, standards, nationality and right and wrong the better.

Opinion is fine but not as fine as knowing when to keep it to yourself.

I love you all.

knuckle dragging classes of America




I try to be open-minded about other countries and different cultures and try to paint a different picture with the canvas that America currently sits on but this statement just tick set me off.

Which classes are you talking about that are the "knuckle dragging classes" of America? Your obviously talking about the middle to lower class family's which tells me that you are ignorant of anything America. I'm disapointed that you aim at all Americans when only a handful are blinded to the world.

Sorry that I can't travel abroad to different countries when we can barely pay our monthly house bill. I and many of my friends would love to have the opportunity to go on a Euro-trip but we niether have the time nor money to do so because we're in a little thing called a recession which I'm smack dab in the middle of. Maybe you heard of it?

I probably wouldn't even travel abroad if I did have the money and time because citizens in different countries are too quick to judge an American. They instantly think us as arrogant, ignorant, and selfous. Well, I got to tell you all something. That's totally absurd.

It's posts like these that make me lose hope in all parts of the world.

Originally posted by David9176
If people could just learn to accept the differences they have with others and their beliefs...we would all be so much better off.

Yup!

Mr Mushroom....although I respect some of your threads, this isn't one of them. Not because of the subject but because of the tone in your OP.

I hereby revoke you from my friends list....you are welcome back when you clean up your act a little and stop with all the threads that are purely started to create conflict.

Decorum achieves, deploring does not.

Originally posted by magicmushroom


No the reality is, is that Americans are obsessed with guns and frequently talk of their right to defend themselves their freedom and liberty. Why do they then deny others those same rights. Its a simple question with a simple answer.

I agree with your first sentence to a degree. We do insist on keeping our rights to keep our weapons because half of our country has been trying to take them away for decades.
We don't really think that giving up our rights is a smart thing to do.
The reason that you hear about it a lot is because it is a never ending issue here socially and politically.

As far as denying others their rights, I am not a proponent of Iraq, Afghanistan, or any support for Israel. I think we should leave other countries to their own devices. Then we could use the tens of trillions of American tax dollars that have been taken away from my country to aid/support/help/hinder/hurt/invade/influence/rebuild/subsidize/.... other countries and take care of our citizens.

I'd be perfectly happy to have no Americans anywhere else in the world and use our own assets to take care of ourselves. This way we wouldn't be interfering in anyone elses right to live the way they want and your world could be so much better for it.


It is only my opinion but I think that a great deal of the American population feels the same way.

I'm fed up with watching my hard work and efforts get taxed and that money be sent overseas so that I can then be called an arrogant ignorant knuckle dragging moron and selfish sorry scumbag.

I say shut off the tap.

Originally posted by magicmushroom
The Palestinians have so little land because it is being taken from them for the past 6 decades so they have no peace. Israel wants more land and those who own it fight for the right to keep it so Israel will not have peace.

So big chunks of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Iraq are not their land too? Is it so covenant that their land just happens to all fit within Israel? I don’t see them asking for other land that they could just as easily say is theirs. Hell, Egypt built a wall so the people of Gaza could not enter into Egypt. Israel is 30 miles at its widest and 100 miles long…hence very small compared to all the other Muslin countries around them, but there is no room in those countries either. Egypt had control over Gaza for a few decades and didn’t help them in the lease, and prevented any of them from ever going into Egypt to start a new home.

As I said there are many players in this problem.

No the reality is, is that Americans are obsessed with guns and frequently talk of their right to defend themselves their freedom and liberty. Why do they then deny others those same rights. Its a simple question with a simple answer.

I guess they are fighting...and dying. Who are we "Denying" their rights to defend?

Guns are a part of America....so

I have noticed your general disdain for Americans in past threads MM, but this is a bit ridiculous. Things being what they are, I wouldn't assume to make broad accusations about a people I only know from what I've seen on tv, or the internet, or what-have-you. I don't go spouting off about europeans, even though I have a right to, simply because I know jack & squat about euros. But you don't seem to have that problem youself....

As to your question, my 'fighting for my right' to keep and bear arms has nothing to do with politics or anything else, it is but an aspect of my belief system and lifestyle. I beleive that you should be able to do what you feel as long as your not harming anyone else in the process. Me owning a gun harms no one. "Oh but you might shoot someone." Yes, and you might sponateously combust, but it's highly unlikely. You can't fault a person for what might happen. It is less about owning a gun, and more about not liking someone telling me what I can and can't do in my private life. You give politicians an inch, and they take your head off. Not just in America, but everywhere. Who are you or anyone else for that matter to tell me how to live my life? Simplicity. You should keep your generalizations to yourself really, they do nothing but make you look like you don't know what your talking about. There are ignorant Americans, but ignorance is neither racial nor national, it's universal, there are ignorant people everywhere. So post on about you opinions of Americans, because in the end, that's all they are, your opinions.

Chrono

Originally posted by wayno
I think that MM's main point is that you, Americans, are always loudly defending yourselves against what your government might do to you,

Where do you get a paintbrush that big? Down at the "Mammoth Paintbrushes "R" Us store?

You might want to back up on that assumption and maybe re-word it for a more realistic tone.....I'd suggest; some Americans and, are sometimes loudly defending. See, that makes your point look more reasoned and much easier to defend.

Wayno, thank you you have hit the nail right on the head. Its only a pity that Aericans cannot see that. When they do then they will understand.

Blue if it was you neighbours attacking you what would you do? America like many countries has gone through a civil war where fellow Americans killed each other. I would refer you to Wayno's last comment.