The Bible, Man's book or God's Word?

reply to post by moniker


unless it's carved in stone, 2000 years from now, harry potter will be missing in action.

Originally posted by Melissa101
Wow! That is all I can say. You guys are so far off it isn't even worth the words to describe. God asks us in the Bible to have faith. He does not have to prove anything to you, he will however humble you and he will humble you soon if you do not believe in him and obey his law. If you seek answers you must first admit that you are wrong and humble yourself to God and ask for wisdom. Anyone who is well educated in the world and ignorant of God is the same as a flashlight without batteries. If you want proof you must humble yourself and study the word of God to find the truth. If you read the Bible and you see contradictions then you do not comprehend what you are reading. You will only be able to comprehend when you have been given the ability to comprehend. You have to start with a clean slate and throw out all preconceived notions of what you have been taught through the churches of today. It does not matter if your back ground is Catholic, Atheist or Church of Wal-Mart. Throw it all away, none of it is true. Most of what we are taught today in these denominational churches comes from Pagan beliefs and of course the Pagan belief is going to contradict the true word of God. Seek and you will find, ask and you will be answered. If you approach the subject with the attitude that you already know all the answers then you are defeating the purpose and you will end up chasing your tail like you are doing now. God is love, God is the universe, God created you and he created everything you see. Aw. I could go on forever but the point is God does not create hate, war ect. You are right in that people create these things but they do so through Lucifer by denying Gods law.

And let's not forget... he always needs money!

(For a reference to the above, look up George Carlin on Youtube and search for "Religion is bull#".)

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
No one has yet attempted to refute my argument, from what I can tell, most of the responses are in agreement with my point...

My belief is that the Universe IS God, this erases the Creationism versus Abiogenesis debate because if the Universe is God and life came about due to the Universe than God did create life... It makes sense on a lot of levels if you think about it...

But I, for one, am tired of ignorant people clinging to their dying religions, I say keep your belief in God but forget everything you've been told to believe about God so that your mind can be open to the real truth rather than closed by the blinders of religion...

We-ell.. I'm not sure if I'd agree fully with that.

I will always refute the concept that 'God' wrote the Bible, or more specifically, dictated it to humans who wrote the words down, as in the 10 commandments, first there was darkness and he created light and it was good and then adam and then eve from adam's rib, etc.

And I do believe (personally) that this whole 'God' concept is a giant misrepresentation of the eternal energy/Force that is life which we're all part of.

[slightly-off topic but trying to address the topic]
I suppose what I'm trying to get at is the "refutting" of an "organised" setup or conscious intelligence that spawned the Bible or made its intentions known to us [people] which was then written down. For me, the eternal energy/Force/life isn't "coherent" or "intelligent" in the human concept. It just "is" -- it exists always. And is neither happy nor sad nor angry nor judgemental of what we do in this mortal life.

Hmm, hard time wording this.

From the debate perspective, I'll refute your argument if it implies the 'God' force IS actually self-aware, conscious and has a mind that we'd consider a 'personality'.

However if insetad what you're suggesting is that because the 'God' force [i.e., the non-judging, non-conscious one] is in all of us as we're all part of the same thing, and because people wrote the Bible and we're all part of the God force, God worte it... ok. I'll argee to

The bible is written by men, parts are copied/mangled from earlier religions/cultures. If I were writing a book today and told everyone that God was telling me to write it I would be deemed quite insane.


See signature below

Originally posted by toochaos4u
The bible is written by men, parts are copied/mangled from earlier religions/cultures. If I were writing a book today and told everyone that God was telling me to write it I would be deemed quite insane.


See signature below

If you talk to God, you're religious. If God talks to you, you're psychotic!

Yes i do believe it would be hard to prove that God has inspired our thoughts. Because we cant share our experience now can we. The only way we can do that is to put it in words or in some other way. A inspiration given to us as a thought cant be proven. Even you know that.
And that will for ever by your strongest argument. Because we cant prove anything. But how can you deny what others have been inspired by. How can you ever know what others are experiencing. How can you say for a fact that it is just a lie. What gives you the grounds to say whats right or wrong in this mater!

reply to post by spy66


Well as for inspiration if you look hard at the actual words and beliefs there are many that are plagiarized from earlier texts from other cultures/beliefs with many ideas mangled. As far as motivation I would expect that to be religious power play to gain followers. Read the words they are set up to create fear and control populations. If you don't do this you are damned, if you don't do this you are damned. That's my personal view but, everyone if free to believe as they wish.


[edit on 18/1/2009 by toochaos4u]

reply to post by noonebutme


Thanks for your reply, I'm glad it was more on topic than a lot of recent posts here have been (it seems a side discussion on aliens or sumerian gods has begun to dominate the thread)

The idea of God as a "Force" isn't a new one and its an idea I've certainly entertained, I'd like to believe that this positive energy we call God actually has some form of consciousness. In fact my current best guess is that the Universe is God, one massive conscious being that became sentient and set out to create life (this way both abiogenesis, evolution, and Creationism are all essentially true)...

Thanks for the imput noonebutme

[edit on 18-1-2009 by Titen-Sxull]

The problem with the bible is the same problem with religion in general and that is the church. Theres nothing wrong with religion religion is about love and spirituality it's the church that perverted all that. Before there was the church if a man wanted to talk to god he did just that talked to god he didn't need the church as a go between, he had nice personal relationship with what ever he believed in. See religion is a very personal thing its about truth and my truth isint the same as yours or anyone elses. But man changed all that he took over religion and made it a business its the same problem with the bible man trying to cement himself on something he doesnt fully understand.

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


You're very welcome! I love a good debate -- where people can all have completely different opinions on a topic and try to debate their points, all while maintaining a civil attitude

I only wish more govts and political arenas would actually do this -- we'd have a better world, me thinks!

reply to post by toochaos4u



Well there is a difference in what you say. Getting a inspiration and writing them down is one thing, but how the text is interpreted and used by another is another thing.

How the texts are read and used is a human idea. As you know if you and i read the same Bible. I bet we would draw a different image and a different conclusion to the story it tells. But who is right you or me.

I bet the only thing that you and I would agree on, is that we have read the same book. But we would debate the message that the book gives.

And this tells us how difficult religion is. But i dont think it is that hard if you use a bit of science and logic. And try to imagine how everything could be created out of nothing. How was space created! And how was matter put inside it !

This is a hard thing to imagine. You will probably end up with something like a thought started everything. But who's thought is it!

Is this thought right or wrong. If it's wrong can you tell me why.

Can you tell me if space and matter has the same dimension. Or is matter something you will find inside space.








[edit on 27.06.08 by spy66]

Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by John Matrix

 

You're response did not refute my arguments in the OP. If the Bible is foolishness to those who are unsaved than how did anyone get saved at all? I myself was a Christian, I was "saved" and it was only after I actually put forth an effort to follow Christ that I became confused by the Bible and slowly began to wake up the fact that it was not perfect, not historically accurate, and certainly not the word of God...

Using scripture cannot work in this debate, because anyone can write a book and put the words "this is the word of God" in the book, it doesn't make it true, the book must be questioned and tested, and, as far as my tests so far, the Bible is failing with flying colors....

Many receive the call, few are chosen. All a Christian can do for an unbeliever is provide the salvation message. To do that, A Christian has to either READ it for themselves in the BIBLE, or Learn it from someone else who has STUDIED and READ the message of salvation from the BIBLE. I trust the Salvation message in Scripture, more than I trust word of mouth passed down for 2000 yrs. Word of mouth can change the story...as we should all well know and agree.

So, the fool is someone that hears the salvation message and ignores it. The predestined are those that hear it and accept the free gift of eternal life through Christ our Lord and Savior.

I hope this answers your concerns.


[edit on 19-1-2009 by John Matrix]

I believe the bible is and was inspired by God, written by people that God chose, so that instead of banging my head against the wall trying to figure out what happened 4,000 years ago I prefer to put my trust in God and feel fully confident in His ability to put the words straight.

After all, God created the entire universe and everything in it, so it would be a very easy thing for the Lord to move His spirit through some people so that they write the words He wanted them to write.

Now that that is out of the way we can move forward to what the bible actually says to clear all this confusion that was initiated by that dark side of mankind, otherwise known as the devil.

Jesus is not God, the bible declares He is not God and He declare He is not God, but the ignorant, unlearned and biblically illiterate choose to follow the wolves in sheep's clothing and they repeat those untrue statements in order that they aren't rejected by their worldly churches.

Jesus declared openly and plainly that He is the SON OF GOD, but the bible twisters always try to lie, trick and decieve partly to confuse people and turn them away from God.

You can rest assured that Jesus is the truth, spoke the truth and you can read His words knowing that they are God's words, because even though Jesus isn't God, the fact is that God manifested His spirit through Jesus.

Now there's a big difference between saying the truth about what is and was written and changing it around to fit your own self destructive purposes, because Jesus also said that WE TOO are God's children and He is our Father.

Pretty simple hugh! If we don't change the scriptures around and try to use them to justify slaughtering innocent women and children while stealing their oil and other resources we might be able to PAY A LITTLE MORE ATTENTION to what Jesus ACTUALLY SAID.

Jesus prayed to His Father, (which by the way is our Father) and Jesus was manifested as a man, just like us, however Jesus said GOD IS SPIRIT and He seeks those to worship in spirit and in truth.

So calling Jesus God is also calling Jesus a liar and that's not the best way to manifest God's love and truth, but then all the sheeply, church going christians I've seen lately don't give a darn about God, or Jesus words or what the bible really says, they're too self centered, prideful, greedy and their minds are filled with hatred and vengeance.

We're all human and all make mistakes as I have done and probably will continue to do so, and so according to God's laws we're all guilty and deserve death, but ONLY because of God's mercy and grace and kindness, ONLY because God loves us does he show us pity at times and let's us off easy. But don't even think that God doesn't love justice, as in Isaiah 61:8 He says "I the Lord love justice...

How in the world people can claim to be followers of Christ and believe in the truth in what He said on one side of their face, while justifying the barbaric slaughter of little children in Palestine.

My grandfather was a jewish orthodox rabbi that escaped the holocaust and my half brother is currently an orthodox rabbi, so the last thing I want to see is any more persecution of jews, but the things they are doing in that phony place they call Israel is anti-jewish, murdering all those poor little palestinians while stealing everything they have.

These events were written about a long time ago, and God foretold us all things, yes He prophesied the future, He told us about today so when I see all these devil worshiping murderers that call themselves christians I can't complain too much because God already told us about these things, but it still grieves me to see it all unfold right in front of my eyes.

I'm dying of end stage liver cirrhosis so I won't be here in the flesh much longer, but I hope for your sakes you chose the right way, I hope you choose God, and choose not to go along with the political correctness of murdering people in Jesus holy name.
Steve www.iwilltryit.com

yes, the bible is the work of man...... Prophets! The people who wrote the bible were prophets.. misguided. but still prophets. There is some code in it for a guide to humanity (Along with other holy Books). But we wont discover that for years And all those tossed out books had part of that code !!!!! ok, so find those books then we can prove it.

The New Testament is probably the most edited book around. The bishops and cardinals at the Council of Nicea threw out books they did not like and kept the ones they did like. Also, they had the make sure that Emperor Constantine liked what they did.

Constantine did NOT become a Christian until he was on his death bed. He only legalized Christianity to solidify his power base in the empire.

In the Old Testament there are too many "God(s)" to count. Some are benevolent, some are vengeful, some are downright cruel and murderous. It almost appears as if some outside force(s) were at work

Deffinitly, Man's Book. If It's already not obvious:

-The 12 Apostle's Gospels. (Apostles, were Men i pressume).
-As mentioned In your post, the Christian god can do evil/harm.

There are tons of more reasons, but it requires alooot of typing...
Also, do correct me If I am wrong. Jewish & all thoose lovely relgions were born before Christianity, yes?
Then 'Jesus' came to Earth, claimed to be the Messiah' and there you go a billion more relgions born, on some mans word.

There are a few errors in numbers, and descriptions but there are no contradications of fact. The alleged contradictions are misconceptions of verses.

For He (God) saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.

God can do whatever He wants to whomever He wants.

He needs not explain Himself to you or me.

Girls abort their babies by the millions every year. Is that loving???

He who is without sin cast the first stone.

Besides you'll have a chance to ask God...

I'd rather put my trust in God then in Obama

The priadamite theory souless men where here . Then Saten flooded the world , its was still raining when God got it. God had it under control in 7 Days Let me know if that dont answer the poster's Question ?

Thanks folks

"Then Saten flooded the world "

*****God is in Control of all events. Satan has no power and has to ask permission to act. He did not flood the world, God did to get rid of mankind that was corrupted by Nephilim DNA. The fallen Angels in Genesis 6 took on human bodies. They mated with daughters of man and created a hybrid human. They were giants and men of remown or genius intelligence. It was Satan's plan to corrupt mans DNA to stop the birth of the coming messiah. God knew Noah was a man of God and saved them, brought the flood and destroyed mankind, to start over.

They did return, to produce more Nephilim and are the Original Illuminati. They are the aliens that people want to believe comes from other "planets". This is not true. They are interdimensional and demonic.

the bible is mearly another aesthetic, just like the greek myths.

stories in the bible provide us with a fantastical explanation for phenomena we as humans are unable to comprehend like how/why we exist and why we have intellect




from the hidden_punk (user id still being processed, coming to a factory near you)