Survival w/ Family when TSHTF

yeah, children adds a different emotional hell!! I have prepared by purchasing shortwave radio, scanner (of course they use digital, but local police use analog system) and CB radio. cellphones will be useless and if power loss all the sheep will be going bonkers!!! LOL! listen learn and practice your possible scenarios. My biggest concern here in casa grande AZ is all the illegals getting desparate and doing a house jacking... ammo and gun in the house is a little comforting but a good knife or pepper spray is handy (and safer with kids around). being prepared and enjoying each day is key to your sanity!!! I am still attending college and plan on graduating in 2012...LOL!

i'll repost this from YT on the ZS forum for the benefit of the new Yorkers

1d.) Cross-Posting: You will not cross-post content from other discussion boards (unless you receive advance permission from The Above Network, LLC). You will not post-by-proxy the material of banned members or other individuals who are not members, but have written a response to content within a thread on these forums.

Mod Note: Terms & Conditions Of Use – Please Review This Link.


[edit on Mon Jan 12 2009 by Jbird]

Why wouldn't you plan for an emergency? I don't understand why the one poster would think this was a bad idea?

There are many potentials for emergency situations. For example, I live in a fairly safe place. However, tornadoes touched down pretty close to my neighbourhood numerous times last summer. Why would I NOT choose to be aware of that and ignore what would happen if they did touch down in my neighbourhood? It has happened before in the other larger city in this province. I know a family in which several family members died (including a child) from their cottage being picked up by a tornado.

What purpose would their be in my ignoring that? How far do you think I should take that attitude? Should I ignore the tornadoes touching down nearby and let my children continue to play in the yard? Or should I merely not have any water and food in the basement? How little do you think I should care about the potential emergency?

[edit on 2009/1/12 by Aeons]

To the OP... I can sympathize. I have a young child that I would need to care for if the SHTF and a wife, although extremely intelligent and dedicated to our child's well-being, probabaly won't have much to contribute in the ways of survival. To her credit though, where she used to think I was one of "Those crazy conspiracy people" has been subjected to her own personal awakening regarding the condition of society and the world as a whole.

To adress your questions... First I would still urge you to bug out of NYC if possible. This is a judgement call that will need to be made based upon your circumstances. If the SHTF is gradual, like the blackout or the escalating financial crises - definitely bug out the first chance you have. The city will become full of deperate people doing desperate things in order to survive. Best to not be around.

If the catastrophe is instant; nuclear, biological, chemical etc... You will need to bug in and stay in until you know it is safe. You should have a stockpile of food, water, medical supplies and clothing, not to mention some things to keep your children occupied. Radios, flashlights, batteries, weapons etc... all good things to have around. I realize that handguns are controlled in NYC, but a shotgun shouldn't be a problem - and by the way, it's worthless if you don't have ammo.

Practice with your children: Being quiet on command for long periods of time, sitting still in silence, taking cover on command, basic triage and first aid etc... make a game of it and use it as an opportunity to educate. My 3 year old is slowly becoming a master at these skills. As they grow up you can slowly add more information and skills to this repertoire. The idea is to make it as simple and age-appropriate as possible. You do not want to scare your children or make them paranoid, but you do want them prepared.

On a final note, I would seriously consider moving out NOW. I know, I know... you said you couldn't. But the reality is that you can, you have just chosen not to for reasons that are your own. Moving anywhere for anything requires a HUGE commitment on your part and your family's. But if you really believe in what is coming then the time for action is NOW otherwise you are simply reacting. And as we all know, reacting is less desireable the being pre-emptive.

Children are meant to run free through meadows, fields and pastures, they are meant to climb trees, catch tiddlers, pick wild fruit, and make dens in the hedgrows. Children are meant to be able to run 100 yards in ANY direction without having to stop and look for traffic or gangstas waiting to rob them. Children are meant to fall and come home with grass and mud on their kness and bums, not to come home with broken glass and used needles sticking out of them. Children are ALL that is important to us and when you choose to have a family you must be willing to change and adapt your lifestyle to give them the best environment to grow up in. If you take your responsibility seriously then you have to make sacrifices. I did I gave up a bloody good job to move out of the city and into the countryside, yes money is now tighter but my family especially the kids are happier, more secure and we are all better prepared.

One thing I agree with is that you have to make sacrifices and give up everything for your kids. I will disagree with how easy you guys make it sound. When the finances aren't there what can you do. I was married w/kid by 21 and gave up my entire life from that point on then had 2 more kids.

I made mistakes and learned plenty of wisdom from my experiences but in having to learn from trial and error, I was living paycheck to paycheck in a society designed to keep us slaves. Now where would you guys suggest I get money to buy a house or land? Sounds easy in words but when put to reality isn't as simple.

Don't tell me about dedication because I commited myself life and soul to family and give everything of myself. I would love nothing more than to live on a hundred acres or more in the country. If I had the land alone I could literally build the house,electric,plumbing, heating and septic sytems all by myself.

Just supplies alone are extremely expensive.Comes down to money because this was the design to keep us slaves. If I had the money I could easily build said compound and be totally self reliant including food. When society collapsed I would be one of the few up and still running. Don't get me wrong, I could live little house on the prairie style, but why not live with the amenities of life if you can do it in advance and sustain it yourself.

So as the OP added although he's working on it as I am, It sounds easy to tell someone to move when theres no funds available and considering the current economic state of affairs (or should I say raping of the American taxpayers) I don't think I'll be getting a loan anytime in the near future

Originally posted by Northern Raider
i'll repost this from YT on the ZS forum for the benefit of the new Yorkers

part 1: general vibe & timing
Not to get too political or off-topic here, but I think it's relevant to mention -- if you weren't living in NYC when 9/11 happened you can't really have any idea of how pervasive the after effects were on daily life. Even years later.

Yes, I was here during 9/11... lived here my whole life so I can relate to the story.

To those saying move now... I already said I can't at the moment. I did say I'm working on it though.... but I get it...just can't right now unless I'm going to have us living in a tent under a tree somewhere.

As far as teaching and training my kids... well yes and no. My wife is good, she pays attention to me and sees for herself that things aren't good. My one son is just 4 but very smart and learns fast. I do teach him, not just survival things but everyday things also. I'm not one to say get out of here I'm busy or send him off because he's too young. He's got his own computer and knows how to use it, he's helped me build one on more than one occasion..he's even helped me when I worked on the car. Just everyday stuff that most parents don't let their young kids help them with because 'they're too young'. My wife yells because he gets greasy and dirty but he's a little boy... he's supposed to get dirty.

My other son...well he's only 8 months old so I don''t think shooting lessons are appropriate yet. Maybe once he can walk on his own

It would appear that survival techniques would depend on the emergency, and whether you live in a city or in the country with open spaces.

To not be prepared for a disaster is imprudent.

Preparation is a matter of trade-offs. You can't have it all. Everything weighs something.

In the field in combat, without protective gear, I trimmed my necessities down to food, water, a six-ounce medical kit, firestarting, water purification pills, weapons, and a multipurpose lightweight blanket.

I have provided all three children their own "bug-out" bags, complete with weapons.

Depending on the environment, one will often do better avoiding others, and laying low. When forced to traverse a territory, one must travel cautiously, slowly, and avoid bottlenecks.

The untrodden path is the one I'll take every single time. It's frequently more difficult, but always much safer.

Most important, is a rendevous point, or points. Everyone knows to get to the primary, and after a suitable waiting period, a secondary and other backups. There is strength in numbers.

One other thing. It's mandatory that someone is awake and alert when others are resting. It's easier to "observe" and defend one, single, anticipated line of approach.

Not to be confused with getting cornered. Just know that others will walk around obstacles, and generally take the easiest approach themselves when traversing a territory.

If no other weapons are available, a lawnmower blade, the shaft of a garden tool, and even some garden tools will provide a bit of defense.

The best defense is to avoid confrontations.

Well, I am working on survival methods with my husband so we can be prepared. As I always say here: SHTF can be a personal situation where you are lost hiking and need to survive, you are in a SHTF situation. It happens more often then people think. Look how many cars slide off the road that no one finds for weeks.

Anywhoo,

My favorite book to tout is "The Unthinkable: Who Survives Disasters and Why"by Amanda Ripley.

I think this is a MUST READ.

The author did extensive research. covers every kind of response and why. And why people react the way they do.

The most important piece of information that she can't emphasis enough is knowledge and practice.

For example, there was a large company of thousands of employees in the WTC. The head of security always predicted another attack. He made routine and practice fire drills. He showed people how to get out of the building. He even made the CEOs, who usually ignore it, go along, much to their annoyance.

When 9/11 happened, he only lost a handful of people, due to his dilligence.
Not only did he train everyone, he also had regular training for leaders in each office, who also knew what to do.

When people know what they are doing, their survival rate is much higher.

The author makes a point that in an ER situation, it can be 26 before the S&R dogs even show up.

There was a town outside of NO that did not pretend they would never get hit buy a hurricane. They had regular drills, where every soul had ER bags packed, would get into boats, and get to a destination. Every person knew their order and what they were doing, and what timeframe to do it in. they held drills regularly.

They did not lose a single a person.

Authorities teach us to rely only ER personnel.




When people are prepared, they increase their liklihood of survival.

That all being said: children are a lot smarter then we give them credit for. You can easily prepare a child to do things. Even as young as three you can start teaching children how to do things. For the younger ones, it is not necessary to scare them, but approach these things from a hobby or learning standpoint.

The older ones I would not scare, but say: anything can happen.

Take them camping, and frequently, and as long as a duration as you can. So they get used to being in the outdoors a little bit. You don't want to take a pampered child and suddenly throw them in a situation.

Children can't survive without their parents, but the situation doesn't need to be made exponentially difficult because a child is totally shell shocked and bewildered by a situation.

If a child is used to microwave meals and video games, they may have a hard time adjusting.

And some very important things that can be done, that is a good idea for kids anyways:

have them do chores. In a situation where it is survival mode, kids generally have to work.

In the Amish country, children are up at five doing chores. So kids need to be conditioned to some physical labor.

And make them accept and adapt to change easily. Kids are pretty tough anyways, but some may be more resistent to change anyways. Find ways to keep their environments changing, and how they can adapt to it.

Teach them how to do without. Challenge them to give up something for a week. Maybe even for extra allowence money. This will also help the learn to adapt to change.

P.S Primordial

My husband will be depending on me, not the other way around.

And I think the men will be surprised at how capable women can be and survive in such a situation.

Originally posted by Revealation
...So as the OP added although he's working on it as I am, It sounds easy to tell someone to move when theres no funds available and considering the current economic state of affairs (or should I say raping of the American taxpayers) I don't think I'll be getting a loan anytime in the near future

I don't recall anyone saying it was easy. I do recall other members speaking of sacrifices and difficult decisions and such. Money, albeit necessary to live within the societal norm, is really more of a hindrance.

Do you own now? If not, then what is the difference between renting here or there? If you do own, could you sell it for a profit? Those proceeds could be put toward cheaper accomodations outside of the city. It is important to remember that getting out of NYC will make everything in life more affordable.

But I digress... making the decision to move for any reason is hard. making a decision to move and change your lifestyle is even harder. Humans object to change and cling to the status quo - that is human nature. It is up to each of us indicidually to dig deep within ourselves and mine that which we hold most dear. For me, it is my child and her future.

Encouraging people to drop out of their lives because it is the way you would do it isn't actually helpful.

I think I'm going to chime in here with some knowledge here.

As children my siblings and I kind of ended up in a bad situation for a couple of years, and slipped through "the cracks in the system."

Because of that, we operated pretty much without parental oversight for a number of years. The youngest of us was 4-7 during this period of time, and the old (me) was 7-10.

Your children are far more capable than they are given credit for.

You and your children can survive on FAR less calories than you are expecting to plan for. And remain very active. I can attest to that personally. We were active children, out most of the day summer or winter, in an urban environment. -30C to +35C.

We could, and regularly did walk many kilometers in a day with little food or drink.

Our culture of food accessibility and excess I believe tends to make us think that we would require FAR more food than you really would under the bad circumstances.

You need water. You don't actually need to pack a ton of food. You really don't. You might not like it, your children might not be too impressed. But you can live, and be active on far far fewer nutrients and calories for years at a time.

To give you a slight idea, I would guesstimate that my siblings and I survived on the occassional normal to large high fat meal once a month. A real meal about once a week or two. Maybe a bit of something scrounged up every couple of days. Some bread. An apple from the school lunch "don't want it" pile. Now, after several years we were starting to look like famine victims. But it did take several years before the effects were becoming extreme enough for the gaunt big belly look to set in.

I think I want you to see this so that you can determine a more realistic approach to necessary food consumption for even a years time. The human condition over time has often meant lean years. You and your children can survive a lean year. Even on a restricted and perhaps a somewhat lacking diet. It is survivable. You really don't need to plan on the 2000 calorie diet for a year. Or even a couple of days.



[edit on 2009/1/12 by Aeons]

My wife and I are preparing to get a small house in the vountry with my mother and youngest brother.

I then will start growing my own fruit and veggies, learning to hunt, and taking some close combat training.

Originally posted by Zarathustria
Do you not see, though, that a one world government would absolutely shoot humanity into an entirely new level of existence? Instead of fighting with ourselves, we can finally explore the cosmos in huge proportions.

Nothing will happen.

As for being afraid... far from it.

[edit: to add the following]

I don't live with my daughter. She is also some considerable distance from me. As harsh as it sounds my safety comes first. If I found myself in a position to be able to enquire as to her well being and present her with the option of joining me I would, but not if it endangered my existence.

[edit on 12-1-2009 by Nirgal]

Originally posted by Revealation
One thing I agree with is that you have to make sacrifices and give up everything for your kids. I will disagree with how easy you guys make it sound. When the finances aren't there what can you do. I was married w/kid by 21 and gave up my entire life from that point on then had 2 more kids.

Oh by god it was not easy, My parents wont talk to me after we moved away,we ended up in rented accomodation that turned out to be a former druggies house so we had cops and dealers banging on the door at all hours, the job I was promised did not materialise, and my wife and I damn well nearly split up. But we worked it out out, found a better place to live, I found more work not as much money but better than nothing. But it was worth the sacrifices in the end. Now we are skint but happy and living in a nice vilage with a good little school for Tom, clean air, clean water low crime and plenty of room for preparedness. Nothing good comes to us easy, we have to work and make sacrifices to get a better deal.

We can argue the pros and cons of just how far people will go to be better prepared and better located to survive a crisis, even the majority of survivalists wont move home and have some amazing reasons/ excuses why they can't/won't move. but two points remain constant

Families generally are better off outside of cities

Cities are lost causes for survivalists in the long term.

I friend of mine said if you hook a pump up to the city water spicket you can pump potible water ... whats left in the line ... thought it was worth sharing.

Well in place less politically stable .. they have walls around their properties and you had better believe they will defend their terf... when you call a cop is afterwards for record keeping purposes...

reply to post by Zarathustria


Wow, Nothing will happen huh. I wonder if the jews were told that to. I wonder if the romans were told that to. I wonder if all the people who died on SEP 11th thought that nothing would happen. You seem to live in a world where the grass will always be green. Well we dont live in a perfect world, We live in a world where stuff DOES happen and you have to be prepared for it. Saying nothing will ever happen is the most idiotic thing I can ever hear from people.

She's lucky to have you.

Originally posted by Nirgal

Originally posted by Zarathustria
Do you not see, though, that a one world government would absolutely shoot humanity into an entirely new level of existence? Instead of fighting with ourselves, we can finally explore the cosmos in huge proportions.

Nothing will happen.

As for being afraid... far from it.

[edit: to add the following]

I don't live with my daughter. She is also some considerable distance from me. As harsh as it sounds my safety comes first. If I found myself in a position to be able to enquire as to her well being and present her with the option of joining me I would, but not if it endangered my existence.

[edit on 12-1-2009 by Nirgal]