Australia and US Alliance-the next step?

Allies for many many years. USA is my favourite place to visit from Australia. Our friendship seems to have taken a strange twist. Should we Aussies have blindly followed USA into Iraq or should we, even as friends, questioned motives more? We are all trapped in Iraq now. If we all GO! then the vacuum will be filled by training camps full of 250,000 starving, unhoused and unloved young men, whose heads are easily filled with whatever their providers of food and shelter wish. Instead of 'x' number of activist extremists wishing to blow all westerners and their supporters to pieces, we may well have 'x plus 250,000' of the same. Not good! They'd be impossible to 'track' yet alone STOP. What do you think?

[Edited on 9-4-2004 by Gordon57]

Sadly, it was not the choice of Australia to move in on the decision. The same thing applies to other states of the UK commonwealth. The decision was made because the US is unofficially part of the UK commonwealth, a la the creation of the Virginia Company in circa 1766. The call probably originated at the highest levels of the UK government, which can help to explain why GW Nimrod Bush was one of select few US Presidents to visit the Queen, herself.

A friend usually questions the other friend when they think there is some wrongdoing going on, correct? Usually in an effort to prevent the friend from hurting themselves, if I am not mistaken.

So definitely, if the UK and its allies had any choice in the matter, they should have not only questioned the decision, but outright refused the idea. Judging by the profuse amount of resistance coming from all sides of the alliance, this war in Iraq was not really wanted by anyone other than those who had the most to gain from it. Because those spoiled brat kids know how to cry the loudest (metaphorically), they got their way.

[Edited on 4/8/2004 by AlnilamOmega]

After 9-11 and Bali, having given the Yanks and the Aussies a good kicking, I was surprised that it was the Spaniards who got it next. I would have thought that the Pommies (UK) would have been a logical next target, and somewhere where the terrorists could get their personnel and equipment to, safely. I was thinking of The Islands of Majorca and Ibiza as being prime targets to cause maximum upset to the English-perhaps this coming northern summer may be a dangerous time for pommies on Holiday.

Is it just an Australian thing to give nicknames to every populace?
Well, right now Australia has the highest concentration of useful land resources so the United States is looking foward to a long fruitful relationship.
This is just my first post on a random topic, I am just trying to relate the time I posted it to the time it says. Since I don't have DST I suspect some error.

I think that the US does respect the opinions and views of Canada, the UK and Australia very much. I also think the American and Australians have alot in common, both historically and culturally, than both may realize. I think many Americans admire the Australians, and see in them many qualities that American look for in themselves.

Despite the fact that we Americans sometimes act brashly, I think it would be a mistake to believe that all Americans routinely ignore the opinions and concerns of our British, Canadian, and Aussie friends.

As an Australian, I feel that the American government has definitely lost the plot as far as foreign relations goes. It was once supposed to be the land of truth freedom and liberty, a shining example to us all.

These days it has sunk to the lowest depths of gun boat diplomacy and overt political corruption.

Although the Australian government is still gong through all the motions of loyal friendship with America, there is a growing anger and discontent within grass roots Australia.

When our fearless leader John Howard visited America the pictures of him fawning at the feet of GWB were enough to sicken a lot of Australians. The now leader of the opposition party very publicly called John Howard an ASS LICKER in Parliament. It caused a furore at the time, and created newspaper headlines.

If as I expect, we will have a change of government here next election, the USA can scrub Australia as a friend. I expect this to be the big hot issue at the next election.

The opposition party already have stated they will withdraw ALL troops ASAP from Iraq once they are elected.

Americans should begin to realise that the rest of the world does not give a stuff about the price of gasoline in America or how much money the American oil companies make. It is now almost at the stage of USA versus the rest of the world. It is going to get ugly.

America is without a doubt the most hated nation in the world. Please try to understand why this is so.

Also understand that Rome was never beaten militarily, it rotted away from within, just as America is.

I'll agree things look messy again. I believe Australians and other allies are friendly towards the US. I do get upset when I keep hearing how others hate the US. What do they want us to do now? I don't hear any good advice. Do we announce we're leaving Iraq, they're on their own now? Do we see people murdered on the streets on the evening news and do nothing because we are supposed to be in charge and it might get some people upset if we try to catch murderers? Good questions, we could have turned the other cheek and left the murderers alone and just say they will run that city. I guess we would just have to give up and get out of dodge then.

As an American I get upset that I thought we were trying to rebuild Iraq sending many billions of our tax dollars over there as a gift and this is how we get respected. If we pull out all our forces we will get condemned for abandoning Iraq. Guess the usa will probably tough it out and withstand the public condemnation. I rather be yelled out then have some terrorist from the middle east blowing us up in our hometowns.

Note: I keep hearing in the Iraqi polls that most Iraqis don't want the US led coalition to leave immediately. We are in charge at the moment good or bad and trying to rebuild the country. If someone has some good ideas I would like to hear them. This is a public internet after all. The American public is listening even if our politicians don't always seem to. Our politicians will listen to the American public. Hears hoping for more peaceful times.

Originally posted by orionthehunter
Hears hoping for more peaceful times.

I could not agree more on that thought...

The current administration's Foreign policies are definitely affected by the fact that prior to becoming president, Bush had never travelled outside the US save for the exception of visiting Canada. I truly believe that travel greatly increases one's understanding and respect for other countries and cultures. I think that Bush's world views are a bit skewed as a result.

[Edited on 9-4-2004 by Facefirst]

My belief is that the UN refused to back Bush because he had no case to make regarding the invasion of Iraq. That should have been the end of it. When every nation tells you you are wrong, maybe a little introspection is required.

Bush went ahead and invaded a defenseless country based on a lie that they had WMD and were a threat to US security. The US should withdraw immediately and allow the UN to maintain the peace. The US should pay war reparations and Bush should be tried in the international court as a war criminal.

Fat chance.

Of course there are lies piled upon lies, it is all propaganda. I bet the average Iraqi that has had his house bombed flat and family members killed is really anxious for the US to stay and continue the killing and the destruction.

So some dork prints in a US newspaper how nearly all Iraqis are in love with America and wish them to stay. How dumb must the American public be to believe that.

After Pearl harbor, did America ask the Japanese to please come back and do it all over again ? Or did FDR and the American public get just a little bit angry and fight back?

When America is finally invaded and there are foreign tanks on every street corner, and foreign helicopter gunships overhead, I bet the average American will be overjoyed about being liberated. Everyone will be out cheering and waving foreign flags, anxious for a new puppet government that will finally bring freedom to America.

The only thing that can save America now is an internal military coup. Hopefully, relatively bloodless. Elect a new government of honest politicians and restore truth and justice, rule of law, the original constitution, and a democratic system of representation of the people.

There are men of very great Honor and integrity in the military, it is a most Honorable profession. Most have a very great sense of history and national pride. It is the greedy self serving politicians that are the scumbags.

Withdraw all american troops stationed overseas, and keep the hell out of the internal affairs of other countries unless it is part of a UN sanctioned operation.

What must you do? Get yourselves a decent government that reflects the will and best interest of all Americans. Try to resolve differences with real diplomacy, and abide by UN decisions even when it hurts.

I do not hate America or Americans as many of you probably think. I do not hate Iraqis or Muslims either. I think Saddam and Bush are equally terrible and must be removed from power. I just want to see peace and an end to the killing.

Is that really so bad ?

Originally posted by WarpspeedThe US should pay war reparations and Bush should be tried in the international court as a war criminal.

He's already been found guilty in a citizens' tribunal that brought charges related to the Afghan confilct.
I don't think it carries much weight though.

The Prosecution has presented a formidable Indictment against the Defendant, George Walker Bush, President of the United States and Commander -in-Chief of US military forces for serious crimes ; waging a war of aggression on Afghanistan, war crimes and crimes against humanity against the Afghan people, against prisoners of war ; and the use of radioactive depleted uranium weapons of mass destruction , against the people of Afghanistan ; with serious fall out effects on the military personnel of the United States ,UK and other forces deployed ; and on countries, in and around the region .

www.scoop.co.nz...
www.japantimes.co.jp...

I was thinking of The Islands of Majorca and Ibiza as being prime targets to cause maximum upset to the English-perhaps this coming northern summer may be a dangerous time for pommies on Holiday.

Those islands are Spaniard territory. Majorca and Ibiza are part of the balearic islands. So an attack to them would still have been an attack to Spain.

Yes I know the islands are of Spain. I was thinking of Bali (Indonesia) and Indonesians being slaughtered, but the prime target was Australians on vacation. The action may be on Spanish territory (heaven forbid anything like this does happen) but the casualty list will be targeted at English tourists.

I disagree that Iraq and Sadam was no threat to the US. He had lots of smallpox and other biological and chemical weapons. What noone seems to know is what happened to all of it. Did he destroy it after the gulf war or did it get buried or trucked over to Syria? It appears at least for now in terms of WMD that Bush was wrong and he looks not too bright for attacking a country with that as a main reason.

If a foreign leader sent assasins to your country to try to kill your president or former leaders as revenge, do you think that would warrant an attack or war with that country?
Well Sadam did that and other things. I'm not trying to defend Bush or what's going on now but adding some perspective here. I'm all for peace.

I dont care if Saddam had WMD or not. He was a mad man and killed and tortured many people....Not saying that the Allies who went ahead and invaded Iraq and got rid of Saddam outta power aren't mad men themselves....but at least the Iraqi's will be having a better life instead of living in total fear 24/7 from a mad an and his henchmen. I'm not saying that busha nd his cronies, and the allies are not going to make the Iraqi's fearful, nor comment about the lives lost in Iraq on both sides, the civilians, and the allied forces....

I'm just saying that once Iraq gets back up and running, settled down, and the allied forces leave the country to run itself....and defend itself with it's new army....Under freedom, The Iraqi's will lead a better life than what would have been under Saddam....well apart from 2000 Nagasaki nuclear bombs worth of radioactive material lying about the place and the future abominations that will be born there, and the death caused by it for millenia...

If you cant see what side i'm on....that's coz i'm on no side...war is not friendly for anyone, people get hurt and killed, and that's just a waste of humanity...

BTW....where is the worlds humanity gone? Has it ever been? Or has our humanity been growing lately? or does it just disappear as soon as more conflict occurs?

Where's da love? Show me the love!

The problem with the world is love.

[Edited on 15-4-2004 by DaRAGE]