UN: IDF shelled evacuated civilians

reply to post by vox2442

The claims should be investigated independently. Not by Israel, not by Hamas, but by an independent body with no shade of ties to either.

I agree 100%.

reply to post by JanusFIN


what?

don't take me as an anti-american, but seeing all this unfold in the world media everywhere - except in the american and israeli msm's. My question is, how long before we see the world stand up against USA ???

One can only push others so far before they retaliate en mass.

reply to post by jam321

Prof, I believe eyewitness from both sides present a problem. I just think the UN is jumping the gun and taking sides. It is one thing for the media to report it, it is another issue when the UN, a supposedly impartial organization, claims it.

I absolutely agree with you. The problem is "How do we get independent investigators in Gaza when Israel won't let anyone in?"

The UN is worthless. All they do is talk. What have they done in Darfur?

04326

I don't take you as an anti-American. You are just expressing a potential possibility. However, the reality is that all governments are Judases. Ready to betray each other at any given moment. It basically boils down to the issue of the week for them to decide which side they will be on.

No difference than the friends i Have on this site. On this very same issue we see things from opposing view. Even though we try to keep it civil, there are times when words get pretty heavy. On next weeks issue we may start agreeing again.

Governments do what governments want to do. If it was really up to the people, many of these issues wouldn't be an issue today.

I really believe people get along with each other than government with other governments.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


They need to find a neutral country to let them in just like they lobbied Israel to let the humanitarian aid in. More than that the UN needs to start finding away to get some of those civilians out of harms way. Day 14 and they still haven't tried to get any out. For God's sake, get them to safety till this is all over. They try to do it for every other battle, why not this one.

reply to post by jam321

No difference than the friends i Have on this site. On this very same issue we see things from opposing view. Even though we try to keep it civil, there are times when words get pretty heavy. On next weeks issue we may start agreeing again.

Good point. I consider you a good friend, although we see things differently on this issue. Although we may disagree, I would never knowingly be rude to you, or uncivil. I don't think there are two people in the world that agree on every single issue, and if they do, it would probably be a very boring relationship.

Also, I hope people understand that in most cases, the citizens of the US are held hostage to the MSM in terms of what they know. In some ways, the US today is like the USSR was in the 1960's and 1970's, when the only news they got was tow-the-government-line Pravda.
Although there are many different networks, most of them just mimic the same line, and yes, most of the news is so shallow, that it is not worth listening to(unless of course, you want to know about Brittany Spears or Paris Hilton or Obama-the-Savior-of-the-world(not)).
That is why I get my news from various internet sources, and participate on ATS. I WANT to know what other peoples think, and what they know. I fully admit we are not exposed to the whole truth.

Prof,

Thanks for being a good friend. I also agree that US news is shallow. Everything that happened in 2008 is proof of that. I also use many sources to get my news. This war will continue between these two off and on for many years to come. I just hope thatthe two side soon realize that their citizens did not ask for this war.

reply to post by jam321

This war will continue between these two off and on for many years to come. I just hope thatthe two side soon realize that their citizens did not ask for this war.

True. It seems that they have much in common with the US citizens. We didn't ask for the bailouts, but Congress didn't listen to us either.

i am not the least bit surprised by the lack of outrage from our US gov't

do you see the amount of people in our gov't holding dual citizenship,, with israel

why be a dual citizen,,,, especially when in gov't,, your probably on a career track and looking for retirement,,, so it's not like your not staying

it made me wonder when i saw how many hold dual citizenship,,, and now i see why our gov't is so pro-israel

clearly bad dual citizens
from this website---www.viewzone.com...

Jonathan Jay Pollard was an American-Israeli citizen who worked for the US government. He is well known because he stole more secrets from the U.S. than has any other spy in American history. During his interrogation Pollard said he felt compelled to put the "interests of my state" ahead of his own. Although as a U.S. Navy counter-intelligence specialist he had a top-secret security clearance, by "my state" he meant the state of Israel.

Jonathan Jay Pollard was an American-Israeli citizen who worked for the US government. He is well known because he stole more secrets from the U.S. than has any other spy in American history. During his interrogation Pollard said he felt compelled to put the "interests of my state" ahead of his own. Although as a U.S. Navy counter-intelligence specialist he had a top-secret security clearance, by "my state" he meant the state of Israel.

Literally tens of thousands of Americans holding U.S. passports admit they feel a primary allegiance to the state of Israel. In many instances, these Americans vote in Israeli elections, wear Israeli uniforms and fight in Israeli wars. Many are actively engaged both in the confiscation of Palestinian lands and in the Israeli political system. Three examples come to mind:

One is Rabbi Meir Kahane, who founded the militant Jewish Defense League in the U.S. in the 1960s, then emigrated to Israel where, eventually, he was elected to the Knesset. Until he was shot and killed at one of his U.S. fund-raising rallies in 1990, the Brooklyn-born rabbi shuttled between Tel Aviv and New York, where he recruited militant American Jews for his activities in Israel against Palestinians. He claimed to be a "dual citizen" of America and Israel.

Another Jewish American, James Mahon from Alexandria, Virginia, reportedly was on a secret mission to kill PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat when he was shot in 1980 by an unknown assailant. When he was shot, Mahon held an American M-16 in his hand and a U.S. passport in his pocket.

Then there was Alan Harry Goodman, an American Jew who left his home in Baltimore, Maryland, flew to Israel and served in the Israeli army. Then, on April 11, 1982, armed with an Uzi submachine gun, he walked, alone, to Al-Aqsa, Jerusalem's most holy Islamic shrine, where he opened fire, killing two Palestinians and wounding others. Both the U.S. and Israeli governments played down the incident, as did the media.

Most recently, US Navy Petty Officer, Ariel J. Weinmann, while serving at or near Bahrain, Mexico, and Austria, "with intent or reason to believe it would be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of a foreign nation (Israel), [attempted] to communicate, deliver or transmit classified CONFIDENTIAL and SECRET information relating to the national defense, to a representative, officer, agent or employee of a foreign government." Weinmann was apprehended on March 26 after being listed as "a deserter by his command," according to the US Navy. The information he gathered was supplied to Israel.

BREAKING NEWS -- April 22, 2008, Ben-Ami Kadish, a Connecticut-born U.S. dual citizen who worked in New Jersey was arrested and charged with giving top secret nuclear information and details about the US Patriot Missile to an Israeli agent -- the same agent involved with the Jay Pollard case. The espionage charges reportedly stem from acts committed in the 1980s. These activities, like the ones with convicted spy Pollard, were immediately denied by Israel (Pollard pleaded guilty in 1986). It is further reported that Israeli officials instructed Kadish to lie to US investigators. Kadish is scheduled to be arraigned on Tuesday afternoon [April 22, 2008] at U.S. District Court in Manhattan, authorities said. More details coming soon.



i counted 44 current or up till recently us gov't officials from this link/article www.viewzone.com...

many real familiar names such as

Ari Fleischer
Ex- White House Spokesman for the Bush (Jr) Administration

David Frum
White House speechwriter

Joshua Bolten
White House Deputy Chief of Staff

John Bolton
Former UN Representative and Under-Secretary of State for Arms Control and International Securit

Ari Fleischer
Ex- White House Spokesman for the Bush (Jr) Administration

Elliott Abrams
National Security Council Advisor.

I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby
Vice President Dick Cheney's ex-Chief of Staff

Paul Wolfowitz
Former Deputy Defense Secretary,

Michael Chertoff
Former Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division,

Michael Mukasey
Recently appointed as US Attorney General.

The picture becomes more clear every day.

This war is designed to terrorise the Gaza people and try to strip them of their last strips of land.

It is surprising to me that the country that tries to lecture the world about holocausts and etnic clensing is using the same tactics as they try to blame on their enemies.
I thought the people of isreal would know better (from experience) that you cant treat people like this.

Targeting civilians on a scale like this is just an act of murder.

From the looks of it they seems to see the Gaza people as "untermenschen".

Hamas is not interested in stopping the fighting.

Israel and Hamas were not parties to the council vote and it is now up to them to stop the fighting. But a Hamas spokesman said the Islamic militant group "is not interested" in the cease-fire because it was not consulted and the resolution did not meet its minimum demands.Text

Source


Apparently Hamas doesn't want U.N. observers on the ground there because it would expose all the bogus "information" that is coming out of Gaza. Remember - if the fighting stops, Hamas is out of business.

The United Nations Security Council approved Gaza Strip ceasefire resolution number 1860.
The resolution, submitted by Britain, passed with a majority of 14 votes. The United States abstained from voting

This is why Israel does as it wants no matter what the UN says because "Daddy America" is saying ZIP!

Ira ship suppose to be in Gaza today? Lets see what happens then. Anyone want to make a bet on US intervention??

Ahhhhh The plot thickens

Let me get this straight, they put 110 people into a house? How big was that "house"? I know that I can't get 110 people inside my house, at least not with any room to move around. Now take a look at the size of the houses in Gaza, they are not that big. Either there is an error in translation here, or this is a false rumor.

Kind of like all those "wedding parties" that our guys bombed in Afghanistan, the ones with lots of bad guys laying around but no bride or groom.

Originally posted by poet1b
Rumor is that Hamas staged the whole thing, killing their fellow Pal's for publicity. What can you say, house of the same ole, same ole.

My first response was,"Now that just isn't right". But knowing how addicted to violence and death this cult is, I suspected that Hamas terrorist might be behind it. Look at it like this:

1. 2005 video showing Hamas rockets blow up a crowd of people watching a parade in Gaza is regurgitated and used as a video to blame Israel for air strikes that took place about 10 days ago....then exposed as a lie and the cult of death and terror lovers run and hide with egg on their faces.

2. We have exposed numerous Palywood Productions showing fake dead and injured which were staged to blame Israel.

3. Hamas fires a rocket at Israel which lands on two little Palestinian girls in Gaza, killing them, but no uproar from the Palistinian people against the killings by Hamas terrorist.

It would not surprise me if Hamas used this location (where the 100 people were moved to) for attempting to launch rockets, and they had a catastrophic failure, killing their own people.

This is exactly the type of event(whether it's their accident or staged murders)the cult of death and terror would blame on Israel.

If it's found to be true, any of us would condemn the act and I'm sure heads will role in the IDF. But I doubt it is true.

Nice to hear from you again poet1b

Originally posted by jaamaan
The picture becomes more clear every day.

This war is designed to terrorise the Gaza people and try to strip them of their last strips of land.

It is surprising to me that the country that tries to lecture the world about holocausts and etnic clensing is using the same tactics as they try to blame on their enemies.
I thought the people of isreal would know better (from experience) that you cant treat people like this.

Targeting civilians on a scale like this is just an act of murder.

From the looks of it they seems to see the Gaza people as "untermenschen".

It's likely a staged event or a bogus report. Don't allow yourself to get caught up in the lynch mob mentality and hang Israel for this yet. That is exactly what Hamas is trying to do. It's an ancient ploy called divide and conquer. Remember the video that was posted last week? The 2005 Hamas parade video in which a truck load of their own rockets exploded killing civilians in Gaza was passed off as an Israeli air strike last week, then exposed for what it really was and the cult of death and terror lovers ended up with egg on their faces for jumping the gun and blaming Israel.

Just calm down. We are in WW3 here. It's a War against the Cult that uses suicide, hatred, death, terrorists, propaganda, threats, confusion, murder of citizens(including their own) and all kinds of destructive destabilizing acts to advance their evil cause.

How can any reasonable person jump the gun on this and flat out believe this report before any proper investigation is done. Here is more truth for you:

Israeli Operation Spares Civilians; Hamas Targets Them
(you have to manually add /14895 to the URL to get the page).

www.asiantribune.com.../14895

Hamas Murders Children in Palestine, Blames Israel

www.israelnewsagency.com...

[edit on 10-1-2009 by John Matrix]

Here is the latest on the Iranian aid ship:

10 January 2009 An Iranian aid ship, destined for Palestinians, has reportedly entered Egyptian waters and is scheduled to dock at the port of Gaza on Saturday. According to IRIB, the ship, with 2,000 tons of humanitarian aid, passed through the Suez Canal and will head for Gaza "after obtaining needed permissions". The move followed Israeli strikes on the impoverished strip, which have killed nearly 800 Palestinians and injured thousands more. The Iranian ship carried medicine and foodstuffs, including rice, flour, sugar as well as a group of medics and nurses. The Islamic Republic has also sent several consignments of humanitarian aid to Gaza via Egypt. Since 2007, Tel Aviv imposed a siege on the tiny coastal region, which has given rise to a humanitarian crisis in Gaza, putting lives of almost 1.5 million residents at stake. Interests Section Meanwhile, Hossein Rajabi, the head of Iran's Interests Section in Egypt, and his accompany delegation on Thursday visited injured Palestinians in a Cairo hospital. The Palestinians, injured in the course of Zionists' incursion on Gaza, called on Muslim and Arab states to extend more assistance to the oppressed Gaza people regarding the wide scope of Zionists' merciless crimes in the occupied territories, IRNA reported. Based on reports, Iran's Interests Section in Egypt is making arrangements to dispatch a number of the injured to Iran for medical treatment.

zawya.com...

reply to post by John Matrix

It's a War against the Cult that uses suicide, hatred, death, terrorists, propaganda, threats, confusion, murder of citizens(including their own) and all kinds of destructive destabilizing acts to advance their evil cause.

Yep, except for the suicides, you've just described the state of Israel.

hey.. Forum Trolls ' i am going to use some language
so feel free to discard my post:
(not about the news but about the whole vibe in here)

I did not have the paitience to read all the crap you wrote
i just got obnoxious by your knowledge of the whole story,
you f**ks don't know even what you are talking about.' you spend most of your time by the keyboard feeding stories that has no foundation.

i thougth there are free and logic minds here, but I have been proven wrong. There never been a situation i felt a need to quote A.I:
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
So' Trolls ', do your F***ing hypocrite thing,
by the way, I urge you to come live in Sderot or any other bombarded town in Israel one day,rockets supllied By Iran' yes the same Iran that hangs hoosexuals in the town square,I will see you singing another song.

The world never stops to surprise me, you are a true window to the world.
here some video' do me a favor watch it, nothing special' just watch it
it is couple of seconds.
www.youtube.com...

All Israel wanted from its establishment is to leave in peace and quiet with its arab neighbours,(Ah by the way there are no really a people called palestinians, and jordanians and the vast majority of other arab "nations")
But as i see here the consensus regarding whole history of the arab israeli
conflict is: Israel are massacring poor palestinians that just want peace, and that the israelis leave them alone. But those F***ing jews are so thirsty for "palestinian" children blood that they will do anything to find a reason to kill some "palestinians"' Yeah just for fun because it is the essence of Israel.
Israel is so happy in being in war for its all ears of existence. Yeah.

So here you go Trolls' I fed you.

Here is some great education.



here some human shield fo you.
i80.photobucket.com...

Education is first- it is our future:
www.youtube.com...

and of course : UN Hypocrisy the so righteous organization:
www.youtube.com...

www.youtube.com...


and finally i wish you for the new year to suddenly find yourself living next to some f**ked up crazy muslims.And that someday they decide that they hate you. Then buy some explosives and start to make bombs for you and throw them into your home.Then people will ask you to not respond or use some restraint.Because after all you can understand them don't you.


[edit on 11-1-2009 by johnny_hm]

[edit on 11-1-2009 by johnny_hm]