Has anyone read this book??

According to NM, there are only 3 ways that one can conquer an occupied country.

1. Ruin It

2. Live in that Country

3. Let them live by their own laws


This is why Bush will never have success in Iraq!!

We should in Iraq.

Ruin it, like Afganistan

Build a garrison outside of any of the towns we want to later rebuild

Draw a line in the sand and tell the Iraqis 'pass it and you die'

And then let them live the way they want, while methodically impedding any progress they have at rebuilding any sort of military power outside of the assests that we allocate them.

ie let them kill each other if they so choose.

And when they are sick of the in-fighting and want the US to help them re-build, just pack up all our forces and supplies and leave the country.

Then the Iraqis will realize what they have done to both themselves and their country. And they can spend the next 50 years trying to rebuild their country out of 3 world status.

A few "misguided" bombing runs might make quick work of the Iraqis ability to amass enough cash from the sales of "?" to detere another Dictator from taking power.

To lie to get into war and then say oops my bad...is completely Machiavellian. The Prince is a piece of horse#. The fact that it is still used just shows how far humans have to go as a race. As long as that garbage is shaping political thought we'll never be able to trust a politican. I wouldn't even trust someone who's read it.

I wouldn't even trust someone who's read it.

Wow...

I don't even know what to say to this. I suppose the following will have to do:

This is the singularly most ignorant thing I have ever read in my life.

And as for the "the fact that it is still used shows how far humans have to go as a race" bit?

We still use water. We still use oxygen. We still read books.

Political knowledge rarely becomes obsolete, and political knowledge as general as that in The Prince >never becomes obsolete.

I was going to say "please use your blasted brain before posting again", but I'm nicer than that.

Cordially,

Xenographer

Wait,

if 500 year old politics is shaping the current political scene.....


then IT WAS before its time, and not a piece of #...

Originally posted by Saphronia
To lie to get into war and then say oops my bad...is completely Machiavellian. The Prince is a piece of horse#. The fact that it is still used just shows how far humans have to go as a race. As long as that garbage is shaping political thought we'll never be able to trust a politican. I wouldn't even trust someone who's read it.

So what are you saying here we should start burning books you don't agree with?

Originally posted by mig12
Wait,

if 500 year old politics is shaping the current political scene.....


then IT WAS before its time, and not a piece of #...

It will shape politics forever because it speaks to the true human nature not some Ideal NO ONE lives up too

Hmm.....


Human nature....

Tis garbage, people. Call my statements ignorant all you want. But, this book teaches leaders how to lie and mislead the people it represents. Is it effective, no doubt, but its still garbage. There is no good in it. To me it is of the evil that we debate about every day on this site and the evil that we fight every day in our life. Even if you deny his divinity, you know that Jesus was good and his teachings were just. He did not have to lie to and mislead the people that followed him. It was those that killed him that were the liars and the deceivers. Know what you are reading.



[Edited on 11-4-2004 by Saphronia]

Originally posted by Saphronia
To lie to get into war and then say oops my bad...is completely Machiavellian. The Prince is a piece of horse#. The fact that it is still used just shows how far humans have to go as a race. As long as that garbage is shaping political thought we'll never be able to trust a politican. I wouldn't even trust someone who's read it. [/quote

Saphronia was refering to ethics and virtues folks.

I think the Prince is an incredible look at another way of thinking, but it does advise deceit and harm as tactics for getting and retaining control over a populace.

If that's what ya gotta do....

Machiavelli's work was never intended to be applied to republics, or democracies. It is a work which, as Machiavelli himself said only applied to principalities, or what we call dictatorships in modern times. The Prince does have merit for its historical political impact, but it can hardly be justified in the face of today's modern world. Pure Machiavellian tactics lead to an extremely short life for a state. It's a mind numbingly simplistic book and one of those books that people read to make themselves seem smarter.