Cop Shoots Apparently Helpless Man In The Back (Update: Officer quits to avoid IA questions)

reply to post by taserman


Your post is the perfect example of what IS wrong with this situation.

Yes, I can tell you aren't a cop. Not only that, but you are flat wrong in your remarks. The man in question did not run at him. And as evidenced by MORE THAN ONE video, he was cooperating with them.

This is murder. No doubt. The courts will be forced to make an example out of this joke of a "cop". Because if they don't, here comes the sequel to the LA Rodney King Riots.

reply to post by taserman


I’ll give you that point, it is a likely mistake.

But training is supposed to ready an officer for any sort of situation. Though the gun and the tazer feel different it might be possible. Since they were transit cops and he is only a two year veteran it seems likely this is his first big event with this many people around. It is likely he simply left all his training at the door that night, maybe he should have stayed home.


We do not know all the facts yet, but the video shows the error on the side of the officer. Who knows maybe the officer had not slept well, or was sick? Maybe he knew exactly what he was doing, if so he deserves punishment.


It would be nice to have more of the story though.

Raist

reply to post by Raist


I must disagree here. I can't disagree enough.

Cops are not above the law. In fact, they should be held to an even higher standard. His "mistake" just landed him a capital murder charge.

I'll add something slightly off topic, but this kind of stuff sends me through the roof. My example is much more tame... Anyhow, the other day I was headed to work and I was approaching a stop light. So this cop cuts me off (I'm in the left lane of a four-lane divided boullevard (sp?))... He is off-duty, as evidenced by the fact that he was in his pickup, but had his uniform on... So then he gets to the red light and makes an illegal U-turn on red around the divider... All the while his head bobbing to the noise-abatement violating volume of his stereo.
I actually got out of my car and put my hands in the air. He just smiled.
I wanted to chase him down and beat him down! If he had been on duty he would have written me multiple citations for that exact thing. F-ing above the law pigs!



[edit on 5-1-2009 by Jay-in-AR]

When did some of you just "get used" to the concept that you going to have to stop and give your "papers" or be shot for every minor offense or rowdiness that happens?

Sad really "he ran at the cops" So? They chase you with Guns and Tazers and pull you over and harass people for victim less crimes all the time...

You know we did build this country without check points and stops and searches and wars on contraband and we did a fine job of it, crime has gone up nor down all century as a result of all this.

High time police were given their jobs back... a Cop is supposed to catch Murderers and Rapists and Molesters and Terrorists and other completely Heinous threats to society...

Back in the day speeders would be let go lol, now they spend a Million Bucks and disrupt the whole city...

It's completely out of control, I don't blame the cops I blame all of us for scaring so easy over nothing that we have cops out on the street charged with needing to Physically confront every social situation imaginable

If Cops were returned to being cops not Hall Monitors we wouldn't have these issues

I'd love to know exactly what these kids were doing that actually required a Gun Armed Response on a crowded platform to stop them?

Perhaps... preventing some grafitti or stopping them from firing up a joint? Maybe it was as as simple as yelling "hey no Running"

I'll just say it in simplicity

I don't know what they were doing, horsing around, being rowdy, spraying a wall getting high, riding a skateboard....

Doesn't much matter

In any event it comes down to a simple thing...

Cost to remove spray paint... as an example... 300.00

Cost to incarcerate a kid for 6 months 35,000.00

Cost of Dead kid... a few Million Plus a loss of tax payments over 40 years... and all but the biggest dirt bags are employed at least part of their lives...

Perhaps if they don't care for our lives...

It's time to go over the books and see what the economic consequences of Millions of unemployable people over random bs offenses actually adds up to...

Maybe if they addressed the financial realities they'd see what policing of minutia actually costs society in the long run...

I remember seeing a story a few years back about a man who stole an out of use mail vehicle...

I guesstimated the value of the vehicle at about 25 G Max

Yet the so cal police spent over 3.5 million on the police chase, helicopters and all the rest... cars were wrecked people got hurt,

and ...maybe they can get "IT" when it's numbers not lives...

People do stupid things... spending a few Million revenge or no tolerance money hasn't even budged them from being stupid sometimes...

A guy that takes a truck, isn't evil... he's a dope lol, take his picture from a freeway light and give him a month in jail lol

Don't chase him down kill a few people and spend a few Million Dollars, just buy a new Truck lol...

Damn things are insured anyway...

Domestic violence where there is no injury 90% of the time in arrest, minor drug use, petty theft, theft for survival hunger and... Stupid kid nonsense, stealing something stupid, fights with no hospitalization required...

all these things need to be adjusted downward in terms of importance...


Bigger than all of it is

That the Govt wants us to accept being monitored for Reasons of Terrorism, I have ZERO issue with that...

So long as i'm left alone from normal PRIMATE BEHAVIOR MISTAKES, like J walking or getting high...

Very hard to trust them when they cut you zero slack on stupid bs isn't it?

All boils down too... what need was there to run them down on a closed platform with innocent bystanders... (I don't know) but 90% of the time it's nothing worth it...

Reminds me of the thread on skaters being abused...

Yeah they are grinding the rails on a banister owned by Exxon or someone else lol... they also make a few Billion a year, they can paint the banister lol, no need to run guys with guns out there after this all...

There was no running towards them, that's different guy. It's the first guy who is sitting with his back against the wall who gets shot. Watch the 2nd video before you comment, it has a clear view of the event!!!
Btw, keep your cameras rolling. It's the only effective weapon against pigs in power.

[Edit] www.ktvu.com... In case you didn't notice

[edit on 5/1/2009 by PsykoOps]

reply to post by Jay-in-AR



Go back and read my first post.

As for the one you are replying to read the post I replied to as well.

I was agreeing that it might have been a mistake. I never said it was a right mistake in fact I said training should have shown the difference and how to react.

Raist

reply to post by Raist


"Though the gun and the tazer feel different it might be possible." That is the comment I disagreed with. Cops should always be held to a higher standard. Afterall, they ENFORCE the laws that they are breaking more and more all the time... "Maybe he was confused"? Maybe he shouldn't have chosen to be a cop. It is fairly obvious he can't handle the pressure.

He wouldn't have made a good military man, either. Well, maybe he would have...

[edit on 5-1-2009 by Jay-in-AR]

Actually when was the last time any of you aside from a few have ever held a position of public trust that required you to wear a firearm to defend yourself or another? You seem to think that a large unarmed mob couldn't possibly stand up to an armed officer, so they are right in ganging up. Nice to observe from your safe computer chair. If this is what happened, did this guy deserve to get shot?...no. But put your cophatred back in the box because it is almost as unsightly as the ignorant Israeli-Palestinian bigotry that seems to be infiltrating this site. Once again look at the guy in the opening seconds of the video walking toward the cop and tell me that if you were not in the officer's shoes you wouldn't jack your alert status up.

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


Again I said they feel different. Again I also said his training should have readied him for any situation. I said it might have been possible for a two year “veteran” to have gotten overly excited and grabbed the wrong weapon.

You can disagree with that all you like, but it is a possible scenario. I even stated how they felt different. Again though his training should have given him a better idea as to what he was doing. This guy seemed to even be surprised himself on what he did. I never once agreed with or defended what he did so I am not sure what exactly you are disagreeing with. My posts were pretty clear in saying everything this one did.

This cop needs to be punished for his incompetence or his competent decision. Either way he committed murder.

Raist

reply to post by Raist


Alright, I understand your point a little more clearly now. So long as you agree that it was murder regardless, I don't have a problem with that.

I just don't like to see people comment on what is going to be his logical, and very flimsy, defense. In reality, I don't care WHAT was going through his head. He commited murder. And there is NO justification.

There really isn't even a case.

Found the original ktvu story from youtube. It has both videos on it for better view.

reply to post by djvexd


I was active duty US Army before AND AFTER Sep. 11th, 2001.

I understand quite well the rules of engagement and justifiable response. This cop commited a crime - period.





[edit on 5-1-2009 by Jay-in-AR]

The original vid is confusing, but the youtube vid is very clear. I would like to give the cop the benefit of the doubt, but I really can't see any doubt. The cop murdered that kid.

[edit on 5-1-2009 by rizla]

reply to post by djvexd


Cop hatred? I normally defend officers when others bash them. This case though is all error on this officers side from what we see and know from the video (later that could change).


Each individual is to be seen as just that if one is a threat does not make another a threat. This guy was lying prone with three cops over him two holding him down. The shooting was out of line. This cop could have pulled a tazer or pepper spray and stood watch if he felt threatened by this one individual. But with the other six or more (it is hard to count them all with the shaky videos) cops around it is safe to say anything could have been handle with some small show of force over shooting a guy being held in the prone position.

Raist

I think both Raist and Jay have misunderstood my post. Please read it again. I have been in the same shoes as you and have been in a similar situation although not in the military , Jay. It was WRONG ( IF THE FOOTAGE, which was horrible, IS ACCURATE.) The repeated bashing of officers that have to use force to defend themselves is getting old and that is what these threads normally turn into. That the police and people armed to protect sites and others are some f'in Rambos that only doing it because they want to fire their weapon at someone is getting old and tiresome. Instead of nitpicking my post try looking at where I am coming from, being that you guys are of the same job description. And BTW if the fact that you are taking ,my post as a sweeping generalization especially after me stating that this doesn't include everyone that posted means that there is either an unresolved problem within you or you skimmed the post.

[edit on 5-1-2009 by djvexd]

[edit on 5-1-2009 by djvexd]

reply to post by djvexd


I'll say this much and then I'm done with this thread.

You stated, explicitly, that you would have done the same thing. You would have shot him and that he deserved to be shot...
Now, you TELL ME, how I misunderstood that!! No, nevermind, don't. As I said, I've already stated my mind and I'm off to things that aren't as damned infuriating as the wreckless behavior of a STUPID cop.

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


NO I DID NOT..and for you to say that means you did not read my post . Thank you for proving my point.

It's a big problem isn't it? That so many of us bash the cops...

But what else can happen when the cops enforce rules that lead to altercations over nothing?

There really needs to be a more vocal outcry from within the departments from Cops that they don't wish to enforce some of the more moronic and social offenses out there.

And I know as a fact that there are a wide body of cops here and in Canada that aren't happy being made into Nannies but obviously there is another body at work within the police that enjoys the extra power and feels basic human behavior needs to be controlled.

More than on cop has told me, they don't like being called out to deal with nonsense, nor do they like to send people to Jail over minor infractions and they know the hostility they face is the Fear of a person who just doesn't want to end up in a cage for something frivolous

Basically today the way it is, we all have reason to FEAR the cops, so the reaction they get i negative, 30 years ago a routine traffic stop didn't require 3 squad cars...

That's because that stop might not land you, out of a job, in jail and away from your family for something as simple as an open container... they used to take your keys away and make you get them when you were sober... not so scary...

But this is a vicious circle of us against us and it's moronic already

reply to post by djvexd


You're right. I apologize. I had posted my scathing remarks to taserman and when you asked the question about the uniform thing, I assumed you were the same person, as neither one of you has an avatar of any sort and I had already dismissed taserman's maniacal rantings...

However, I did read your posts. I just confused you with someone else.
Again, I apologize.

I mean holy rebellion in a hand basket Batman... there are places that criminalize baggy jeans... Great reason to provoke a confrontation that leads to a dead kid once in awhile...

The backlash would say, people and "kids today" would go "crazy" without enforcement

But it's untrue, because in a world where kids don't go to jail for carrying on, neither to Parents for spanking their arses when they act out in the first place...