Cop Shoots Apparently Helpless Man In The Back (Update: Officer quits to avoid IA questions)

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posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 07:02 PM
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Video: Calif. Cop Shoots Apparently Helpless Man In The Back


rawstory.com

Two videos showing a San Francisco transit officer fatally shooting an unarmed, cooperating 22-year-old man have surfaced, thanks to a vigilant teen and an anonymous cameraman.

(visit the link for the full news article)



[edit on 5-1-2009 by DimensionalDetective]

Update:

Officer in BART shooting quits force, avoids internal affairs quizzing


The BART police officer who shot an unarmed man to death on the platform of the Fruitvale Station in Oakland early New Year's Day resigned from the force today, avoiding an interview with police internal affairs investigators about the incident.

Officer Johannes Mehserle, 27, was supposed to have been questioned today by internal affairs about why he shot Oscar Grant, 22, of Hayward as Grant lay face down on the station platform, BART spokesman Linton Johnson said.
www.sfgate.com.../c/a/2009/01/07/BA2N155BAH.DTL&tsp=1



[edit on 1/7/09 by FredT]




posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 07:02 PM
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Oh boy...

I will leave this one up to the viewer to draw their own opinion. It appears to be a very chaotic scene.

I'm sure this one will be making the news rounds soon enough...


San Francisco's KTVU aired a second video clip from an anonymous witness. In it, Grant is clearly pinned by two officers and completely immobile. Then, without provocation, the officer at Grant's waist draws his weapon and fires.



rawstory.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 5-1-2009 by DimensionalDetective]



posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 07:08 PM
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Okay, here is the media's coverage of the event. This does not look good:

www.ktvu.com...

Unless this guy has a weapon that is putting the officer's life at risk that we can't see, then there is something eerily wrong with this...



[edit on 5-1-2009 by DimensionalDetective]



posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 07:12 PM
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Just for accuracies sake. The alleged shooting (I say alleged because there has yet to be an investigation) was done by a member of the BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) police and is not affiliated with the SF PD.



posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 07:13 PM
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reply to post by FredT
 


Yeah, they actually changed their original title, and so have I. This could prove to be a high-profile case either way.



posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 07:18 PM
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I wish the video were a little less shaky, it seems nearly all of them are always like that.


Anyway I see no need for that sort of action to be taken. It is obvious there was a little bit of a struggle, how much of it due to the victim is unknown. I have seen people who are friendly and cooperative suddenly go in the opposite direction. It is possible for a person on certain drugs to easily throw ten people off of them due to the adrenaline. I have no evidence of this simply a possibility none of us know for sure. Regardless if he is in the prone position and struggling the most that should have taken place is pepper spray or maybe even a tazer, but the gun shot seems way out in left field.

It seems when it first happens that the cop at the victims head looks up like “what did you just do” even the cop that did the shooting at first seems to be taken back by what he just did. The shooter was a two year “veteran” still relatively new and I am sure his training should still be fresh in his head. Of course this might have been his first real “dangerous” call he responded to and his training went out the door.

I do not see a reason at all for this shooting it seems really out of place. Certainly this is murder in the first from the video. It would be nice to have more background on the story though.

Raist



posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 07:18 PM
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Wow...the report said the officer that fired the shot was a two year veteran...inexperience, adrenaline and perceived threat likely got the better of him. The other uniforms looked stunned and a bit confused,,,

You could see the poor guy sitting closest raise his hands to his face as the officer pulled out his gun and fired...like "OMG what are you doing!?"

very sad for all concerned. Even strict training and psych exams and evaluations can't completely weed out or prepare officers. Examples of officers that should NOT be officers are all over the news.

Sheesh don't they carry tasers???? The officer didn't use a submissive shot either as they are trained to do...take em down not out is how it's supposed to go unless deadly force is absolutely required.

I feel for them all...must have been horrible to see it all happen and be powerless to stop it.



posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 07:23 PM
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excuse my french, but with kids behaving lika a zoo anything can happen,

all i see is arrogant nintendo kids giving the man a hard time.

ofcourse shooting the fellow might have been a bit over the line,


but it put a smile on my face when the kids started shouting.

first they are kings of the concrete boasting and what not but when things acturly get real they act like the children that they are.



posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by justgeneric


Sheesh don't they carry tasers???? The officer didn't use a submissive shot either as they are trained to do...take em down not out is how it's supposed to go unless deadly force is absoluty


What, with all the anti-taser posts you see from nuts on this forum who think the taser is some kind of death ray, you are surprised that more officers don't carry tasers?



posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 07:41 PM
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I am NOT defending the offending officer by any means. You have a fairly large group by the sounds of it getting nasty and closing in on them. Why shouldn't their threat level be raised. Also take a look at the right hand of the guy in the very beginning of the vidoe as he approaches the officers. It looks like he may be cupping a weapon of some sorts possibly a firearm. In the end there is no excuse for discharging a firearm here. This was an adrenaline-fueled accident and the officer I'm sure will be dealt with.



posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 07:43 PM
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Very good point LOL - I can say that I have been tasered by one of the WAY older models (hand held with the conductors at the top and the charge between them) and I was down for 3 minutes...the new fangled one I hear give a heck of a kick worse than I got.

Still I'd rather be tasered that fatally shot in the side.

I would imagine that the Transit Cop training is done by a private company? Or is it done by the police force? Either way...still a sad scenario



posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 07:48 PM
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Hmm, I wonder if this will result in the Greek events after that 15 year old was shot...



posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 07:49 PM
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Ok, saw the video. This entire news story and thread is ridiculous.

The video doesn't even show the guy getting shot, the camera is pointed down at the ground when he is shot. You can clearly see and hear though that he is shot while he is on the ground resiting arrest and clearly trying to grab something out of his pockets, which could have been a dangerous weapon. Not only that but a bit earlier in the video you could see this man running straight at the cops in the video, before he gets tackled down!

Sorry but I award this dumbass a darwin award. He deserved to get shot. You don't just run at police, and then when they tackle you, you don't squirm around trying to struggle and grab something out of your shirt. Especially after you just issued verbal threats such as "[snip] the police" and "death to pigs" which can be clearly heard several times in the video.


Add to the fact that thees officers were surrounded by a large mob of people, ALL of them issuing verbal threats and moving closer and closer, I would be afraid for my life too and a bit on edge.



Any way, I would have shot and killed this guy too if he was doing that to me, and I'm not even a cop. Darwin took care of this genius's gene pool.




[edit on 5-1-2009 by taserman]

[edit on 5-1-2009 by taserman]


Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 9-1-2009 by 12m8keall2c]



posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 07:50 PM
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A person close to the investigation told the San Francisco Chronicle that BART officials are looking into the possibility that the officer thought he was firing a Taser and pulled out his gun by mistake.


Well, there is the defense.

As weak as that defense is, I am gonna bet the farm that it will hold up in court and the officer will go scot free.



posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 07:53 PM
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Originally posted by clay2 baraka

A person close to the investigation told the San Francisco Chronicle that BART officials are looking into the possibility that the officer thought he was firing a Taser and pulled out his gun by mistake.


Well, there is the defense.

As weak as that defense is, I am gonna bet the farm that it will hold up in court and the officer will go scot free.


Perfectly fine defense.

Put yourself in the officer's shoes. You are surrounded by a large mob of people who hate you and are issuing verbal threats against your life, one of them runs at you (whom a fellow officer tackles to the ground). While that man is tackled to the ground, he starts violently resisting arrest and tried to pull something from his shirt which could be used to kill you.

Your adrenaline is pumping, heart is racing, you can't hear or concentrate because of the large mob making so much noise around you ... do you think it's possible you could pull the wrong thing off your belt (a belt which has at least 30 different things on it?)



posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 07:55 PM
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Nope.

Where I live the cops carry the tasers on the front of the belts, gun toward the back. Tasers are smaller and lighter than a 9mm too.

Welcome to ATS by the way, glad this issue brought you into our community.


[edit on 1/5/2009 by clay2 baraka]

[edit on 1/5/2009 by clay2 baraka]



posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 07:56 PM
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I'd almost agree with that taserman...the officer did look pretty damn surprised (what i could tell by body and head movements on the shaky vid).

Adrenaline can cloud thinking that is for damn sure and this was a highly stressful situation clearly. Hopefully it was a tragic accident.

darwin awards...I love it...you just never know though...



posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by taserman
 


Normally I defend the actions of officers but in this case I cannot. I understand these are not regular cops but in this case we will put them in that category, though it is likely their training is even less than a normal cop.


If you watch the video long enough you see another angle from a camera phone. This portion of the video shows that the victim is sitting against the wall and then placed in the prone position (face down) with some amount of struggling. He has three cops over him; at the most pepper spray of a tazer is what he should have gotten. The gun shot was far out in left field, even the officers seem in shock of what just took place. The officer also could have hit his partners at that close of proximity with a struggle going on his gun was at head level with the other officers.

This is nothing more than a rookie (two years as a transit cop) freaking out.

Sorry but the gun shot is out of place.

Raist



posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 08:01 PM
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Originally posted by taserman
Ok, saw the video. This entire news story and thread is ridiculous.

The video doesn't even show the guy getting shot, the camera is pointed down at the ground when he is shot.


I'm not trying to bust your chops, but did you watch the whole video? Yes, one scene shows the camera to the ground by one angle, but there was a second angle where we see the event from a whole different angle.

Again....just saying.

Edit for spelling error.

[edit on 5-1-2009 by TARBOX]



posted on Jan, 5 2009 @ 08:06 PM
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The cop messed up. I think the cop that did the shooting can be seen holstering his gun and then bring both hands to his head. What a tragic mistake.


link to second video






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